So, I've already talked at length about "bad ports" and why I thought the toolkit used to port games to Linux matters. Now I'm here again to talk about why it actually doesn't matter and why we need to accept that in the end.
The first thing to note is that I feel like my mind has done a complete turn-around on games being ported to Linux that aren't "native". Native ports are great yes that's true of course, but I doubt we will ever have every developer and publisher on board with that. Publishers & Developers are in it for the money, no matter what they say if they didn't sell well they would be in trouble and wouldn't be able to continue, time is also money and time-saving for a tiny platform where they are likely to see ~5% of their sales from will probably look appealing.
So, for those developers & publishers what would be so bad about them using something like Wine?
If they used an open source technology like Wine and contributed a bug-fix here and there to make sure their game works then surly that's better for the Linux gaming ecosystem as a whole than not having a game at all? We then have a game and a less-buggy version Wine for everyone.
The problem with The Witcher 2 is that the toolkit it used is very new on Linux and untested by the masses. Once it gets fixed up somewhat (and I am hoping it does) then it will become more useful and the games using it will get better performance thus making way for more games using it. It certainly looks like Virtual Programming are working on it as since the Linux release there has been a few new builds of the "vp_beta" branch, so patches will come soon hopefully. If they can suddenly make me go from 10FPS to a reasonable amount and it becomes playable, then will it bother me any more? Probably not.
If the game is using eON, Wine, DosBox, and it works for you, why does it matter? It doesn't since it works and isn't a working game what you want? If it doesn't work then report the bugs, don't get up-in-arms about it as bugs just happen and treat it as you would any other software.
I recently guest talked on Jupiter Broadcasting's LINUX Unplugged Episode 42, if you listen to it be mindful that was my first live cast ever!
I think Alan Pope from Canonical said it best after I had my section:
Those are some really wise words and they sunk into me that's for sure. I've seen reports from people actually stating Windows games ran in Wine have at times worked better for them on Linux than they did in Windows and hearing that has actually become more common.
If you are on the thought process of "wine is often buggy and unreliable", well that's thinking from the point of view that you have purchased a Windows game and have to tweak everything about Wine to fit it. This is the developer doing all that work for you so that the game works without an issue.
When GOG.com comes along and brings with it games using DosBox will anyone get annoyed about that? I doubt it if I remember correctly masses of people were excited about that, and I feel the same applies here really. If it works, it works. If it doesn't file bugs, don't be rude and don't carry on the bad reputation Linux gamers already seem to have.
I will always support developers who go the native route more of course, but if it works using something else and sets a precedent for that developer & publisher to go native in the future then that's bloody fantastic.
If you still feel that strongly about refusing ports that aren't "100% native" then vote with your wallet and not a loud mouth that attacks developers and shuns them for even trying, they might never return to our platform keeping us in the limbo of "but x game isn't on Linux!".
The situation is going to improve over time, Source engine 2 from Valve is going OpenGL native, Unreal Engine 4+ is native and more. It's a time to be happy to be a Linux gamer and support those who try rather than ignore our platform don't you think? Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
The first thing to note is that I feel like my mind has done a complete turn-around on games being ported to Linux that aren't "native". Native ports are great yes that's true of course, but I doubt we will ever have every developer and publisher on board with that. Publishers & Developers are in it for the money, no matter what they say if they didn't sell well they would be in trouble and wouldn't be able to continue, time is also money and time-saving for a tiny platform where they are likely to see ~5% of their sales from will probably look appealing.
So, for those developers & publishers what would be so bad about them using something like Wine?
If they used an open source technology like Wine and contributed a bug-fix here and there to make sure their game works then surly that's better for the Linux gaming ecosystem as a whole than not having a game at all? We then have a game and a less-buggy version Wine for everyone.
The problem with The Witcher 2 is that the toolkit it used is very new on Linux and untested by the masses. Once it gets fixed up somewhat (and I am hoping it does) then it will become more useful and the games using it will get better performance thus making way for more games using it. It certainly looks like Virtual Programming are working on it as since the Linux release there has been a few new builds of the "vp_beta" branch, so patches will come soon hopefully. If they can suddenly make me go from 10FPS to a reasonable amount and it becomes playable, then will it bother me any more? Probably not.
If the game is using eON, Wine, DosBox,
I recently guest talked on Jupiter Broadcasting's LINUX Unplugged Episode 42, if you listen to it be mindful that was my first live cast ever!
I think Alan Pope from Canonical said it best after I had my section:
QuoteI don't care what technology enables it, so long as it works and it depresses me that the Linux community is happy to file a bug like their keyboard or mouse not working to their distro, but when a developer of a game comes along and uses a 3rd party enabler to make their game work on Linux rather than file a bug and say "your game doesn't work very well on my platform" they go full-bore hassling the person on Steam, and I think that's the wrong way.
Those are some really wise words and they sunk into me that's for sure. I've seen reports from people actually stating Windows games ran in Wine have at times worked better for them on Linux than they did in Windows and hearing that has actually become more common.
If you are on the thought process of "wine is often buggy and unreliable", well that's thinking from the point of view that you have purchased a Windows game and have to tweak everything about Wine to fit it. This is the developer doing all that work for you so that the game works without an issue.
When GOG.com comes along and brings with it games using DosBox will anyone get annoyed about that? I doubt it if I remember correctly masses of people were excited about that, and I feel the same applies here really. If it works, it works. If it doesn't file bugs, don't be rude and don't carry on the bad reputation Linux gamers already seem to have.
I will always support developers who go the native route more of course, but if it works using something else and sets a precedent for that developer & publisher to go native in the future then that's bloody fantastic.
If you still feel that strongly about refusing ports that aren't "100% native" then vote with your wallet and not a loud mouth that attacks developers and shuns them for even trying, they might never return to our platform keeping us in the limbo of "but x game isn't on Linux!".
The situation is going to improve over time, Source engine 2 from Valve is going OpenGL native, Unreal Engine 4+ is native and more. It's a time to be happy to be a Linux gamer and support those who try rather than ignore our platform don't you think? Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
0 Likes
Some you may have missed, popular articles from the last month:
The comments on this article are closed.
Quoting: SkullyYou think they actually thought the game would meet expectations? Who ever made that decision should be fired, at best it should of been put in the beta tab. They have to know it's bad right? Could anyone have tried it and thought, yep this is ready for our fans. lmao
No they don't have to know it was bad, they already fixed all the bugs that affected the systems owned by their testers. Those like our own Scaine who are having great results probably happen to have systems like the ones they tested on. It's a brown-paper-bag release because they didn't pay enough attention to hardware diversity, which happens to hardly be a factor at all for the Mac gaming market that these guys (the porters) come from.
0 Likes
They ported it to mac with eon first, and guess what it's bad too. Check the steam forums.
Same company that did the port for them also ported Spec ops: the line and dead island for mac and I think you can guess how good they are aswell. We prolly gunna see those ports on linux one day too YAY
Can you find a good solid modern game that has been wrapped for linux or mac and been any sort of good??
Also VP is currently working on wrapping Dirt Showdown. Which with recent news that codemasters are bringing Grid auto sport to linux, probably just means it will be another game to avoid.
http://www.gamingonlinux.com/articles/codemasters-looking-at-supporting-linux-grid-autosport-possible.3627
link to vp games page http://www.vpltd.com/
be very careful before ever buying a linux version of those listed games.
Same company that did the port for them also ported Spec ops: the line and dead island for mac and I think you can guess how good they are aswell. We prolly gunna see those ports on linux one day too YAY
Can you find a good solid modern game that has been wrapped for linux or mac and been any sort of good??
Also VP is currently working on wrapping Dirt Showdown. Which with recent news that codemasters are bringing Grid auto sport to linux, probably just means it will be another game to avoid.
http://www.gamingonlinux.com/articles/codemasters-looking-at-supporting-linux-grid-autosport-possible.3627
link to vp games page http://www.vpltd.com/
be very careful before ever buying a linux version of those listed games.
0 Likes
I really wish Wine would just go away.
0 Likes
Quoting: Rob on LinuxI really wish Wine would just go away.
I really wish people who say that would go away. Wine is an excellent bit of software for what it does.
0 Likes
Quoting: liamdaweQuoting: Rob on LinuxI really wish Wine would just go away.I really wish people who say that would go away. Wine is an excellent bit of software for what it does.
Nice way to talk to readers of your site
1 Likes, Who?
Quoting: AnonymousOhhh touchy. It's not exactly nice to say you want something to go away that many people have worked hard on. It's open source and useful for a lot of things not just gaming, but old software people are stuck with.Quoting: liamdaweNice way to talk to readers of your siteQuoting: Rob on LinuxI really wish Wine would just go away.I really wish people who say that would go away. Wine is an excellent bit of software for what it does.
Wine existing is not the issue. Don't be silly.
It's a stupid statement, so I will respond in-kind.
1 Likes, Who?
Well, colour me stunned. A huge turnaround, Liam. At the exact point that you had me thinking "maybe Liam has a point and the underlying tech is super important!". :-)
I do wonder if we will get a sub-par Mac experience in the coming months if more of these wrapper-based games are released. I mean, Metro LL was superb and only purists would complain that it lacked some of the advanced OpenGL tweaks that the Windows version got. So I think that set a standard and therefore we were all disappointed with the shaky performance on The Witcher 2. (Well, apart from me. I'm tearing myself away from it (10 hours in) to write this comment!)
I'm mostly with you on this article. Wine/Wrappers are okay, provided they're done well, but ONLY for older games. I think we're on a slippery slope if we start mass-buying games that get launched on Windows, then wrapped for Mac/Linux a few weeks later. Screw that, frankly.
Native for new, wrapper for old, but either way, do it well and if possible beta-test before launch.
I do wonder if we will get a sub-par Mac experience in the coming months if more of these wrapper-based games are released. I mean, Metro LL was superb and only purists would complain that it lacked some of the advanced OpenGL tweaks that the Windows version got. So I think that set a standard and therefore we were all disappointed with the shaky performance on The Witcher 2. (Well, apart from me. I'm tearing myself away from it (10 hours in) to write this comment!)
I'm mostly with you on this article. Wine/Wrappers are okay, provided they're done well, but ONLY for older games. I think we're on a slippery slope if we start mass-buying games that get launched on Windows, then wrapped for Mac/Linux a few weeks later. Screw that, frankly.
Native for new, wrapper for old, but either way, do it well and if possible beta-test before launch.
1 Likes, Who?
I can't agree to that. Why does it matter to me? As a archlinux user i have a much higher update rate than most other distributions. I don't think any publisher want to make their wine based ports running on a distribution which can break their work within 1 week. For me as a customer that means i will always kinda be alone cause diagnose a error and fix it in a closed source solution like for example eOn or a winewrapper with additional code to make it run like system shock 2 (full steam integration) is nearly impossible. So what will happen ... the publisher / dev will say it's my distribution and instead of makeing linux a better gameing os they will concentrate on 1 distribution (steamos / ubuntu) ... my distribution might say its this package. That leads towards something linux never wanted to do ... reduce your freedom of choice. Like what you wanna play on linux ... go use ubunntu. Of course Canoncial will defend this .. i don't think redhat or suse will be pleased to be forced to use the same libs like ubuntu just to stay compatible.
Beside that when i have a native library i can do a ldd on the executable and check which libraries it uses. Now please try the same with the eOn port of the witcher 2 and or try to debug it.
Also you completly left out that a windows executable even in a virtual enviroment brings a whole lot of new security risks. Who will be responsible for that or let me ask different ... how many distributions have a preconfigured clamav running which watches filesystem and detects windows viruses when you download it?! This is a complete mess.
In my eyes there is a place for this kind of ports but not as a solution and for that reasons i don't feel like encouraging any publisher / dev to go this route or give them the kind of absolution you right now ask for. You are right some might not want to come to linux ... but the only answer can be than they shouldn't.
We could live for years without games. We have hundreds of native ported games already. Should we realy don't mind about it to get a few more games? Also with CryEngine / Unreal 4 / Leadworks / Unity there is no real reason for a new game to go this way. When will you cross the line? Will you allow new games to use this wrapper too , even you know the dev/publisher just doesn't care about multiplatform programing and therefor don't respect the security and design decissions of your OS?
If we are realy so keen on games .. we should dualboot the system they are written for or use a virtualisation with a pci paththrou of a second gfx card or what ever ... but no we shouldn't drop what made the os what it is for a few games.
Beside that when i have a native library i can do a ldd on the executable and check which libraries it uses. Now please try the same with the eOn port of the witcher 2 and or try to debug it.
Also you completly left out that a windows executable even in a virtual enviroment brings a whole lot of new security risks. Who will be responsible for that or let me ask different ... how many distributions have a preconfigured clamav running which watches filesystem and detects windows viruses when you download it?! This is a complete mess.
In my eyes there is a place for this kind of ports but not as a solution and for that reasons i don't feel like encouraging any publisher / dev to go this route or give them the kind of absolution you right now ask for. You are right some might not want to come to linux ... but the only answer can be than they shouldn't.
We could live for years without games. We have hundreds of native ported games already. Should we realy don't mind about it to get a few more games? Also with CryEngine / Unreal 4 / Leadworks / Unity there is no real reason for a new game to go this way. When will you cross the line? Will you allow new games to use this wrapper too , even you know the dev/publisher just doesn't care about multiplatform programing and therefor don't respect the security and design decissions of your OS?
If we are realy so keen on games .. we should dualboot the system they are written for or use a virtualisation with a pci paththrou of a second gfx card or what ever ... but no we shouldn't drop what made the os what it is for a few games.
1 Likes, Who?
FutureSuture May 28, 2014
The Witcher 2: Assassins of Kings should have been done by Feral who has plenty of experience with OpenGL and an excellent reputation on Mac OS, not by some company using an unproven, untested wrapper for what is arguably the biggest release for Linux to date.
1 Likes, Who?
New games shouldn't use wrapper, it should be made with an Engine that's multplatform support.
Old games on the other hand, I really don't mind; developers don't have the man power or money like Valve to port old games. And sometimes they won't make much of a profit doing this because some Linux already own the windows version (Seriously, if the developer ops out of steamplay, you know they'll be some complaints).
The Witcher 2, despite its performance problems, feels native. If they can sort the crashing and the frame rate problems, then I think it will turn into a good port regardless of whether it's using a wrapper or not.
Old games on the other hand, I really don't mind; developers don't have the man power or money like Valve to port old games. And sometimes they won't make much of a profit doing this because some Linux already own the windows version (Seriously, if the developer ops out of steamplay, you know they'll be some complaints).
The Witcher 2, despite its performance problems, feels native. If they can sort the crashing and the frame rate problems, then I think it will turn into a good port regardless of whether it's using a wrapper or not.
1 Likes, Who?
Patreon
PayPal
See more from me