Oh boy, I do love a good rant from a developer. This time it's the C4 engine dropping Linux support (honestly, how many of you have even heard of C4?).
Warning: It's a real rant.
Choice quote from their announcement
QuoteThis decision was made based on the disproportionate cost, both in terms of time and money, that we incur to support Linux relative to a very small return on our investment. This decision was also made to preserve my own sanity since my personal experiences with Linux have been extremely negative and have resulted in huge wastes of time that could have been better spent on more productive tasks. Terathon Software will no longer contribute to the popularity of an operating system that I personally view as inferior in design to both Windows and Mac OS X. Linux has proven to be Frankenstein OS assembled from a disparate array of barely functioning parts with horrible reliability and little potential for future improvement. Time that would have been spent on Linux support will now be used to strengthen our product on platforms with much greater viability.
The comments are just, amazing. One commenter provided this funny image:
And the developer responded with:
QuoteIt's my expert opinion, man.
Oh my, I mean there's being a good developer, and there's being a bit full of yourself.
He has also been dropping gems on his Twitter account:
Finished excision of Linux code from the C4 Engine. Negative 2008 lines. Good riddance.
— Eric Lengyel (@EricLengyel) January 10, 2015I have reached the point where I feel morally obligated to drop all support for Linux.
— Eric Lengyel (@EricLengyel) January 10, 2015Things like this are concerning though, and it is a real issue:
I love it when Ubuntu starts freezing for no good reason right before the login screen. That's high-quality engineering right there.
— Eric Lengyel (@EricLengyel) December 26, 2014I do wonder if it is a hardware or a driver issue, my last freezing issue turned out to be RAM that failed at specific things.
We don't often write about people ranting about Linux, and for one developer making a full bit of kit like C4 it can be time consuming, so we don't have much to say other than "oh well". We still have many more better engines around.
All hail Frankenstein, in Frankenstein we trust. Move along.
P.S. Please try to keep comments reasonable about this topic. Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
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The comments on this article are closed.
Quoting: maodzedunAnd finally, it is completely understandable that a single developer or a small development company would drop Linux. If they're having problems getting the results they want with reasonable amount of time and effort, it is only natural to drop the 1% of the gaming market. Time IS money.
I don't think people here have problems with this guy dropping Linux support for his engine.
The discussion here is about his angry rant about Linux, and that he calls Linux inferior when he obviously don't know a lot about it. Even so, any computer savvy person wouldn't call any main branch of OS inferior (like Linux, Windows, Mac Os), which is quite unfair. There are some buggy Linux OS out there, but then again there are some pretty stable ones. Considering that just about anyone with some skill can make a Linux OS should be taken into consideration. No one but Apple can make Mac OS, and no one but Microsoft can make Windows OS.
And the way he prance around acting like his expert opinion should be placed on a pedestal and worshipped by all, which is evidence that the guy is very arrogant. Any person who uses "expert" to describe their opinion is arrogant. If you're really an expert, you show it by what your opinion is, not labelling it as expert.
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OLucasZanella Jan 14, 2015
The developer says bad things about Linux and on the social network says he is being mistreated by the Linux Community. What the fuck was he expecting? If they want to make it about themselves and their egos that can never be insulted, so just let it go.
Maybe one day he'll realize the stupidity of his comment and apologize, but until then, we have quite a lot of nice Game Engines to play with.
Maybe one day he'll realize the stupidity of his comment and apologize, but until then, we have quite a lot of nice Game Engines to play with.
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This story is pretty much dead by now, but I just want to mention that making such a statement
QuoteWe still have many more better engines around.without actually making an eductated argument about why this engine is worse than some others, just detracted from this already awful article.
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Yes this guy appears very full of himself but I guess this is just what happens when you are frustrated with something and Twitter is too close.
They need blood pressure/stress tests before you are allowed to post!
I can understand putting support on the back-burner because of lack of time or financial reasons but insulting it on Twitter and ripping all the code out is just going to hurt the engine in the long run.
Linux is a free operating system, it is not developed by one company that you can complain to.
If you insult Linux you are directly insulting people's work there is no PR department to handle things.
This is perfectly understandable some people will get riled up and defensive in response.
If I called C4 a "frankenstein" or "inferor" engine I am sure Eric Lengyel would be very upset so what gives him the right to insult other people's (Linux Developers) work but not vice versa?
Starting to say that it effects "reputation of the Linux community" is completely un-acceptable stereotyping and is inciting hatred towards Linux users. Every-time people bring up the "Linux community" they need to be reminded that this is Stereotyping.
I am not associated or responsible for other Linux users, just as gamingonlinux is not responsible for its readers comments.
When people start seeing Linux for its potential and helping out rather than leeching and then complaining as soon as something goes wrong.
For what it is Linux is an amazing Human achievement. Obviously there are issues as everyone has limited time/money and we do not have all of the complete documents for drivers and there are many closed source and distribution chain issues.
They need blood pressure/stress tests before you are allowed to post!
I can understand putting support on the back-burner because of lack of time or financial reasons but insulting it on Twitter and ripping all the code out is just going to hurt the engine in the long run.
Linux is a free operating system, it is not developed by one company that you can complain to.
If you insult Linux you are directly insulting people's work there is no PR department to handle things.
This is perfectly understandable some people will get riled up and defensive in response.
If I called C4 a "frankenstein" or "inferor" engine I am sure Eric Lengyel would be very upset so what gives him the right to insult other people's (Linux Developers) work but not vice versa?
QuoteEric Lengyel @EricLengyel 2h2 hours ago
@gamingonlinux Thanks. Perhaps let your readership know that all their nasty comments aren't helping the reputation of the Linux community?
GamingOnLinux @gamingonlinux 2h2 hours ago
@EricLengyel they are well aware of it i'm sure
Starting to say that it effects "reputation of the Linux community" is completely un-acceptable stereotyping and is inciting hatred towards Linux users. Every-time people bring up the "Linux community" they need to be reminded that this is Stereotyping.
I am not associated or responsible for other Linux users, just as gamingonlinux is not responsible for its readers comments.
When people start seeing Linux for its potential and helping out rather than leeching and then complaining as soon as something goes wrong.
For what it is Linux is an amazing Human achievement. Obviously there are issues as everyone has limited time/money and we do not have all of the complete documents for drivers and there are many closed source and distribution chain issues.
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QuoteYup, sure did. Because there's nothing to "retaliate" against. One guy had a table-flip-rage-quit moment when he finally had enough of having things break for him, and tons of people queued up to stamp on his nuts with combat boots. "Hey man," you may say, "I only kicked him once!" Uh huh, you and about a hundred other people. That's the problem. It makes us look bad. All of us. He needs help (and possibly derision - I won't be using the C4 engine).
What you have here, again is stereotyping and profiling.
Stereotyping leads to hatred and if Linux or Open Source was a religion (which it could be seen to be for some people) comments based toward "Linux Users", "Linux Community", or "Us" would not be acceptable.
I am not associated with other random individual Linux users. Because I have an opinion favouring Linux does not make me a Linux fan or part of the "Linux Community" or "make us look bad". I really do not care what other people do because I cannot control them and it is not in my right to. Some people are just rude whatever their beliefs/cause.
I personally just believe it is better to have a collaborative and open source operating system not controlled by the corporate interests of a company and share holders and currently Linux just happens to be the most active and supported. I agree there are problems with Linux but there are problems with Mac and Windows - Mac has less hardware problems because it is made and distributed for certain types of hardware and Windows because they get more NDA based documents and more companies make drivers and there is more time/money.
It does not mean Linux has no potential and this developer has directly insulted many people's hard work for the last 20 years as a result of his own personal issues. Obviously people who bite back in a rude and less than constructive fashion are wrong (IMHO) but the developer is also in the wrong also for posting an insulting and biased argument then proceeding to stereotype every individual who uses Linux. His basis of opinion for the entire future of Linux is based on one system which could have many edge case issues such as UEFI, Secure Boot, very new hardware or simply user error.
QuoteThis is what's called the appeal to popularity fallacy (argumentum ad populum) - everybody else is doing it, so it's okay for me to do it too. See, the thing is, it's not okay. I don't care what everybody else is doing. Unless of course you actually want to sound like a "Windows fan boi." And I think I speak for all of us when I say dear god, please don't.
Also your argument is just dismissing the point by appealing to fallacy which in itself is a fallacy (argumentum ad logicam). Not everyone has a PhD level of English and "Argumentology"/Dialectics. Just because an argument contains a fallacy does not mean the overall conclusion is not true.
You fail to discuss what is wrong with another person voicing their own opinion in free speech (when other people also have the right to voice their opinion in free speech) - as long as it is not offensive or threatening then it is fine (IMHO). Generally outside of any written rules/laws what is acceptable behaviour is what society concludes. This is known as social convention and is therefore not a fallacy under argumentum ad populum. Historically a way to judge that would be "if other people are doing it then it is acceptable for me to do it also" - provided it is not illegal (this is how cultures and society have developed). Laws and rules then develop because there was many people doing a certain behaviour which was deemed unacceptable by the majority/vote or person in control.
In this case gamingonlinux could choose to forgo people's right to free speech and overly moderate the posts deleting anything that is critical to the developer or does not conform to a certain standard of discussion. But is that gamingonlinux's responsibility or not? Because they choose not to moderate them does that mean the gamingonlinux and anyone who reads it is as bad as those individuals?
QuoteAnd while we're at it, I noticed that someone brought up the fact that wubi isn't supported. I vote that it shouldn't be available for download if it's not supported. If you're going to offer a product as a viable solution to install your software and then orphan the thing, that's just bad policy. You're begging for bad PR and rants like this dev made.
I think you stepped on the point right here. Lets not confuse Ubuntu with Linux here. Linux is NOT a product, no one is selling Linux directly or making money on Linux. (They make money on support or platform based services - Steam or Google Play). It started as a fun project and still is not as a commercial project. Linux developers are extremely busy fixing issues already where Linux already works best - mobile, servers, tv, automobiles, older systems, consoles etc.
The thing is your vote does not count because an individual (could be an corporate entity such as canonical, a non profit or a person) has the right also to do whatever they want (within the law), you are not part of that entity. They made wubi and then maybe did not have time/money or could not continue to support it - it has no relation to Linux what so-ever. Sure getting rid of it would be good but your and the developers issue here is with Canonical not Linux and anyone who uses Linux.
I could make a half complete Linux installer and someone could use it then complain, it does not make it related or associated with Linux or other Linux users. Inciting other Linux users to pressurise me to take down that half complete installer because of their own "reputation" would be unacceptable against free-speech and could be inciting hatred/violence.
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Quoting: anthonylinuxStarting to say that it effects "reputation of the Linux community" is completely un-acceptable stereotyping and is inciting hatred towards Linux users. Every-time people bring up the "Linux community" they need to be reminded that this is Stereotyping.
I am not associated or responsible for other Linux users, just as gamingonlinux is not responsible for its readers comments.
This is exactly my problem. I hate stereotyping and generalizing of any group. Me using Linux doesn't mean I should be judged by the actions of other Linux users, or they judged because of my actions. Linux users have been facing this crap for a long, long time, so I don't understand why people act all shocked when oppressed people lash out. I see no problem with aggression or assertiveness in writing or speech, as long as that it's reasonable.
If people approach me with honest criticism and respect I give the same back, and if people don't I might not care, but if people approach with false facts and disrespect I will get aggressive, and assertive, and I don't care if people don't like that. I have as much right to defend what I like as other people have a right to speak up against it.
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To all the white knights:
That's your opinion. I say he does deserve what he gets. You are not a or the God, you do not make rules for the Linux community or rules on internet etiquette please understand, that's your viewpoint and opinion. He was a dick and got treated like crap for being one, that's Newtons third law (in karma form). If it's a matter of shining a negative light on the Linux community, that's a joke. As I said, you can go on any game or hardware forum, any forum really and read all the rage and ranting and people downright being mean to each other. Expecting all Linux users to just sing Kumbaya and hold hands while Fstars like this guy trash talk, sorry but you're ridiculous. So, try to sound high and mighty, talk down to those reacting to unjustified slander like children* and generally be a white knight( L A M E).
*intended to be read both ways because it's true.
That's your opinion. I say he does deserve what he gets. You are not a or the God, you do not make rules for the Linux community or rules on internet etiquette please understand, that's your viewpoint and opinion. He was a dick and got treated like crap for being one, that's Newtons third law (in karma form). If it's a matter of shining a negative light on the Linux community, that's a joke. As I said, you can go on any game or hardware forum, any forum really and read all the rage and ranting and people downright being mean to each other. Expecting all Linux users to just sing Kumbaya and hold hands while Fstars like this guy trash talk, sorry but you're ridiculous. So, try to sound high and mighty, talk down to those reacting to unjustified slander like children* and generally be a white knight( L A M E).
*intended to be read both ways because it's true.
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ElectricPrism Jan 16, 2015
Their loss.
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This guy prefers windows LOL no more words needed.
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