Oh boy, I do love a good rant from a developer. This time it's the C4 engine dropping Linux support (honestly, how many of you have even heard of C4?).
Warning: It's a real rant.
Choice quote from their announcement
QuoteThis decision was made based on the disproportionate cost, both in terms of time and money, that we incur to support Linux relative to a very small return on our investment. This decision was also made to preserve my own sanity since my personal experiences with Linux have been extremely negative and have resulted in huge wastes of time that could have been better spent on more productive tasks. Terathon Software will no longer contribute to the popularity of an operating system that I personally view as inferior in design to both Windows and Mac OS X. Linux has proven to be Frankenstein OS assembled from a disparate array of barely functioning parts with horrible reliability and little potential for future improvement. Time that would have been spent on Linux support will now be used to strengthen our product on platforms with much greater viability.
The comments are just, amazing. One commenter provided this funny image:
And the developer responded with:
QuoteIt's my expert opinion, man.
Oh my, I mean there's being a good developer, and there's being a bit full of yourself.
He has also been dropping gems on his Twitter account:
Finished excision of Linux code from the C4 Engine. Negative 2008 lines. Good riddance.
— Eric Lengyel (@EricLengyel) January 10, 2015I have reached the point where I feel morally obligated to drop all support for Linux.
— Eric Lengyel (@EricLengyel) January 10, 2015Things like this are concerning though, and it is a real issue:
I love it when Ubuntu starts freezing for no good reason right before the login screen. That's high-quality engineering right there.
— Eric Lengyel (@EricLengyel) December 26, 2014I do wonder if it is a hardware or a driver issue, my last freezing issue turned out to be RAM that failed at specific things.
We don't often write about people ranting about Linux, and for one developer making a full bit of kit like C4 it can be time consuming, so we don't have much to say other than "oh well". We still have many more better engines around.
All hail Frankenstein, in Frankenstein we trust. Move along.
P.S. Please try to keep comments reasonable about this topic. Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
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I just read this post by Juan Linietsky on the Godot Engine forums, although not directly related to C4, it shows the stark contrast between the two engine leaders. This is the kind of guy I want to support. Unfortunately, he doesn't charge for Godot but instead gives it away under the liberal MIT license, and donations are not accepted anywhere that I could find... I guess he does it all for the fun of it.
I wouldn't oppose a donation button, but yes I agree and fully support Juan Linietsky's statement in that.
Contributions to awesome tools like this can vary and go a long way by simply using the tool and helping others within its open community. Money isn't the only way of supporting something like Godot. :)
2 Likes, Who?
If someone can not even install Ubuntu, that's sad, especially someone who claims to be an expert. It is always interesting to see rants from people who claim Linux is terrible but do not offer details as to why, or offering examples of the problems they are having so the community can guide them to what they might be doing wrong.
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Okay, I know I'm getting in on the butt end of this, but I think this bashing from our side needs to stop. After reading the thread, I've seen multiple arguments calling for the dismissal of this developer, and more than a few cheap shots at that.
Why am I taking umbrage? Because they're the *exact same arguments* we've all been hearing about Linux for two decades now - "less than 1%", "who uses this software anyway?", "I've never heard of this, therefore it must suck". I'm glad that Linux isn't getting pissed on anymore, but I'm worried that since we've got Valve developing for us now, the piss-ees have become the piss-ers. If anybody should know better than using the 1% argument, it's us. Number of installed users != worthiness or quality of the software (the engine might be as crappy as his attitude, but I don't know. I've never used it.)
As for Ubuntu exploding when you try to install it on a PC, I've personally had that happen. I went through three or four distros before I found one that the cantankerous (and relatively modern!), hardware liked, and even then X11 didn't want to play nice at the login screen. Near as I can tell, it was just a Walmart computer with a magic mobo chipset that absolutely hated all things non-Windows. These things happen. They're rare in my experience, yes, but they *do* happen.
And while we're at it, yeah, the guy is entitled to claim his opinion is an expert one. Most experts may disagree with him, and he can be as wrong as possible, but I'd say a PhD in comp-sci and having a game engine under your belt rather qualifies him as an expert here. Now is he arrogant, as has been claimed here? Maybe, but not for this reason. Holding a doctorate in a given field and claiming that pronouncements you make in that field are expert ones does not fit any definition of arrogance with which I am familiar. PhD's are *expected* to have expert opinions in their fields. Conversely, having no degree of any kind in a given field ... well, you get the idea.
All that said, I think the guy is making a mistake. I find him boorish, frustrated, and possibly a bit childish. But if he tells me I'm fucking up my pointers or I need to rearrange my linking order I'm going to pay attention. No one does well by trading vitriol for disrespect. If he wants to leave, let him. But save the slings and arrows. It makes you look like one of the pissers we've been enduring for twenty years.
Why am I taking umbrage? Because they're the *exact same arguments* we've all been hearing about Linux for two decades now - "less than 1%", "who uses this software anyway?", "I've never heard of this, therefore it must suck". I'm glad that Linux isn't getting pissed on anymore, but I'm worried that since we've got Valve developing for us now, the piss-ees have become the piss-ers. If anybody should know better than using the 1% argument, it's us. Number of installed users != worthiness or quality of the software (the engine might be as crappy as his attitude, but I don't know. I've never used it.)
As for Ubuntu exploding when you try to install it on a PC, I've personally had that happen. I went through three or four distros before I found one that the cantankerous (and relatively modern!), hardware liked, and even then X11 didn't want to play nice at the login screen. Near as I can tell, it was just a Walmart computer with a magic mobo chipset that absolutely hated all things non-Windows. These things happen. They're rare in my experience, yes, but they *do* happen.
And while we're at it, yeah, the guy is entitled to claim his opinion is an expert one. Most experts may disagree with him, and he can be as wrong as possible, but I'd say a PhD in comp-sci and having a game engine under your belt rather qualifies him as an expert here. Now is he arrogant, as has been claimed here? Maybe, but not for this reason. Holding a doctorate in a given field and claiming that pronouncements you make in that field are expert ones does not fit any definition of arrogance with which I am familiar. PhD's are *expected* to have expert opinions in their fields. Conversely, having no degree of any kind in a given field ... well, you get the idea.
All that said, I think the guy is making a mistake. I find him boorish, frustrated, and possibly a bit childish. But if he tells me I'm fucking up my pointers or I need to rearrange my linking order I'm going to pay attention. No one does well by trading vitriol for disrespect. If he wants to leave, let him. But save the slings and arrows. It makes you look like one of the pissers we've been enduring for twenty years.
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Oh, you almost got me. thought it was CE4 aka CE aka CryEngine.
Lol, C4, who gives a Tux to this dev.
(the LUG at Star Citizen gave some Tux's to CryTek in Germany)
Lol, C4, who gives a Tux to this dev.
(the LUG at Star Citizen gave some Tux's to CryTek in Germany)
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I'd say this guy is not even trying. I bet he can install Ubuntu because he's incapable of thinking outside the "next next next restart computer" scheme of Windows. This expert probably tried to install Avast on Ubuntu with a EXE file from Softonic and since it didn't work conclude that Linux is crap.
And that is really because he didn't manage to install Ubuntu on one particular machine that he is dropping Linux support, not because of a logical train of though or anything, just because he is butthurt :
Any developer should be able to install Ubuntu in one hour max, if there is a problem with his hardware he should have realized that the hardware was the problem and not the OS.
And that is really because he didn't manage to install Ubuntu on one particular machine that he is dropping Linux support, not because of a logical train of though or anything, just because he is butthurt :
A lot of ponies seem to think that maintaining the engine code for Linux is what was costly. That's not the case. The engine ran fine in Linux, and I rarely had any problems with graphics, audio, input, etc., once the engine code became robust on that platform. The problem is Linux itself not working. I cannot afford to spend weeks at a time just trying to install Linux, get it to boot, and get a development environment working. I simply don't have the funding to justify letting the engine stagnate while I mess around with an OS that should just work. It's extremely wasteful and unfair to users who are waiting on new features.
Also, I didn't rage-quit. I've been very patient with Linux for over two years, and the latest problems were simply the proverbial "last straw". I struggled very hard with this decision, knowing that it would piss off some ponies, but ultimately I had to choose what I thought was best for the future of the C4 Engine. I should be working on iOS support, new features like the particle system editor, and performance optimizations, not spending my entire day trying to get a computer to boot up properly, work with the GPU, and remain stable after installing updates.
Any developer should be able to install Ubuntu in one hour max, if there is a problem with his hardware he should have realized that the hardware was the problem and not the OS.
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I frequent this site, and I had to register because of this thread. I almost teared up that we lost the C4 Engine, it has to be one of the greatest engines I didn't know existed until about 5 minutes ago... photo realism graphics, physics that rival reality. All that loss aside what made me cry... is that it took him all day to install ubuntu... Even if you were installing it on a potato, it should still take 1/8 the time it takes to install windows. Maybe its because I don't have a Masters or a PhD, that it didn't take me as long, maybe i've been doing it wrong all these years.
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Hmmm all day to install Ubuntu... When I can do a fresh Arch install in about 30 to 45min (dep on internet speeds)... And Their web site is running an Apache server, so I can assume its running on Linux (like 80% of the internet). I will say while Linux has some of the most innovative Desktop Environments, It was only until recently that innovation is ready for prime time. Some of our most exciting DE's are still in sort of beta (IE Deepin, Elementary OS, ect...). But With all of that our most stable offerings (Gnome (2) / Mate, Cinnamon, KDE, ect...), have continually out preformed in gaming benchmarks. In fact has even out preformed native Windows games, with and "emulation" layer....
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"expert" => "problems with apt-get"
something is wrong with this equation, lol. but, i guess some people do agree with things like that. youtube confirms this
View video on youtube.com
ROFL
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Im 13 years on Gentoo, where can I get my PhD in CS? JEEZ...
In my field (medicine), you would kill someone thinking like that, lose your licence and end up in prison. IT guys are spoiled brats...
In my field (medicine), you would kill someone thinking like that, lose your licence and end up in prison. IT guys are spoiled brats...
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Segata Sanshiro 13 Jan 2015
I just realised that this is the engine used on one of the worst games I have ever seen. Vinesauce did a let's play of it a while back, it was pretty hilarious:
View video on youtube.com
Yeah, no big loss really. This is worse than air control.
View video on youtube.com
Yeah, no big loss really. This is worse than air control.
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Wow. A lot of you guys aren't getting it.
Stop being dicks in public. The crap you're slinging is almost verbatim what the Linux world had to suffer for years.
Stop being dicks in public. The crap you're slinging is almost verbatim what the Linux world had to suffer for years.
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Cyba.Cowboy 13 Jan 2015
Apparently this developer did seek support for his problems, problems which are supposedly widespread:
https://twitter.com/EricLengyel/status/554792811304742912
Though curiously, he has been pretty vague about exactly what his problems were... It would be helpful - both to his problems and to his standing within the Gaming Community - if he was a little more specific regarding what his problems were and/or what he did to resolve them.
https://twitter.com/EricLengyel/status/554792811304742912
Though curiously, he has been pretty vague about exactly what his problems were... It would be helpful - both to his problems and to his standing within the Gaming Community - if he was a little more specific regarding what his problems were and/or what he did to resolve them.
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lucifertdark 13 Jan 2015
Amazing, Ubuntu 14.04 for me takes 40 minutes start to finish on a clean install including running apt-get update to bring it up to date.
The last time I had trouble installing Ubuntu was 9.04 which I just couldn't get to install no matter what I tried.
The last time I had trouble installing Ubuntu was 9.04 which I just couldn't get to install no matter what I tried.
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Lol, this news was a little bit troubling, until I actually looked up the kind of games that uses this engine I'd never heard of. Meh, it's no loss for Linux as a gaming os.
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Wild guess: he has unsuported AMD card and it "freezes" after login screen with fglrx installed.
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thelimeydragon 13 Jan 2015
He should just develop it on a virtual machine.
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Cyba.Cowboy 13 Jan 2015
Wild guess: he has unsuported AMD card and it "freezes" after login screen with fglrx installed.
The same thought crossed my mind (unfortunately, I used a stupid AMD card too, for the time being)...
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"expert" => "problems with apt-get"
That's my thought too. And that was my same thought when this guy said he had had problems installing Ubuntu and so on...
Man, I'm no programmer and I don't work in the IT industry by no means. I would call myself just an advanced user, but back in 2002 (woody or sarge) I was able to install Debian netinst... Those memories.... just like the joy of trying the brand new KDE 3.0...
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I don't mind one bit when developers who don't know Linux stop developing for it. At the current state of Linux gaming affairs those kind of developers do far, far more harm than good.
Developers with no Linux knowledge is well on the way of completely ruining Unitys reputation in the Linux world, and make Linux look real bad.
Developers with no Linux knowledge is well on the way of completely ruining Unitys reputation in the Linux world, and make Linux look real bad.
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"Tried all day to install Ubuntu 14.04. Failed miserably. This just adds to my heaping pile of bad experiences with Linux."
Such words is strongly unrecomended to use. Or bloody penguin will find this man and till the end of life he will install ubuntu 14.04 and failed it.
Really, after his words I feel myself like a cool hakir.
Such words is strongly unrecomended to use. Or bloody penguin will find this man and till the end of life he will install ubuntu 14.04 and failed it.
Really, after his words I feel myself like a cool hakir.
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