I got an interesting email from Michael A. Marks the technical director for Aspyr Media who built his own steambox and ran some OpenGL tests with interesting results.
Before you read too far into it just bear in mind that Michael knows what he is talking about given he's worked on some AAA titles like Call of Duty & Civilization in the porting process from DirectX to OpenGL.
Benchmarks:
Not noted in his article is that these tests where done on Ubuntu 14.04 LTS with Nvidia 331.79 and AMD 14.6 beta drivers which I managed to get after talking with Michael for a bit. So, it's a recent Linux distribution with recent drivers.
The benchmark used is this tool on github for reference in-case anyone else wanted to give it a go if they have different cards laying around. I would be very interested in seeing results from others.
That's a MASSIVE gap in performance between two providers, considering the AMD card is much more expensive too I didn't think it would be that big a gap. AMD only wins once and although it's a big gap on that one, it utterly fails at everything else. It's not like the AMD card is new either, so it cannot be blamed on drivers playing catch-up with hardware as it's ~8 months old.
Michael A. MarksThis breaks my heart. You present a talk in March of 2013 telling me about all the cool new features, present a bunch of performance graphs, and in reality: ‘it’s completely broken on AMD’
You have to assume AMD knew the talk didn’t apply to Linux in March. The alternative that they weren’t aware is even more heart-breaking. Full results are included in another post on OpenGL.
It's a sad state to be in and I really hope AMD pull it out and get their heads down on pushing OpenGL performance, but while they are so busy with Mantle, do they care? I wouldn't think so, they might care if SteamOS takes off in the way that a lot of people hope it does otherwise people will steer clear of them.
I am optimistic for the future of Linux gaming given how fast games are being pumped out for us, but I just like everyone else want hardware vendors to look at us just as serious as game developers are starting to. I know a lot of people are quick to come to AMD's defence for their open source driver effort, but results are results.
I seriously look forward to the day I can write a headline along the lines of "AMD kicks Nvidia's arse". Bring it on AMD the ball is in your court.
Source article "OpenGL Stop Breaking My Heart" Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
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Quoting: neffoThat's not true. AMD is superior on Windows.Quoting: Gentleman SquidI just wish they supported their cards in Linux a lot more. Been like this for too long. Performance with NVidia and Linux has been smoother for a while now.It's not just Linux they are doing a terrible job on, it's also terrible on Windows (in OpenGL). idTech5 engines for example.
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I'd like to see that benchmark being done with the FOSS drivers, I don't think the results be this cut and dry.
The FOSS drivers should be the only ones that matter anyway, if you use proprietary drivers you might as well run Windows.
The FOSS drivers should be the only ones that matter anyway, if you use proprietary drivers you might as well run Windows.
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Quoting: tmtvlI'd like to see that benchmark being done with the FOSS drivers, I don't think the results be this cut and dry.
The FOSS drivers should be the only ones that matter anyway, if you use proprietary drivers you might as well run Windows.
I will be doing more FOSS radeon benchmarks very soon to coincide with mesa 10.2
Also it's very true that radeon MUST also be tested in these sort of benchmarks.
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Note that this so called NVidia performance (in absolutely artificial benchmarks, not actual games) is only achieved by having a tumor of privative code running kernelside.
I say no thanks, my AMD card runs all my Steam Linux games just fine with Mesa3d.
I say no thanks, my AMD card runs all my Steam Linux games just fine with Mesa3d.
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ATI/AMD drivers have always performed badly. I remember the happy day when they released their first linux driver, but I soon realized that they really didn't care about linux and switched to nvidia. Though they have made some progress. Now days you can actually install the driver and it works with out the community having to patch it first.
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FutureSuture May 31, 2014
People always complain about AMD's proprietary driver but those same people who complain don't ever seem to talk about AMD's open source driver, almost as if it does not exist to them. These folks do know that AMD offers 2 drivers and that if the proprietary driver doesn't do it for them, they should first try the open source driver before flipping out and switching to Nvidia, right?
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Quoting: Anonymousamd sucks. I hope they go out of business. I really do.
I agree with others, if they go out of bussiness, Nvidia has nothing to worry about, I mean, Intel isn't exactly a beast when it comes to graphics cards.
I say vote with your wallet, don't buy AMD for Linux systems, if the Steam machines kick off they might see that they are loosing some market.
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FutureSuture May 31, 2014
Quoting: stormaOh, please let this be sarcasm. :'(Quoting: Anonymousamd sucks. I hope they go out of business. I really do.Agreed, The Nvidia open source drivers are heaps better.
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Quoting: FTWQuoting: Anonymousamd sucks. I hope they go out of business. I really do.I agree with others, if they go out of bussiness, Nvidia has nothing to worry about
You're not being clear here. Are you saying you WANT them to go out of business because Nvidia have nothing to worry about or are you talking about it being an issue due to lack of competition and Nvidia have nothing to worry about.
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FutureSuture May 31, 2014
Quoting: FTWThat is the thing, though. I vote with my wallet, and the company I want to vote for is AMD because AMD is the only company to offer an ever improving, gaming capable, open source driver.Quoting: Anonymousamd sucks. I hope they go out of business. I really do.I agree with others, if they go out of bussiness, Nvidia has nothing to worry about, I mean, Intel isn't exactly a beast when it comes to graphics cards.
I say vote with your wallet, don't buy AMD for Linux systems, if the Steam machines kick off they might see that they are loosing some market.
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a industry without AMD would be quite horrifying
i understand that you guys, from a linux user standpoint, steer away from amd
but from a morality standpoint AMD is the better company out there, by far
just look at their technologies, most amd-technologies are pretty open, and their open-source drivers for linux outperform nvidia's,
amd actually contributes to them, while nvidia's open-source drivers are almost entirely made by the linux comunity,
the first time nvidia contributed to the open source nouveau drivers was a few months ago (source http://www.tgdaily.com/hardware-features/87166-nvidia-eyes-open-source-support-for-k1-graphics)
also if you look from a non linux user standpoint, cuda, physx, gameworks, gsync, are all proprietary and only work on nvidia, physx also works on cpu, but is purposely bricked on it(uses outdated cpu-instructions source http://techreport.com/news/19216/physx-hobbled-on-the-cpu-by-x87-code)
compared to bullet physics, which is open source,freesync, which amd actually pushed as a standard and tressFX, which works on both nvidia and amd, and doesn't suffer on nvidia hardware even though it's amd's technology
nvidia is purposely implementing stuff that run worse on amd harware, just look up 'arkham origins tesselation wireframe' which they implemented in that game since tesselation is amd's main weakness, the ammounts used is beyond reasonable ammounts
i understand that you guys, from a linux user standpoint, steer away from amd
but from a morality standpoint AMD is the better company out there, by far
just look at their technologies, most amd-technologies are pretty open, and their open-source drivers for linux outperform nvidia's,
amd actually contributes to them, while nvidia's open-source drivers are almost entirely made by the linux comunity,
the first time nvidia contributed to the open source nouveau drivers was a few months ago (source http://www.tgdaily.com/hardware-features/87166-nvidia-eyes-open-source-support-for-k1-graphics)
also if you look from a non linux user standpoint, cuda, physx, gameworks, gsync, are all proprietary and only work on nvidia, physx also works on cpu, but is purposely bricked on it(uses outdated cpu-instructions source http://techreport.com/news/19216/physx-hobbled-on-the-cpu-by-x87-code)
compared to bullet physics, which is open source,freesync, which amd actually pushed as a standard and tressFX, which works on both nvidia and amd, and doesn't suffer on nvidia hardware even though it's amd's technology
nvidia is purposely implementing stuff that run worse on amd harware, just look up 'arkham origins tesselation wireframe' which they implemented in that game since tesselation is amd's main weakness, the ammounts used is beyond reasonable ammounts
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Quoting: FutureSutureQuoting: FTWThat is the thing, though. I vote with my wallet, and the company I want to vote for is AMD because AMD is the only company to offer an ever improving, gaming capable, open source driver.Quoting: Anonymousamd sucks. I hope they go out of business. I really do.I agree with others, if they go out of bussiness, Nvidia has nothing to worry about, I mean, Intel isn't exactly a beast when it comes to graphics cards.
I say vote with your wallet, don't buy AMD for Linux systems, if the Steam machines kick off they might see that they are loosing some market.
lmao you got scammed then. AMD don't bother putting effort into their drivers because they know it cost money PLUS they are just releasing documentation so they don't have to do the open source driver them self
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Quoting: loggfreaka industry without AMD would be quite horrifying
Yes it would be quite horrifying to have a industry with very little shit linux drivers
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You firstly need to learn to do simple math for percentages over there for me to take this benchmark seriously.
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AMD have suck for a long time.
The biggest issue I have is that they are extremely power hungry, and have, in my experience always run extremely hot (on windows and linux).
The last amd hardware i bought was a hybrid card in a Lenovo thinkpad edge. Absolutely terrible battery and performance! They always run hot!
Today I would never consider purchasing anything with AMD inside it.
Unfortunately the only credible choice I have are Intells offerings.
After all the years they've been in business, their chips are incredibly bad - why is that?
The biggest issue I have is that they are extremely power hungry, and have, in my experience always run extremely hot (on windows and linux).
The last amd hardware i bought was a hybrid card in a Lenovo thinkpad edge. Absolutely terrible battery and performance! They always run hot!
Today I would never consider purchasing anything with AMD inside it.
Unfortunately the only credible choice I have are Intells offerings.
After all the years they've been in business, their chips are incredibly bad - why is that?
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Isn't the ps4 using openGL to? I asume amd is working hard at improving opengl support for their drivers.
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Quoting: jarfilOk, so the difference is obvious. Still, I'm kind of sick of people saying that 100 minus 647% equals anything but -547.
Quoting: AnonymousYou firstly need to learn to do simple math for percentages over there for me to take this benchmark seriously.
Well, you first need to learn simple physicist and mathematician tools before being taken seriously. This may help : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percent_difference
At your service ;-)
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amd sucks in linux,in windows is better,but in linux they made horrible drivers never again i will buy and amd gpu if they not made better drivers,linux user gentoo.
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