Metro: Last Light Released for Linux on Steam

However, if you're going to use these games, you're better off using them on GNU/Linux rather than on Microsoft Windows.

Richard Stallman

The man knows the nuances.
And I think about an important difference betwee GoG and Steam;)

I've downloaded the game and started playing it. Haven't played it on Windows but it seems to me there are missing effects. I suppose it should have depth of field, ambient occlusion, motion blur and other but I didn't spot any of those. Also the video settings menu is stripped down.

It is not that it looks bad but the Linux version seems inferior.

However, if you're going to use these games, you're better off using them on GNU/Linux rather than on Microsoft Windows.

Richard Stallman

The man knows the nuances.
And I think about an important difference betwee GoG and Steam;)

I think he was comparing using DRMed games on Windows to using DRMed games on Linux. If those are compared, he said Linux is preferable, since Windows itself restricts users even more (not to mention that Windows always has built in own DRM).

I don't think he compared DRM free games (let's say Windows versions run in Wine on Linux), to DRMed ones run on Linux. So what he said doesn't apply to GOG vs Steam arguments IMHO.

@shmerl
Sure, same priority here.
All I'm saying is: Voting with your wallet has the great advantage of providing more fine grained answers than just "yes" and "no".

No freedom to lend it to a friend? Minus 5$.
(As long as DRM doesn't come as malware or has any negative impact on my system of course)

And Hey! No disrespect for Stallman please! :) He's right, it's unethical.

Yeah, because Stallman also believes in a lot of weird things, such as child porn not being child porn in some cases etc. Yes he was a visionary at the time, but his stances are a bit too far for me. Just my two cents on that issue.


http://www.arnnet.com.au/article/361173/online_only_richard_stallman_-_no_censorship_good_censorship/

That's an admirable stance, but not one I can get behind, sorry. It's a little too Stallman for me. If you take that stance and apply it to everything in your life you'll be giving up a fair list of things. In fact, off the top of my head: every console, Steam, some Desura, all Apple products, most Android products (unless you bypass Play and take your chance on the malware infested third party appstores), every Bluray disk, BBC iPlayer, Netflix, Lovefilm (pretty much every online film repository bar Youtube), most DVD's (the ones encoded with CSS certainly, and good luck knowing which are before you buy them), most e-books and certainly anything to do with Kindle. There's probably lot of other examples, but most of that list affects me directly.

In fact, about the only thing that isn't governed by DRM digitally these days is music. And probably that only because of radio stations.

So, yeah, pretty admirable. But not for me. I like a balance, and a little DRM is acceptable provided it in no way gets in my way. And for me, Steam doesn't.

That's what I do :) I reject DRM in general. DVDs are an exception, since that DRM is obsolete essentially, so I don't consider that to be DRM really. libdvdcss is anyway the only way to play DVDs on Linux. Blurays? Never used those, I think they are irrelevant since disks are dying out anyway.

Apple? Oh, horror, I don't even come near that for many other reasons besides DRM. Netflix? No go (clear DRM which even aggressively attempts to push it into HTML standard - even more reasons to reject it). E-books? I buy DRM free only (no Kindle or anything like that). There are DRM free e-books available, the situation is much better than movies which are limited to DVDs mostly.

I don't use Android for mobile, but not so much out of DRM concerns, but because I prefer proper glibc mobile Linux (Harmattan, Nemo, upcoming Sailfish and so on, but that's another story).

So, obviously I don't buy any games with DRM as well.

I don't really think it's extreme - it's the only way to actually vote with your wallet, since if you are indifferent, DRM only strives more.

Please note that I am in no way making fun of you, or saying you are wrong.

What OS do you use? Is it free (as in Stallman)? If not, it technically has DRM/Non-free software. Now away from that.

Imagine this, someone decides to live using only products 100% made (components included) in the United States. Now they give up their car, television, phone, appliances,and every other modern convince they own. As you can probably guess, this doesn't work out so well, which brings me to my conclusion. 

Granted DRM isn't exactly the same as the scenario above, but it's impossible to live in the modern world without DRM. Sure, you can use all the DRM free content/software you want, but let's face it, most of the time that software is barely passable compared to the DRM'd alternatives. 

If someone chooses to live their lives DRM free that's fine by me, but the best products in terms of usability use DRM. Why? Because if someone creates something, they want to make money on it. And without DRM, the only way to make money is by the honor system.

If you wish to share a product, that doesn't help the developers. Granted I love sharing, I can see where developers are coming from.

In an ideal world, where software is free and sharable by all, DRM wouldn't exist. But for now, the closet one can get is The Pirate Bay. All the software is "free," and you can share it as much as you like, but does that really help anyone in the end?*

*Yes I understand that my avatar is from TPB, but please know I pay for every piece of software/games I use/play. I just believe in the power of free and open information.

I know this post was long, but can we please get back to the real news here? A Triple-A Gaming Title was released on Linux. Whether you will buy it or not, just know that this is great news for Linux.

it's impossible to live in the modern world without DRM.

This is completely besides the point; just because it's impossible to do something 100% doesn't mean it's foolish to even try.

It's impossible to live completely vegan, without profiting from any exploitation of animals. The majority of people would say vegan alternatives pale in comparison to "the real thing". Yet you'll find people living as vegan as possible, and while I'm not one of them (I'm a happy omnivore, so not even a vegetarian), I still find it laudable in principle.

Likewise, it's not possible living in our societies without contributing to global warming and the general wasteful exploitation of resources, third-world countries and people. That doesn't mean you shouldn't try to keep your carbon footprint low; that doesn't mean projects like the Fair Mouse are stupid.

For anyone who's bought this game, can you try to see if you actually CAN run the game without Steam, straight from the installation folder? You can do this with a bunch of Steam-exclusive games, like the entire Half-Life 2 series. If Last Light runs without Steam, I'll buy it in a heartbeat.

it's impossible to live in the modern world without DRM.

This is completely besides the point; just because it's impossible to do something 100% doesn't mean it's foolish to even try.

It's impossible to live completely vegan, without profiting from any exploitation of animals. The majority of people would say vegan alternatives pale in comparison to "the real thing". Yet you'll find people living as vegan as possible, and while I'm not one of them (I'm a happy omnivore, so not even a vegetarian), I still find it laudable in principle.

Likewise, it's not possible living in our societies without contributing to global warming and the general wasteful exploitation of resources, third-world countries and people. That doesn't mean you shouldn't try to keep your carbon footprint low; that doesn't mean projects like the Fair Mouse are stupid.

I agree. But no matter what I try, it always feels like a losing battle.

n30p1r4t3: DrMcCoy expressed it well. One should try as much as possible, so the argument that 100% isn't possible is not really useful. DRM is like unethical pollution. You should avoid its proliferation with each opportunity.

I disagree with your idea that DRM is needed to make money. DRM is useless, since it doesn't prevent piracy. In practice DRM is only used for nefarious purposes - controlling the user, controlling the technology, controlling the market and so on. And then you should think about derivatives of DRM, such as DMCA 1201 and other such junk, which are even more evil. Unlike DRM, closed / non free software is by far not always used for nefarious purposes just because it's closed. But DRM - always, really, since DRM has no sensible and ethical reason to ever be used.

I never really encountered a situation when DRMed product had higher quality and usability than alternative DRM free one. The presence of DRM itself is equal to crippling of usability of the product, and therefore it always means reduced quality.

I knew someone would bring up the issue of Steam/DRM/nonfree software/Stallman. That's alright. Stallman is a true visionary and I respect him for standing up for his principles. Personally, I subscribe to the theory of maximizing utility while trying to minimize reliance on nonfree software. That's why I use Mint. I find it gives me a good balance between being stuck in closed Microsoft hell and Stallman's free choices like gNewSense. Here's my favorite quote from Stallman's article:

Thus, in direct practical terms, this development can do both harm and good. It might encourage GNU/Linux users to install these games, and it might encourage users of the games to replace Windows with GNU/Linux. My guess is that the direct good effect will be bigger than the direct harm.

That's the main point right there. Steam does more good for us than harm. Steam for Linux makes Linux adoption more viable, which hopefully will spread it's use, which will get people more involved in the use, development, and funding of free software. It'll get more people to oppose nonfree software. But in practical terms, Steam for Linux will finally allow us to wipe all Microsoft software from our computers, and that my friends, is a victory.

Wow, Dima, that quote makes Stallman sound like a reasonable guy. And "reasonable" isn't a word I tend to associate with him. He's very, very black and white on most issues and I find a lot of his views extremely unpalatable. Check his website for examples, of which there are many.

Totally agree though with your/his view though. Wouldn't it be great to see Steam help get to the point where Ubuntu (or Linux generally) is commanding a fair proportion of games-playing market share? At that point, those users have a voice. And if they vote with their wallet then, they'll have a viable impact on sales and can actually drive change. Right now, if you vote with your wallet, you won't be heard. You won't even be noticed.

Even if you don't like the guy, or don't have the conviction to truly act by what he says is right, it's hard to argue with him. He's right, patronizing nonfree software IS bad for us... I think it's even worse for us than for Windows/Mac users who aren't even aware of what they're doing. It's possible to argue that us Linux users should know better.

So, even though I believe in free software, I still use nonfree software when the alternative doesn't stack up. But my list is growing shorter every day. I'll give you a great world example that happened to me today.. so I'm working on my masters and we're required to use statistical analysis software to explain our research. The industry standard is SPSS, and there's a 14 day trial available on their website. I figured.. fine.. this is important I'll do it, but the download was 800 mbs... so I started it and thought maybe there's a free alternative? Guess what I find... PSPP by the GNU Project. A 30mb free open source download that pretty much does the same thing.. I got PSPP up and running even before my SPSS download was halfway finished. Maybe for more serious analysis something like SPSS might be preferred, but I'm perfectly happy doing my analyses in PSPP and reporting the results in LibreOffice. Really the only reason I'm still using Windows is because of games.. hopefully that'll change soon.

In an ideal world DRM free would be great. Unfortunately we don't live in an ideal world. It's laudable to strive for it though, so keep striving if that's what turns you on.

As for Steam being bad, then that's nonsense. If there was no Steam I wouldn't be playing 'Metro: Last Light' (remember that, what this thread's supposed to be about) on Linux. I am and I love it. So... playing the game or the game not existing for Linux... hmmm, tough one. If there was no Steam on Linux then there'd be no game, end of. No DRM version and no DRM free version, nothing. If you don't like DRM, great (does any customer actually LIKE DRM? Think about it) but I don't want to hear your opinion of it on a thread for a game you have no intention of playing! Start your own thread about it.

And if Steam were to do an Android with SteamOS, then so what? You'll still have your flavour of Linux exactly as it was before SteamOS but with better graphic drivers and more users. You'll also have more CHOICE of games and more game developers. YOU will have lost nothing. I will have gained lots. Everyone's a winner.

Wow, Dima, that quote makes Stallman sound like a reasonable guy. And "reasonable" isn't a word I tend to associate with him. He's very, very black and white on most issues and I find a lot of his views extremely unpalatable. Check his website for examples, of which there are many.

What Stallman says usually sounds reasonable, in contrast to what other people say he said.
He also isn't black/white at all.
On multiple occasions he explixitly acknowledges the difference between the philosophical truth of an idea and its practicability.
He just doesn't accept some compromises, namely the notion that convenience was a criteria for practicability.

So you shouldn't accept tolerate Steam's DRM just because it is more convenient but because you weighted the good Steam brings vs the bad.
Boycotting Ubisoft or EA for example is a completely different decision although based on the same premises.

Also, as soon as you realize that RMS is just a pretty flawless logic machine, not accepting any social boundaries that might hinder the clarity of his thought-process, you'll like him a lot more

So you shouldn't accept tolerate Steam's DRM just because it is more convenient but because you weighted the good Steam brings vs the bad.

I'm genuinely interested to know what you consider is "the bad" about Steam. In particular, what is bad about Steam's implementation of DRM.

Cheers.

So you shouldn't accept tolerate Steam's DRM just because it is more convenient but because you weighted the good Steam brings vs the bad.
Boycotting Ubisoft or EA for example is a completely different decision although based on the same premises.

No, I don't personally accept that. It's definitely about convenience for me. Steam has DRM, which is technically bad, but I don't notice it. At all. Ever. And if do, ever, notice it, then I'll re-evaluate whether Steam is good or bad. At the moment, it's all good. Everything about Steam is good, for me :
1. Prices are reasonable, sales are incredible.
2. Downloads are fast, really fast.
3. Updates are automatic.

There are literally (again I'll stress "for me") no downsides. 

YMMV, I accept that.

Oh, and Stallman is very black and white on his website, which is what I base my information on. There is no middle ground with his views there. Don't have children. Don't use WEP or WPA on your WIFI. Don't give money to beggars. There's a lot of very hard black/white views on there and he endorses those views by using his name as the website. It's his website.

The problem with DRM, especially on Linux, is that it adds to the already virulent notion that unfree software is the legit norm, while free software is the abomination, possibly illegal.
That's no paranoid exaggeration. It's actually a widespread belief that Linux is illegal because it is libre, to a degree that people threaten to call the police if you promote it.

=> For example

After confiscating the [Linux] disks I called a confrence with the student and that is how I came to discover you and your organization. Mr. Starks, [...] I cannot either support your efforts or allow them to happen in my classroom. At this point, I am not sure what you are doing is legal. No software is free and spreading that misconception is harmful.

That's what we're dealing with and it's a huge damage to society. Every DRM getting our "Legit-Stamp" add to this.

For me personally and practically, the main problem is that the software on Steam is linked to an account. I can't just lend it to someone else or resell it after I played through.
Especially here in Germany we have a problem with the censorship of any display of violence against humans.
Now if a gamer in the US wanted to "gift" me the uncensored US version, we'd better take care that Steam doesn't get wind of it or two bans will follow.

That takes off quite a bit of my freedom to decide what's happening in my computer.

All that said, like with lying, it's tolerable to a degree, for example to avoid cheating in multiplayers, but the principle ethics of it being inherently wrong stays untouched by practical considerations. Ethics always comes first.

If it's okay for you, I'd like to have the further DRM debate on a forum thread dedicated to it, because I feel we are moving away from the original topic too much. If you have opinions about DRM you would like to share, please post them onto this thread: http://www.gamingonlinux.com/forum/topic/456.

Apologies Samsai :'(

@Caldazar - I have replied on the new thread linked to above.

On topic.... played a bit more today. Set governor to performance and graphical slider to about 66% for best experience here. Can't comment on what effects might be missing or dumbed down for the Linux version as I haven't played the Windows version. I find the game immersive and fun and quite easy (which is what I like personally).

only thing that seems to be missing is the Tesselation

http://www.overclock.net/t/1439965/metro-last-light-windows-vs-linux-graphics-comparison