Not every experiment of Valve's will work, and this time it's paid mods that are being killed off. They will be refunding everyone too.
QuoteWe're going to remove the payment feature from the Skyrim workshop. For anyone who spent money on a mod, we'll be refunding you the complete amount. We talked to the team at Bethesda and they agree.
We've done this because it's clear we didn't understand exactly what we were doing. We've been shipping many features over the years aimed at allowing community creators to receive a share of the rewards, and in the past, they've been received well. It's obvious now that this case is different.
To help you understand why we thought this was a good idea, our main goals were to allow mod makers the opportunity to work on their mods full time if they wanted to, and to encourage developers to provide better support to their mod communities. We thought this would result in better mods for everyone, both free & paid. We wanted more great mods becoming great products, like Dota, Counter-strike, DayZ, and Killing Floor, and we wanted that to happen organically for any mod maker who wanted to take a shot at it.
But we underestimated the differences between our previously successful revenue sharing models, and the addition of paid mods to Skyrim's workshop. We understand our own game's communities pretty well, but stepping into an established, years old modding community in Skyrim was probably not the right place to start iterating. We think this made us miss the mark pretty badly, even though we believe there's a useful feature somewhere here.
Now that you've backed a dump truck of feedback onto our inboxes, we'll be chewing through that, but if you have any further thoughts let us know.
Source
I imagine this will make a lot of people happy. I hope they come back with a donation system of some sorts, as it would still be nice to reward modders.
I think this was for the best, as the backlash over this was just growing every day. It's nice to see Valve understand they don't have to stick to their guns on everything too. Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
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20 comments
QuoteWe've done this because it's clear we didn't understand exactly what we were doing.
Hope we won't read similar things when it comes to Linux/SteamOS.
7 Likes, Who?
I hope for great success of dota 2 mods. I really like modding and mods and I will pay for those modes if I can.
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I think a "pay what you want" or a donate button, as they have talked about recently would be a more positive way to provide money to mod-makers.
3 Likes, Who?
I don't care about the way I just want to have the opportunity to pay them.
2 Likes, Who?
Dontate button is the best way to go honestly; some way to ask once, *after* you've played with the mod enabled for a few hours, for a small donation would also be pretty good.
3 Likes, Who?
Quoting: kalinI don't care about the way I just want to have the opportunity to pay them.
I would still like to see an option like this in the workshop, if Valve didn't take too much of the amount donated anyway.
2 Likes, Who?
Quoting: edgleyDontate button is the best way to go honestly; some way to ask once, *after* you've played with the mod enabled for a few hours, for a small donation would also be pretty good.I like this. As long as you don't have to click through such screens often. But something like "This session you've given the following mods a try: <insert list of mods>. If you liked them, why not donate to the makers?"
Clicking on an item in that list will point you to a page where you can donate, and are informed about how your donation will be split between the game dev, the modder, and Valve.
The matter of reused stuff from other mods still needs a solution. Maybe the mod donation page should have information on what other mods (if any) this mod used? Hard to find a waterproof, manageable and fair system when money is involved..
In the end, Valve needs to be transparent on this so that modders and non-modders alike can help them make these systems better. Valve doesn't do too bad on that I guess. A good relation with your community only serves you in the long run.
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QuoteI hope they come back with a donation system of some sorts, as it would still be nice to reward modders.I hope so too. A good interface (like Humble Bundle for instance) can change anything.
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The 75/25 split between makers and modders was a horrible idea. Should have been in reverse no?
1 Likes, Who?
They should have made a separate community for paid mods. I don't agree with the thought that paid mods is bad, but I think the execution was really poor. And I think that the mod creators deserve a bigger cut of the cake than the meagre 25%.
1 Likes, Who?
supermonkey77 Apr 28, 2015
If Valve seriously rework the Workshop for the people who use mods (get rid of auto update and maybe a manager of some description embedded into the workshop) and switch the earnings to 75% for the modder, 20% to game dev and 5% Valve I would be more than happy for the pay system to come back.
They would need to seriously moderate the new mods coming in to avoid scams. Ideally they would make the game publisher have to port over to SteamOS too as part of the deal.
That'd work for me
They would need to seriously moderate the new mods coming in to avoid scams. Ideally they would make the game publisher have to port over to SteamOS too as part of the deal.
That'd work for me
2 Likes, Who?
It's stupid to remove the system completely, in my opinion. I mean, I know a lot of very minor mods were behind a paywall and that was pathetic... but authors that devote hundreds of hours to a mod (such as a total conversion) do deserve to be compensated for their work.
I'm sure Valve is probably doing research on how to meet this end in a different light.
I'm sure Valve is probably doing research on how to meet this end in a different light.
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I thought they were considering a donation system, I hope they still implement that (and not with 75% going to Valve and Bethesda!), in itself I think the community at large was not against modders getting paid, but it felt like a money grab from Valve and Bethesda (at least that's why I was against).
TL;DR: Glad, but hope they implement a donation system!
TL;DR: Glad, but hope they implement a donation system!
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Fallout 4 will come with a paid workshop from the start, thats what my glass ball is telling me anyways.
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Didn't it used to be that mods were only OK because they modders weren't making money off of them? I mean, they are using the games IP in their mods. It just seems strange to me to all of a sudden change the way the whole modding ecosystem works.
Oh, wait... 75%, I get it now!
Oh, wait... 75%, I get it now!
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Lesson learned it seems, at least they realized this quickly and didn't procrastinate on it. Hopefully we will see a new version that is more fair for the modder and of course start this on a newer product with hopefully the donation option.
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I am not a Valve shill, but I think that Valve showed themselves as a great company, not afraid to back down when their experiments go wrong. It shows that they do listen to the community...
About the 25% cut that the developers were getting, I am sure that Valve only had a portion of the other 75%, the rest probably went to the owners of the asssets & IP of the game.
I then went on to think about the portion that artists get in the music industry from the sale of an album.
how much is it? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-23840744
13% WOW, that is what the Artist gets from the sale of a CD...That 25% cut suddenly seems quite generous... OK, I don't want to insult the creators of mods in any way, but it still makes on ponder.
I think the payment system was porly implemented, and I hope that soon, we will have a way to reward the modding community with dollars, not free beer.
About the 25% cut that the developers were getting, I am sure that Valve only had a portion of the other 75%, the rest probably went to the owners of the asssets & IP of the game.
I then went on to think about the portion that artists get in the music industry from the sale of an album.
how much is it? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-23840744
13% WOW, that is what the Artist gets from the sale of a CD...That 25% cut suddenly seems quite generous... OK, I don't want to insult the creators of mods in any way, but it still makes on ponder.
I think the payment system was porly implemented, and I hope that soon, we will have a way to reward the modding community with dollars, not free beer.
1 Likes, Who?
I seriously still though this was a good idea, it's probably just not the right time.
Also on the 25% cut, Gabe did say that Valve takes around the same thing as other micropayment systems, so that's around 25% and I think that's fair, since they do all the job of selling your stuff while you sit there waiting for the money to come. So that mean the other 50% were for Bethesda, it's a lot but they did create the engine, they did create the assets and they did create the tools that allow people to make the mods, so it just right that they should have share of the profit. On very popular games and with a popular mod you could still make enough money to not have to have another job, which was the main idea, they didn't want it to become too much of an opportunity for easy money. Too bad that didn't work, maybe donations will but if it's done through Steam, Valve will still take a cut.
Also on the 25% cut, Gabe did say that Valve takes around the same thing as other micropayment systems, so that's around 25% and I think that's fair, since they do all the job of selling your stuff while you sit there waiting for the money to come. So that mean the other 50% were for Bethesda, it's a lot but they did create the engine, they did create the assets and they did create the tools that allow people to make the mods, so it just right that they should have share of the profit. On very popular games and with a popular mod you could still make enough money to not have to have another job, which was the main idea, they didn't want it to become too much of an opportunity for easy money. Too bad that didn't work, maybe donations will but if it's done through Steam, Valve will still take a cut.
1 Likes, Who?
I've heard this is common behavior from Valve. I'm a fairly recent Steam user so I can't vouch for the validity of this but many people have stated that Steam was a complete mess at first and thanks to lots of changes fueled by community feedback they finally made it an enjoyable experience by hacking off the dud features and implementing the most requested ones. From the start it sounds like they've not been afraid to reverse course, admit mistakes, and rectify them.
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After seeing how the Internet exploded over this paid mod thing (which I'm against for reasons I'll go into more deeply if people want), I'm not hearing good reasons why modders should be paid for what they do. And I mean really good ones. Stay with me for a bit. It'll make sense. I promise.
I have no problem with people being paid for their work. That's basic economics. But the pro-pay story goes like this: Ifmodders *ahem* content creators pour all their time and effort into their creations, they should receive compensation for doing so. They need money to survive, and by not being able to monetize their creations, it puts them in a lurch. Now that this budding business opportunity has been knocked on the head, they can't afford to create anymore. Ergo, the mods are going away because they're starving to death. That's the black-and-white formulation of the argument.
I call horse puckey. These same people weren't complaining at all one week ago. Modders have made mods for years without this paywall nonsense, and just look at where we are now. I think gaming is doing fan-freaking-tastic, and I look forward to its future.
But I have a question that I haven't heard anybody else asking: What if nobody wants to download paid mods? By that I mean what if the pay system is put back in place and all these modders come out of the woodwork and make all sorts of content anticipating a profit ... and nobody buys their crap - or even downloads it? What if it just sits listlessly on the download page until it succumbs to bit-rot, forlorn and forgotten by the wider gaming world?
This is the flip side of the capitalist utopia that nobody is talking about. Mods are not required for a game (it's the other way 'round). They're just not. What is being created is, by definition, an unnecessary product. I believe the Loyal Opposition is forgetting some lessons in basic economics. Any paid-mod system is going to be user-driven, NOT creator-driven. Unless I miss my guess, modders are looking at download numbers and falsely equating them to a $.99 sale if only they had the opportunity to make that a reality. But now since their lives and finances are in shambles as a result of Valve's decision to abort, they're going to have to just quit making mods.
But here's the thing: Putting a price tag on your mod throws up a barrier to entry. All the people who would have downloaded your mod if it were free aren't going to get in line for what you're selling. Some will, but I would be surprised to see this number approach even 10%. According to the Internet, the "Click to Donate" button has been around on mods for quite a while, and less than 1% make those donations. Why?
Not to put too fine a point on things, but have you seen the vast majority of mods in the first place? They are of a certain quality to be sure (that's the nicest way I know how to say it). They're not worth buying. I freely admit that there exists some mod content that I might purchase, but only if it were complete and bug free. It couldn't bork my save games, and it would have to be supported for at least a year. By my calculus, that equates to exactly no mods on the market at present. Were Skywind or Skyblivion actually working, I'd go for it. They're not. Much as I look at my children's coloring pages from school with admiration and pride (even going so far as to hang them on the refrigerator), they're not Picassos and I'm not shelling out cash for them.
Short version: It would take a product at least as good as the content they are modding in the first place to get me to part with my money.
To charge for your work is to sell a product. If you cannot handle the notion that people might not want to buy from you (and indeed, do not have to), welcome to real life. If you're looking to sell your work, it'd better damned well be outstanding work - the kind that you could sell independently of the original game ... just like the people who made the original game.
I have no problem with people being paid for their work. That's basic economics. But the pro-pay story goes like this: If
I call horse puckey. These same people weren't complaining at all one week ago. Modders have made mods for years without this paywall nonsense, and just look at where we are now. I think gaming is doing fan-freaking-tastic, and I look forward to its future.
But I have a question that I haven't heard anybody else asking: What if nobody wants to download paid mods? By that I mean what if the pay system is put back in place and all these modders come out of the woodwork and make all sorts of content anticipating a profit ... and nobody buys their crap - or even downloads it? What if it just sits listlessly on the download page until it succumbs to bit-rot, forlorn and forgotten by the wider gaming world?
This is the flip side of the capitalist utopia that nobody is talking about. Mods are not required for a game (it's the other way 'round). They're just not. What is being created is, by definition, an unnecessary product. I believe the Loyal Opposition is forgetting some lessons in basic economics. Any paid-mod system is going to be user-driven, NOT creator-driven. Unless I miss my guess, modders are looking at download numbers and falsely equating them to a $.99 sale if only they had the opportunity to make that a reality. But now since their lives and finances are in shambles as a result of Valve's decision to abort, they're going to have to just quit making mods.
But here's the thing: Putting a price tag on your mod throws up a barrier to entry. All the people who would have downloaded your mod if it were free aren't going to get in line for what you're selling. Some will, but I would be surprised to see this number approach even 10%. According to the Internet, the "Click to Donate" button has been around on mods for quite a while, and less than 1% make those donations. Why?
Not to put too fine a point on things, but have you seen the vast majority of mods in the first place? They are of a certain quality to be sure (that's the nicest way I know how to say it). They're not worth buying. I freely admit that there exists some mod content that I might purchase, but only if it were complete and bug free. It couldn't bork my save games, and it would have to be supported for at least a year. By my calculus, that equates to exactly no mods on the market at present. Were Skywind or Skyblivion actually working, I'd go for it. They're not. Much as I look at my children's coloring pages from school with admiration and pride (even going so far as to hang them on the refrigerator), they're not Picassos and I'm not shelling out cash for them.
Short version: It would take a product at least as good as the content they are modding in the first place to get me to part with my money.
To charge for your work is to sell a product. If you cannot handle the notion that people might not want to buy from you (and indeed, do not have to), welcome to real life. If you're looking to sell your work, it'd better damned well be outstanding work - the kind that you could sell independently of the original game ... just like the people who made the original game.
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