Oh boy, I do love a good rant from a developer. This time it's the C4 engine dropping Linux support (honestly, how many of you have even heard of C4?).
Warning: It's a real rant.
Choice quote from their announcement
QuoteThis decision was made based on the disproportionate cost, both in terms of time and money, that we incur to support Linux relative to a very small return on our investment. This decision was also made to preserve my own sanity since my personal experiences with Linux have been extremely negative and have resulted in huge wastes of time that could have been better spent on more productive tasks. Terathon Software will no longer contribute to the popularity of an operating system that I personally view as inferior in design to both Windows and Mac OS X. Linux has proven to be Frankenstein OS assembled from a disparate array of barely functioning parts with horrible reliability and little potential for future improvement. Time that would have been spent on Linux support will now be used to strengthen our product on platforms with much greater viability.
The comments are just, amazing. One commenter provided this funny image:
And the developer responded with:
QuoteIt's my expert opinion, man.
Oh my, I mean there's being a good developer, and there's being a bit full of yourself.
He has also been dropping gems on his Twitter account:
Finished excision of Linux code from the C4 Engine. Negative 2008 lines. Good riddance.
— Eric Lengyel (@EricLengyel) January 10, 2015I have reached the point where I feel morally obligated to drop all support for Linux.
— Eric Lengyel (@EricLengyel) January 10, 2015Things like this are concerning though, and it is a real issue:
I love it when Ubuntu starts freezing for no good reason right before the login screen. That's high-quality engineering right there.
— Eric Lengyel (@EricLengyel) December 26, 2014I do wonder if it is a hardware or a driver issue, my last freezing issue turned out to be RAM that failed at specific things.
We don't often write about people ranting about Linux, and for one developer making a full bit of kit like C4 it can be time consuming, so we don't have much to say other than "oh well". We still have many more better engines around.
All hail Frankenstein, in Frankenstein we trust. Move along.
P.S. Please try to keep comments reasonable about this topic. Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
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The comments on this article are closed.
PublicNuisance Jan 13, 2015
I have never heard of this developer or this engine. Their childish behavior doesn't make me want to buy their product though. I know boycotting an engine could be a bad idea. I mean I would have to miss out on any game that uses it such as City Bus Simulator 2010 or Fat Princess Adventures. How can I do that to myself ?
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FutureSuture Jan 13, 2015
I am with mirv on this. The snide and downright unprofessional remarks this developer made in public are not immune to criticism or jokes by the Linux community. If said developer does not want his comments ridiculed, I suggest that he utilise a small dose of tact instead of spewing vitriol out of the gate. Perhaps the community's reaction would be more forthcoming if the instigator was not being entirely obnoxious. It's as simple as treating others like you would like to be treated. As the Linux community is already fighting an uphill battle, productive criticism would have been regarded well, but all we received were insolent rants. Not the best way to make a first impression.
4 Likes, Who?
I once made a comment on this site about a game that had a kickstarter going and was using this engine. They said they were going to have Linux support. I stated I didn't want to support anything that used the C4 engine. I received a lot of flak for that comment. People attacked me saying I was crushing their dream. Now those same people need to look back and figure out if that game is still going to have Linux support or not.
I bought a license for this engine a few years ago. I thought it was great. But Eric is a very difficult person to work with if you don't share his views 100% of the time. Their community can be just as toxic as others.
From what I remember his build scripts were setup in a very complicated manner. I spent a long time trying to understand where everything is and how to build it all so I could use it properly. To me it looked like Linux was an after thought. He hacked his VisualStudio builds to work as best as he could on Linux.
Eric is a very stubborn and arrogant person from what I remember. It doesn't surprise me that a few issues with Linux and he goes on a rant saying it's crap. Also his idea about SteamOS is horrible. SteamOS is debian based, same as Ubuntu. If he thinks it's a completely different OS he is in for a surprise. You can install Steam on any distro. There is no way he can keep his engine from being used on Linux in general if he plans to support SteamOS. He could add a complicated license into the engine that states that any game supporting Linux can only be sold through Steam, but then who really wants to deal with that kind of mess when trying to make money on a game.
Either way we look at this, the comments toward him won't mean anything. He will ignore it and continue to believe he knows everything. At this point in time his engine isn't going to get very far. Look at the big players that adjusted their licensing fees. There is no reason to use the C4 engine when better options are out there.
I bought a license for this engine a few years ago. I thought it was great. But Eric is a very difficult person to work with if you don't share his views 100% of the time. Their community can be just as toxic as others.
From what I remember his build scripts were setup in a very complicated manner. I spent a long time trying to understand where everything is and how to build it all so I could use it properly. To me it looked like Linux was an after thought. He hacked his VisualStudio builds to work as best as he could on Linux.
Eric is a very stubborn and arrogant person from what I remember. It doesn't surprise me that a few issues with Linux and he goes on a rant saying it's crap. Also his idea about SteamOS is horrible. SteamOS is debian based, same as Ubuntu. If he thinks it's a completely different OS he is in for a surprise. You can install Steam on any distro. There is no way he can keep his engine from being used on Linux in general if he plans to support SteamOS. He could add a complicated license into the engine that states that any game supporting Linux can only be sold through Steam, but then who really wants to deal with that kind of mess when trying to make money on a game.
Either way we look at this, the comments toward him won't mean anything. He will ignore it and continue to believe he knows everything. At this point in time his engine isn't going to get very far. Look at the big players that adjusted their licensing fees. There is no reason to use the C4 engine when better options are out there.
6 Likes, Who?
Linux users have been struggling with smear campaigns, false facts, arrogance and ignorance since 1991, does he think that people who have used Linux for a long time, and experienced this all the time will pat him on the back?
Don't be silly. You reap what you sow. If these people had approached Linux users with honest criticism and actual facts they would be welcomed.
If you can't take criticism for your opinions or your behavior you shouldn't be in public.
I've been using Linux since 2006, and my bucket of "be nice to ignorant & arrogant assholes" is all but empty.
I won't buy any games using this engine because of his attitude. Had he said that he won't support Linux in a professional way I wouldn't mind.
Don't be silly. You reap what you sow. If these people had approached Linux users with honest criticism and actual facts they would be welcomed.
If you can't take criticism for your opinions or your behavior you shouldn't be in public.
I've been using Linux since 2006, and my bucket of "be nice to ignorant & arrogant assholes" is all but empty.
I won't buy any games using this engine because of his attitude. Had he said that he won't support Linux in a professional way I wouldn't mind.
2 Likes, Who?
lucifertdark Jan 13, 2015
I have a few questions....
1. What distro of Linux was he using before he failed to install Ubuntu 14.04?
2. Why did he try to change to Ubuntu if he already had a working distro?
3. In what way did the install fail?
4. What is this well known bug that caused the failure?
5. Why didn't he go back to the original distro & still continue support for Linux?
6. Why did he NOT ask for assistance on public forums if he was having problems instead of just moaning about it & ripping out the code for Linux, possibly causing more problems in the process?
1. What distro of Linux was he using before he failed to install Ubuntu 14.04?
2. Why did he try to change to Ubuntu if he already had a working distro?
3. In what way did the install fail?
4. What is this well known bug that caused the failure?
5. Why didn't he go back to the original distro & still continue support for Linux?
6. Why did he NOT ask for assistance on public forums if he was having problems instead of just moaning about it & ripping out the code for Linux, possibly causing more problems in the process?
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@lucifertdark, He has given a little more info on forums:
He has also been trying to use the Wubi installer on other Windows 8 machines, which is not supported.
Quoting: Eric Lengyel it would periodically start failing to boot up. Either the boot loader would give me an error message, or the screen would just stay black without anything happening, or I would get to a solid purple screen that just froze. No mouse cursor, no response to keyboard input, nothing. This happens for no reason whatsoever. I never made any hardware changes or did anything out of the ordinary like tinkering with the hard drive partitions. It just spontaneously breaks. So I reinstall. Again and again, every time this happens.I know what your thinking but…
Quoting: Eric Lengyel And btw, I don't have a hardware problem. Don't even mention it. It's new, and it's high-end.
He has also been trying to use the Wubi installer on other Windows 8 machines, which is not supported.
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Cyba.Cowboy Jan 13, 2015
Possibly a combination of a graphics card issue (*cough cough* AMD *cough cough*) and the Secure Boot bull$%&t?
A "new, high-end PC" running Microsoft Windows 8 or Microsoft Windows 8.1 will have a UEFI with Secure Boot enabled by default; under a dual-boot configuration, most "mainstream" PCs have issues starting-up and it's common that they will not start-up at all...
This was the reason I gave-up and decided to single-boot Ubuntu on the family PC (my laptop is a much older model with a BIOS, so when I used to dual-boot, I had no problems).
A "new, high-end PC" running Microsoft Windows 8 or Microsoft Windows 8.1 will have a UEFI with Secure Boot enabled by default; under a dual-boot configuration, most "mainstream" PCs have issues starting-up and it's common that they will not start-up at all...
This was the reason I gave-up and decided to single-boot Ubuntu on the family PC (my laptop is a much older model with a BIOS, so when I used to dual-boot, I had no problems).
1 Likes, Who?
Quoting: Eric LengyelI just reformatted the "new" machine, and I have Windows 7 installing. We'll see if that makes a difference...Strange approach, but at lease with all the frustration and (apparently) negative feedback he is still attempting once again to resolve the problem.
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Cyba.Cowboy Jan 13, 2015
Quoting: N30NStrange approach, but at lease with all the frustration and (apparently) negative feedback he is still attempting once again to resolve the problem.
Um no, I'm pretty sure he's not... He said he's installing Microsoft Windows 7, not a Linux-based operating system.
Though that may shed some light on his problems - he's using a "new, high-end PC", so I think it's pretty safe to assume he's dual-booting and his computer has a UEFI, which as some of us know, is a pain in the a$$ under a dual-boot scenario...
1 Likes, Who?
Kallestofeles Jan 13, 2015
Eeeeeh... I really don't understand such developers.
Is it just me who sees developing for Linux support in gaming such a way - you take the latest Vanilla Ubuntu LTS release (fresh install) and then you port your game/app/engine/whatever to work with that (including the necessary libraries with the packet so it would not f**k up the whole system and would be separate just for this application). Later on expanding your test rig with nvidia/ati/intel whatever graphics settings are missing and adapt the app.
I am no developer, but this seems logical and not such a big deal.
You might give me flack for putting vanilla Ubuntu up there and not Arch/Manjaro or Suse, etc. But the way I see it, Ubuntu and its derivatives are the most solid choice when it comes to developing gaming on linux. (you always have one base, backed up by Canonical, on which to build)
When it runs on Ubuntu, I am 100% sure that the community takes care of any issues that might arise with other OS' like Arch. (ok not dev issues but generally speaking)
If someone has any more experience with this topic, please, elaborate on it... is my way of thoughts generally correct or am I way off?
Is it just me who sees developing for Linux support in gaming such a way - you take the latest Vanilla Ubuntu LTS release (fresh install) and then you port your game/app/engine/whatever to work with that (including the necessary libraries with the packet so it would not f**k up the whole system and would be separate just for this application). Later on expanding your test rig with nvidia/ati/intel whatever graphics settings are missing and adapt the app.
I am no developer, but this seems logical and not such a big deal.
You might give me flack for putting vanilla Ubuntu up there and not Arch/Manjaro or Suse, etc. But the way I see it, Ubuntu and its derivatives are the most solid choice when it comes to developing gaming on linux. (you always have one base, backed up by Canonical, on which to build)
When it runs on Ubuntu, I am 100% sure that the community takes care of any issues that might arise with other OS' like Arch. (ok not dev issues but generally speaking)
If someone has any more experience with this topic, please, elaborate on it... is my way of thoughts generally correct or am I way off?
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