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PayPalIn a move that is not even remotely surprising to me, Valve has started rolling out the ability for mod authors to sell their works. I think it’s a nice move, and could even help some even more amazing mods be created. You already had some mods release as a full paid game on Steam, but they still required you own specific games.
It was a given that Steam Workshop would work towards this, and I’m surprised anyone is shocked by it. The first game to allow it is Skyrim, so it doesn't mean much for us Linux gamers yet, but in future we hope to see it rolled out to many more games.
This has already been met with a ton of negative feedback from a whiny crowd, and there’s even a petition going against it. No surprise that it has over 24,000 votes already, but it won’t stop Valve, and it shouldn’t. It’s a good business decision, and the whiny crowd will get over it eventually.
QuoteThe workshop is a place for people to share content with each other they made so all can enjoy it for free.
Since recently this is not the case for The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim Workshop. Valve has now erected a paywall for the mods.
Mods should be a free creation. Creations made by people who wish to add to the game so others can also enjoy said creation with the game.
We need to unite and reject this act by Valve. Unite have Valve remove the paid content of the Workshop.
It seems the creator of the petition feels that mods are supposed to be free, but I completely disagree. Mods can end up creating an entirely new campaign, or even an entirely different game, so why should developers have to release them for free? They shouldn't.
I just don’t get the big hoohaa about it. Nothing stops people releasing mods for free as the petition suggests by calling it a “paywall”, and there’s even a simple to use filtering system to filter-out paid mods.
What are your thoughts?
Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
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Well it seems that 75% of the purchase goes to the developer so I don't see how they could complain or sue... takes that off the table probably should of actually looked into this more but eh... modding isn't something I care about.
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I think this is just misplaced anger. It's giving people the same scent as things like in-game stores and DLC. People are just getting so sick and tired of that stuff that something like this gets caught in the crossfire.
My initial gut reaction was the same, I was about to get upset at this until I read what Liam wrote and thought about it a little more.
It's actually not that big of a deal and I wish all the people upset at this would focus their effort on something more worthwhile, like the actual game breaking monetization of some games.
My initial gut reaction was the same, I was about to get upset at this until I read what Liam wrote and thought about it a little more.
It's actually not that big of a deal and I wish all the people upset at this would focus their effort on something more worthwhile, like the actual game breaking monetization of some games.
2 Likes, Who?
HonorEDnlK 24 Apr 2015
Why are they using this method? Wouldn't it be better to add some type of "donate to this mod's creator" and a"request update" button? That way good and wanted mods would be supported and unwanted ones wouldn't, it would kind of meet both sides at the middle wouldn't it? Dev gets paid, user gets free mod (and can send money if they like or want it to stay alive)
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Maybe we should just focus on the topic at hand and steer away from GG for now? It tends to be an explosive topic.
Yeah, that's probably for the best.
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mrpoundsign 24 Apr 2015
The argument about using assets you don't own is silly. If you release a game on Steam and you use an engine or assets you didn't pay for, then you run into the same problem.
Don't do it so you don't get sued... or if you do, make your mod free. Making it possible to get paid for them doesn't mean you have to.
Don't do it so you don't get sued... or if you do, make your mod free. Making it possible to get paid for them doesn't mean you have to.
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There's several problems that we already start noticing:
Valve is removing mods that have donation links (because valve and bedesda aren't getting a slice of the cake)
There's mods making money using content "stolen" from free mods.
There's mods making money using copyrighted material.
Valve is removing mods that have donation links (because valve and bedesda aren't getting a slice of the cake)
There's mods making money using content "stolen" from free mods.
There's mods making money using copyrighted material.
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commodore256 24 Apr 2015
I have no problem with paying for mods, but I think this will open the floodgates to really bad micro-transactions. I have no problem with paying $1 for an item or weapon mod that's not lore friendly, but is from another IP. I'd pay $1 for a legal Buster Sword in Skyrim, I would also pay $30 for Morrowind Overhaul and I feel like I should be donating money to Scrawl from OpenMW or Sven for his work.
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Some thoughts...
Garry's Mod is a game based on the Source engine sold on Steam. They have problably the biggest most used workshop on Steam since the game revolves around modding -- you basically don't have a full game when you buy it before you start browsing the workshop for more content. You might even say that Garry's Mod is a commercial mod for Half-Life 2, released [10 years](http://www.garrysmod.com/history/) before Steam even started thinking about a workshop. There's already external websites, such as http://scriptfodder.com and former Codehire, on which you can pay for mods/addons. It's not the same as what Skyrims workshop where players can buy addons, but are mostly directed at server administrators instead.
In my opinion, they work. Because not everyone can upload to them... You must pay for a license before you are able to sell, and everything is heavily moderated (I've got my own try at it declined for being "bad" ) . There's tons of extremely well made addons with authors who keep them updated whenever something breaks or Garry's Mod gets a new update, which would most probably not exist if they could not get payed. See [VCMod Main](https://scriptfodder.com/scripts/view/21) which as the most sold item on Scriptfodder have over 1100 purchases at a price of $19.99 (normally $25). It was released over 7 months ago, and was last updated 2 weeks ago which fixed a breaking update for the game.
But they also fragment the community, which isn't the most healthy already (in my opinion). Want a anti-hack addon? Scriptfodder. Custom chatbox? Scriptfodder.
I mean some scripts makes a lot of sense for selling, most of which are purely server related with the purpose of keeping players. But Skyrims workshop...[Weapons](http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=429098612), [graphic enhancing mods](http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=428272802) and a bundle more expensive than the game itself? At some point it just stops making sense.
That's my thoughts as a long-time Garry's Mod player and server owner. I can also point at Metamod/[Sourcemod ](https://www.sourcemod.net/) which require [all mods to be released under gpl](https://www.sourcemod.net/license.php), commercial or not. Licensing was one thing that led they anticheat plugin (SMAC) to [be taking down](https://www.sourcemod.net/license.php) (inderectly), but that [does not mean there isn't a lot of activity](https://forums.alliedmods.net/forumdisplay.php?f=110) in their release forum.
Welp, this got longer than I thought but it's something which means a lot for me for some reason, and I felt like I had to say something.
---- Post edit
Can we also stop talking about GamerGate? This does not relate to this in any way. And for copyrighted material, Garry's Mod workshop is a good example of this. Simply search for "[ripped](http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/browse/?appid=4000&searchtext=ripped&childpublishedfileid=0&browsesort=trend§ion=readytouseitems)" and you will find copyrighted material. Now take a look at YouTube after users being able to get add-money from videos, add a DMCA-clusterfck and take a guess at the future... Sooner or later Steam WILL need to moderate the workshop, especially if people are able to make money from it, and we all know stories about [support](http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/03/16/valve-steam-customer-service/)/[moderation ](http://www.gog.com/forum/general/are_steam_forum_moderators_assholes_for_a_reason)on Steam.
Garry's Mod is a game based on the Source engine sold on Steam. They have problably the biggest most used workshop on Steam since the game revolves around modding -- you basically don't have a full game when you buy it before you start browsing the workshop for more content. You might even say that Garry's Mod is a commercial mod for Half-Life 2, released [10 years](http://www.garrysmod.com/history/) before Steam even started thinking about a workshop. There's already external websites, such as http://scriptfodder.com and former Codehire, on which you can pay for mods/addons. It's not the same as what Skyrims workshop where players can buy addons, but are mostly directed at server administrators instead.
In my opinion, they work. Because not everyone can upload to them... You must pay for a license before you are able to sell, and everything is heavily moderated (I've got my own try at it declined for being "bad" ) . There's tons of extremely well made addons with authors who keep them updated whenever something breaks or Garry's Mod gets a new update, which would most probably not exist if they could not get payed. See [VCMod Main](https://scriptfodder.com/scripts/view/21) which as the most sold item on Scriptfodder have over 1100 purchases at a price of $19.99 (normally $25). It was released over 7 months ago, and was last updated 2 weeks ago which fixed a breaking update for the game.
But they also fragment the community, which isn't the most healthy already (in my opinion). Want a anti-hack addon? Scriptfodder. Custom chatbox? Scriptfodder.
I mean some scripts makes a lot of sense for selling, most of which are purely server related with the purpose of keeping players. But Skyrims workshop...[Weapons](http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=429098612), [graphic enhancing mods](http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=428272802) and a bundle more expensive than the game itself? At some point it just stops making sense.
That's my thoughts as a long-time Garry's Mod player and server owner. I can also point at Metamod/[Sourcemod ](https://www.sourcemod.net/) which require [all mods to be released under gpl](https://www.sourcemod.net/license.php), commercial or not. Licensing was one thing that led they anticheat plugin (SMAC) to [be taking down](https://www.sourcemod.net/license.php) (inderectly), but that [does not mean there isn't a lot of activity](https://forums.alliedmods.net/forumdisplay.php?f=110) in their release forum.
Welp, this got longer than I thought but it's something which means a lot for me for some reason, and I felt like I had to say something.
---- Post edit
Can we also stop talking about GamerGate? This does not relate to this in any way. And for copyrighted material, Garry's Mod workshop is a good example of this. Simply search for "[ripped](http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/browse/?appid=4000&searchtext=ripped&childpublishedfileid=0&browsesort=trend§ion=readytouseitems)" and you will find copyrighted material. Now take a look at YouTube after users being able to get add-money from videos, add a DMCA-clusterfck and take a guess at the future... Sooner or later Steam WILL need to moderate the workshop, especially if people are able to make money from it, and we all know stories about [support](http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/03/16/valve-steam-customer-service/)/[moderation ](http://www.gog.com/forum/general/are_steam_forum_moderators_assholes_for_a_reason)on Steam.
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Okay so I looked deeply into this issue which I wish I did to begin with...
So ultimately, I don't care that things that used to be free are now pay for, if someone puts time into something you can't expect them to always just give it to you... Just don't play their mods if you don't think it's worth it.
That said the deeper issues are pretty obvious.
Mods that use other mods/paks being payed for.
Mods with more than one author.
Mods that can break the game or break other mods (A good reddit post said it's going to be like gabling on if your mod)
Early access mods... yes this is already a thing... sweet lizard Jesus.
Mods being posted by people other than their author (also already a thing).
A plethora of gateways this initiative could open.
Eh screw it I'm too fucking old to care anymore.
So ultimately, I don't care that things that used to be free are now pay for, if someone puts time into something you can't expect them to always just give it to you... Just don't play their mods if you don't think it's worth it.
That said the deeper issues are pretty obvious.
Mods that use other mods/paks being payed for.
Mods with more than one author.
Mods that can break the game or break other mods (A good reddit post said it's going to be like gabling on if your mod)
Early access mods... yes this is already a thing... sweet lizard Jesus.
Mods being posted by people other than their author (also already a thing).
A plethora of gateways this initiative could open.
Eh screw it I'm too fucking old to care anymore.
1 Likes, Who?
Vote with your wallet people. If you are ok with this practice.. then by all means, pay for the mods you want. If you are against it, then don't buy them. Skyrim has remained a relevant game because of the mods. Personally I think they just signed Skyrim's death certificate.
Are there really many people playing skyrim for the sake of playing skyrim anymore? What I always see is posts about "ooh, ahh, OVER 9000!!!! mods and it looks moar real than real life brah!!!" some screen shots are taken and posted on /r/pcmasterrace and that is about it.
Something I've not seen anyone mention is that you can still just get your mods from nexusmods and use a mod manager. That is how I've always done it myself... I've never used the workshop personally. At the end of the day Valve can and will do whatever they want. They lose absolutely no money in this, so if only a few players pay for mods and the rest stop using paid mods then that $$ from the few who paid for them is more than they had before.
For my last $0.02 on this.. mods on torrent sites in 3...2...1...
Are there really many people playing skyrim for the sake of playing skyrim anymore? What I always see is posts about "ooh, ahh, OVER 9000!!!! mods and it looks moar real than real life brah!!!" some screen shots are taken and posted on /r/pcmasterrace and that is about it.
Something I've not seen anyone mention is that you can still just get your mods from nexusmods and use a mod manager. That is how I've always done it myself... I've never used the workshop personally. At the end of the day Valve can and will do whatever they want. They lose absolutely no money in this, so if only a few players pay for mods and the rest stop using paid mods then that $$ from the few who paid for them is more than they had before.
For my last $0.02 on this.. mods on torrent sites in 3...2...1...
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Valve and other game developers offer a new right to change their source code and now to sell the changes. That a good news to everyone ... expect some idiots.
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This also unfortunately means that some mods will be locked onto the steam platform. If a mod author is charging for their mod on steam, I doubt they'll be packaging another version which they can't sell off steam for non steam versions of games.
[Edit] Anyone know if that also means steam is(or is going to) stick DRM onto these paid mods to prevent them from being copied and used on non steam installations or other installs where the account doesn't own the mod?
[Edit] Anyone know if that also means steam is(or is going to) stick DRM onto these paid mods to prevent them from being copied and used on non steam installations or other installs where the account doesn't own the mod?
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It's about time. A lot of people put hard work into creating some very good and original mods. They go as far as new story, and sometimes even total conversions. They deserve to be able to charge for their work, just like any game creator on Steam.
But I don't think every mod is going to go paid... so stop being silly.
But I don't think every mod is going to go paid... so stop being silly.
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Anyways back to the subject, I don't see how this is all good. Biggest issue is that mods are not made by the developer like DLC is, so when a new version of a game comes out a mod might no longer work but yet you paid for it. An even better example is how Techland even stopped all possible modding for a while. What if certain game servers requires you to have the following 20 mods installed to log on ?
I do agree that there are some brilliant mods around, and the people who made these often end up working in the industry thanks to that mod.
I know that Valve/Steam are slowly becoming like gods here and yes they did and do a lot for Linux but the other places that sell the real DRM free stuff are left out as you can be pretty sure copying/downloading a steam paid mod no longer will work.
If the 25% for modder en 75% for company is true then basicly its just another way for the company to make extra money over the back of modders without having to do or promise anything for it.
I do agree that there are some brilliant mods around, and the people who made these often end up working in the industry thanks to that mod.
I know that Valve/Steam are slowly becoming like gods here and yes they did and do a lot for Linux but the other places that sell the real DRM free stuff are left out as you can be pretty sure copying/downloading a steam paid mod no longer will work.
If the 25% for modder en 75% for company is true then basicly its just another way for the company to make extra money over the back of modders without having to do or promise anything for it.
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This is dreadful news! Mods should be free... I'm okay with modders asking for donations but putting your mod behind a paywall kinda crosses a line for me.
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Well it seems that 75% of the purchase goes to the developer
75% is the share of Valve.
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2015/04/23/steam-workshop-lets-users-sell-mods-but-only-shares-25-percent-of-revenue/
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Citiroller 25 Apr 2015
I'm totally fine with paying for mods, but not when valve is taking 75%. If it would be around 10% that even would be fine.
But the mod author will only receive 25% of the money? That's just unfair in my opinion and valve should be rich enough to be able to steal less money from their own community.
That's just my opinion. I would pay for mods when more than 50% of my money actually would go to the mod developer. But as it is right now that's just fucking greedy by valve.
But the mod author will only receive 25% of the money? That's just unfair in my opinion and valve should be rich enough to be able to steal less money from their own community.
That's just my opinion. I would pay for mods when more than 50% of my money actually would go to the mod developer. But as it is right now that's just fucking greedy by valve.
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few more interesting links about this:
http://kotaku.com/paid-skyrim-mod-turns-into-a-clusterfuck-1699913114
https://www.reddit.com/r/skyrimmods/comments/33qcaj/the_experiment_has_failed_my_exit_from_the/
http://forums.bethsoft.com/topic/1516829-discussion-for-workshop-paid-mods-thread-5/?p=23943699
http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/news/12444/?
http://kotaku.com/paid-skyrim-mod-turns-into-a-clusterfuck-1699913114
https://www.reddit.com/r/skyrimmods/comments/33qcaj/the_experiment_has_failed_my_exit_from_the/
http://forums.bethsoft.com/topic/1516829-discussion-for-workshop-paid-mods-thread-5/?p=23943699
http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/news/12444/?
1 Likes, Who?
The bit you said was asking Liam to apologize, which he did. He has sent a PM to the person in question and tweeted about it. Liam considered it settled and thus cleaned up the comment section. It could have been communicated a bit better and probably should have been, but it is what it is. Hopefully we can avoid these types of situations in the future.Anyways back to the subject, I don't see how this is all good. Biggest issue is that mods are not made by the developer like DLC is, so when a new version of a game comes out a mod might no longer work but yet you paid for it. An even better example is how Techland even stopped all possible modding for a while. What if certain game servers requires you to have the following 20 mods installed to log on ?
I do agree that there are some brilliant mods around, and the people who made these often end up working in the industry thanks to that mod.
I know that Valve/Steam are slowly becoming like gods here and yes they did and do a lot for Linux but the other places that sell the real DRM free stuff are left out as you can be pretty sure copying/downloading a steam paid mod no longer will work.
If the 25% for modder en 75% for company is true then basicly its just another way for the company to make extra money over the back of modders without having to do or promise anything for it.
Ummm I wrote a bit more then the above, are we now in the business of censorship because its something you did not like ? And there I thought I was being quiet neutral about it... sad
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Yes I edited the comment, I cleaned up all comments. We moderate comments here to keep the peace, it's all in our rules if people pay attention to such things (people should really read our rules).
I apologised to whoever it was I said was being an idiot, it's something that's not even remotely harsh where I am from, so I will put it down to a difference of language, and simply learn from it (you can't get across your tone in internet comments without a million smilie faces it seems).
This is the last of it, all comments on topic please, I cleaned it up for a reason. Go back to bashing Valve or whatever, and not me, please?
I apologised to whoever it was I said was being an idiot, it's something that's not even remotely harsh where I am from, so I will put it down to a difference of language, and simply learn from it (you can't get across your tone in internet comments without a million smilie faces it seems).
This is the last of it, all comments on topic please, I cleaned it up for a reason. Go back to bashing Valve or whatever, and not me, please?
1 Likes, Who?
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