I saw quite a few people upset that Carmageddon: Reincarnation's early access release is Windows only despite them hitting the Linux stretch goal in their previous crowdfunding campaign. So, I decided to quiz them on it.
I spoke to Jason Garber the Publishing Director of Carmageddon: Reincarnation.
Before he answered my questions, he did state this:
Question time for Jason Garber!
You stated on twitter to us that there is no Linux version in early access because the PC (Windows) version is not done, is it a lot of work to port your in-house engine to Linux?
Will you be putting out early Linux versions once the Windows version is finished for Linux gamers to help test like you have done for Windows users?
For Linux gamers who don't want to use Steam, will the game be available elsewhere upon Linux release?
Are you planning DLC for the future, or will it be more like free content patches?
How many cars are you planning for the full release?
How are you planning to deal with potential censorship in different regions?
How do you and your team feel about SteamOS, do you think it will help to push Linux?
Even though you didn't hit the split-screen stretch goal on Kickstarter, will it be added in future?
Big thanks to Jason for answering!
So, there you have it folks they are focusing on Windows due to business decisions as it's of course right now still #1 for gamers.
We need to keep pushing up our numbers to get Linux closer to the front of development, one day...one day. Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
I spoke to Jason Garber the Publishing Director of Carmageddon: Reincarnation.
Before he answered my questions, he did state this:
Jason GarberJust to reiterate, we focus on development on PC versions due to the simple fact of business. Both on development/qa as sales, however we do not shy away from delivering a linux version in the end, we just planned it as a port once finished.
Question time for Jason Garber!
You stated on twitter to us that there is no Linux version in early access because the PC (Windows) version is not done, is it a lot of work to port your in-house engine to Linux?
QuoteYes, we have to concentrate on the PC version before we port to any other platform. We assured the Backers that they would have a Linux version – but I disagree that we failed to say it would be coming later, it’s been stated every time the question has been asked that it will come later on.
Will you be putting out early Linux versions once the Windows version is finished for Linux gamers to help test like you have done for Windows users?
QuoteIt's quite possible we would approach it in that way. But we’d hope that Linux, as a port rather than a process of full game development, would be a more linear and (dare I say it) straightforward process that won’t involve the level of player testing that is useful to us while we still develop the full game.
For Linux gamers who don't want to use Steam, will the game be available elsewhere upon Linux release?
QuoteThere will be DRM free version of the game. It’s not unreasonable to think that the DRM free version would be available for Linux. Not knowing whether there are any potential technical ramifications to this, I can’t say that is a definitive answer though.
Are you planning DLC for the future, or will it be more like free content patches?
QuoteThere's a plan to continue to create content for the game beyond the “final release” of the game in late 2014. We feel that it’s appropriate for the title, and we want to keep adding to it in response to the feedback from players. We have assured our Kickstarter Backers that they will get all of the content that we make for the game, in perpetuity.
How many cars are you planning for the full release?
QuoteGetting on for thirty – we will just continue to add vehicles up to final release.
How are you planning to deal with potential censorship in different regions?
QuoteWe don’t expect it to be an issue.
How do you and your team feel about SteamOS, do you think it will help to push Linux?
QuoteI don’t really think that end users will give much thought to the underlying OS – they will be focussing on the Steam aspect, rather than the Linux underpinnings. IMO.
Even though you didn't hit the split-screen stretch goal on Kickstarter, will it be added in future?
QuoteIt's already implemented! And it’ll be available as soon as we do the Multiplayer update to the game.
Big thanks to Jason for answering!
So, there you have it folks they are focusing on Windows due to business decisions as it's of course right now still #1 for gamers.
We need to keep pushing up our numbers to get Linux closer to the front of development, one day...one day. Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
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I know... I know what he's trying to say, but it comes out so wrong. "we have to concentrate on the PC version before we port to any other platform" literally means Windows, Linux and other PC OS versions before console, Android, etc. but he's using both "PC" and "platform" to mean "Windows". It's so wrong and not even unusual! :(
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but he's using both "PC" and "platform" to mean "Windows". It's so wrong and not even unusual! :(
Well to be fair, so does Valve/Steam. In fact, to the general world "PC == Windows". It's just how it is. :/
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I know... I know what he's trying to say, but it comes out so wrong. "we have to concentrate on the PC version before we port to any other platform" literally means Windows, Linux and other PC OS versions before console, Android, etc. but he's using both "PC" and "platform" to mean "Windows". It's so wrong and not even unusual! :(
Yeah my Linux PC is a Personal Computer too!
Nevertheless, still happy it will come to Linux one day but I find it strange they will need to port it. I think it would've be better to concentrate on a cross platform engine from the start if you state from the start it will be available for all platforms.
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Hi all Linux Zealots,
Jason Garber future employee of EA... I run all my Linux distros on a toaster... No wait it's a Personal Computer - also known as a PC.
Gratefully puts his away wallet so as to not fund assholes... Is it just me or does this guy come over as a total d*ckhead... :-(
Bob
Jason Garber future employee of EA... I run all my Linux distros on a toaster... No wait it's a Personal Computer - also known as a PC.
Gratefully puts his away wallet so as to not fund assholes... Is it just me or does this guy come over as a total d*ckhead... :-(
Bob
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And there you have it. Money first....just like every other windows first dev.
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Well, they always said that Linux support would come after the Windows version, but it does seem a little strange to ask for funding for a multi-platform engine and then port it after you're done.
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"It's quite possible we would approach it in that way. But we’d hope that Linux, as a port rather than a process of full game development, would be a more linear and (dare I say it) straightforward process that won’t involve the level of player testing that is useful to us while we still develop the full game."
This quote bothers me. So they are making this game on Windows only right now, but they just hope that the port to Linux is going to be easy for them. I am wondering if they have done their studies on those plugins they have used to make this game. Did they check that those plugins are multiplatform? I can see this is going to be a disaster.
"I don’t really think that end users will give much thought to the underlying OS – they will be focussing on the Steam aspect, rather than the Linux underpinnings. IMO."
This is sad but most likely true. Most "Console people" dont really care about what the core of their system is running. Its like how i told my friend that his PS4 is running FreeBSD. He was like "Uhh whats that?". I myself love knowing what any of my systems run.
Sheep i tell you... Sheep.
This quote bothers me. So they are making this game on Windows only right now, but they just hope that the port to Linux is going to be easy for them. I am wondering if they have done their studies on those plugins they have used to make this game. Did they check that those plugins are multiplatform? I can see this is going to be a disaster.
"I don’t really think that end users will give much thought to the underlying OS – they will be focussing on the Steam aspect, rather than the Linux underpinnings. IMO."
This is sad but most likely true. Most "Console people" dont really care about what the core of their system is running. Its like how i told my friend that his PS4 is running FreeBSD. He was like "Uhh whats that?". I myself love knowing what any of my systems run.
Sheep i tell you... Sheep.
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First of all, can we all stop harping on the "PC means more than Windows" thing? Yes, you're right, Linux runs on PCs, but the fact is that the industry uses the term "PC" to mean Windows, not Mac, not Linux, not BSD, not BeOS, not Amiga, not anything other than Windows... Literally NOTHING about this situation would change had Jason simply said "Windows" instead of "PC." Instead, we look like a bunch of whiny know-it-all ingrates. Focus on the important shit, not the stupid minutiae like this.
Secondly, they were pretty clear in their Kickstarter update that the Mac and Linux versions would be ports:
And finally, even though the date has slipped, they did tell us in the same update that the Mac and Linux ports would not ship at the same time as Windows:
The fact that there's no Linux early access should come as no surprise to anyone. We were told up-front.
Secondly, they were pretty clear in their Kickstarter update that the Mac and Linux versions would be ports:
So, we’ve been doing the work here to assess how much it would cost us to port our technology and then the games to these OS’s’s.
So, we are willing to commit to porting the game to both Mac and Linux, if we reach:
$600,000!
And finally, even though the date has slipped, they did tell us in the same update that the Mac and Linux ports would not ship at the same time as Windows:
And, like the DRM free version, the shipping date for these versions will be further out, towards the end of 2013.
The fact that there's no Linux early access should come as no surprise to anyone. We were told up-front.
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Yeah, they were pretty open about the delayed release with the backers, as well a the schedule slip. I'm not in love with "PC" = "Windows" either, but adolson has a good point about tact.
I don't know anyone here in the community that enjoys self-censoring = not even our own Benevolent Dictator for Life), but we have to realize that we've now got people's attention. People whose attention we've been seeking, such as devs and representatives of digital distributors. There's noting wrong with carefully selecting our words, knowing that folks are coming to peer in at us periodically.
In fact, I think McCoy's comment is his most tactful (and funniest) version of that same comment I've ever seen from him (kudos, McCoy! You got a chuckle out of me).
Our challenge is to keep our message hard-hitting and honest (as usual) without coming off mindlessly pedantic and entitled.
Even if we _are_ GabeN's chosen people ;)
I don't know anyone here in the community that enjoys self-censoring = not even our own Benevolent Dictator for Life), but we have to realize that we've now got people's attention. People whose attention we've been seeking, such as devs and representatives of digital distributors. There's noting wrong with carefully selecting our words, knowing that folks are coming to peer in at us periodically.
In fact, I think McCoy's comment is his most tactful (and funniest) version of that same comment I've ever seen from him (kudos, McCoy! You got a chuckle out of me).
Our challenge is to keep our message hard-hitting and honest (as usual) without coming off mindlessly pedantic and entitled.
Even if we _are_ GabeN's chosen people ;)
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On the one hand, I find myself wanting to correct "PC is Windows" all the time. On the other hand, I have little more than sneering contempt for people who try to make me say GNU/Linux as if the label had any importance outside their little bubble.
I guess it's weird seeing that petty aspect of yourself reflected back.
The only argument for continuing the crusade is awareness. That, and it's seriously tedious to have to ask every Kickstarter dev under the sun what they mean by "PC, Mac". <sigh>
For my part, I'll no longer support a kickstarter that doesn't support Linux on day 1 release. And that's a big change for a guy like myself, hundreds (over a thousand? maybe) of pounds invested in Kickstarter and Indiegogo, and a member of the TFC team. A real shame.
I guess it's weird seeing that petty aspect of yourself reflected back.
The only argument for continuing the crusade is awareness. That, and it's seriously tedious to have to ask every Kickstarter dev under the sun what they mean by "PC, Mac". <sigh>
For my part, I'll no longer support a kickstarter that doesn't support Linux on day 1 release. And that's a big change for a guy like myself, hundreds (over a thousand? maybe) of pounds invested in Kickstarter and Indiegogo, and a member of the TFC team. A real shame.
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In fact, I think McCoy's comment is his most tactful (and funniest) version of that same comment I've ever seen from him
That's only because I've set the bar for tactfulness pretty low. :P
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Folks, I've just sent messages (and left comments in some cases) to all the KS Projects I've supported with Linux stretch goals (and some that promised it from the get to) reminding them that we're not happy with these fudged (if not totally broken) promises from people like Jensen (after reading a few things on the updates I wasn't surprised that she "mumphed-mumphed" about the Linux release). We need to remind KS projects that just because they got their funding they don't get to just rest on their successful backing as some have done in the past. We'll be ignore if we allow it. So I suggest a big fuss (and poor PR) on those who just ignore money they've taken (as is happening here but it needs to go beyond this site), and remind those who haven't released the game that we are watching and while we are still a small group, we are growing and we know how to make noise.
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a) Technical ramifications to being DRM free? Generally there are technical ramifications to including DRM, not to leaving it out. I'm highly suspicious of that comment.As long as I remembered from Kickstarter campaign they want to use Steamworks for multiplayer so DRM-free version might looks crippled and this will also split player base into two independent groups.
It's one of reasons why some other games don't released as DRM-free and creating/supporting of own multiplayer service can be challenging for any game developer because it's cost money.
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so if anyone tried it on windows, does they have good OpenGL support or is more DirectX oriented?
If they have done good openGL and SDL, etc. then they are mostly there. If not I guess they can hire Icculus ...
If they have done good openGL and SDL, etc. then they are mostly there. If not I guess they can hire Icculus ...
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As long as I remembered from Kickstarter campaign they want to use Steamworks for multiplayer so DRM-free version might looks crippled and this will also split player base into two independent groups.
Not so crippled:
DRM THIS!: As well as the Steam version, all $15 pledgers will be offered a DRM-free, caffeine free, gluten free, born free non-Steam version of the PC game to download. This version will have no Steamworks functionality and will support single player and LAN multiplayer only.
A version that can't be played offline looks more crippled to me.
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so if anyone tried it on windows, does they have good OpenGL support or is more DirectX oriented?At moment it's using Direct3D with D3D10 feature level used, but some bits inside executable show that engine have OpenGL renderer.
Game also don't use any middleware that might cause problems with porting.
A version that can't be played offline looks more crippled to me.Might be for you, but most of people fine about Steam because it's can run games offline. In same time inability to use online multiplayer it's kind a sad.
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A version that can't be played offline looks more crippled to me.Might be for you, but most of people fine about Steam because it's can run games offline. In same time inability to use online multiplayer it's kind a sad.
I'm not starting another DRM war. They promised both DRM-free and Steam versions and this is what I demand. DRM is an anti-feature and I won't believe in any technical excuse that forces it's implementation.
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Focusing on one platform and porting it afterwards is much harder than writing software for cross-platform usage from the beginning.
Just why do I always get headaches if I hear a game-dev talking about something related to software development?
plx uninstall ... :P
Just why do I always get headaches if I hear a game-dev talking about something related to software development?
plx uninstall ... :P
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They promised both DRM-free and Steam versions and this is what I demand. DRM is an anti-feature and I won't believe in any technical excuse that forces it's implementation.They promised DRM-free to Kickstarter backers and not anyone else. ;)
I just explained reason why they might decide to not sell DRM-free version publicly.
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