Larian Studios Working On A New Game While Divinity: Original Sin Is Still Not On Linux

Well, you care but not enough to enable the project with your support. Does that sound better? As I said, without backers they won't be made at all.

No, that doesn't sound better. You're trying really hard to make me sound bad here.

Someone not departing with their money for promises and nothing more does not mean they don't care. Maybe I simply have much higher priorities with my money? Or maybe I don't feel like "investing" in risky projects that often have problems like this is a good idea?

No, that doesn't sound better. You're trying really hard to make me sound bad here.

Why bad? It's not like anyone is required to participate in those projects. But those who want to see them made - do (since that very participation enables them).

Or maybe I don't feel like "investing" in risky projects that often have problems like this is a good idea?

That's exactly what I'm saying. Those who care enough about those projects are willing to risk their investment, since they know that otherwise those projects won't be made at all.

And I'm not sure there is any indication that such problems occur often. There are a lot of successful crowdfunded releases with Linux versions.

No, that doesn't sound better. You're trying really hard to make me sound bad here.

Why bad? It's not like anyone is required to participate in those projects. But those who want to see them made - do (since that very participation enables them).

You're saying I don't care, when I obviously do, or I wouldn't be here.

Or maybe I don't feel like "investing" in risky projects that often have problems like this is a good idea?

That's exactly what I'm saying. Those who care enough about those projects are willing to risk their investment, since they know that otherwise those projects won't be made at all.

And I'm not sure there is any indication that such problems occur often. There are a lot of successful crowdfunded releases with Linux versions.

Again, if someone doesn't support Kickstarter, it doesn't mean they don't care. It means they don't pay out money on nothing but promises.

This argument is getting silly now, so I shall not participate in it with you further, I've made my point several times.

You're saying I don't care, when I obviously do, or I wouldn't be here. <...>


Again, if someone doesn't support Kickstarter, it doesn't mean they don't care. It means they don't pay out money on nothing but promises.

It means they simply don't care enough or think that prospects of success are so low, there is no point to bother. Others care enough and expect a successful outcome. It's not silly, that's just how it is.

You're saying I don't care, when I obviously do, or I wouldn't be here. &lt;...&gt;


Again, if someone doesn't support Kickstarter, it doesn't mean they don't care. It means they don't pay out money on nothing but promises.

It means they simply don't care enough or think that prospects of success are so low, there is no point to bother. Others care enough and expect a successful outcome. It's not silly, that's just how it is.

I said I wouldn't participate again, but this really will be my last on it, because this is going too far now. To be frank I think your point of view is extremely unreasonable.

Now you've changed from they "don't care", to they "don't care enough"...*sigh*

There's a big difference between saying someone doesn't care to just having varying levels of interest. I care about all Linux games, but Divinity is not a Linux game right now. A year after the Windows release, and it's still just words. I am interested in it, and may even buy it when they eventually release it.

Does that mean I don't care because I didn't back their and others Kickstarters? Hell no it doesn't. It means I spend my money on games that already exist for Linux. I like to play games, not play waiting games.

What's not clear? Those who say they care, but don't support the project indirectly cause it to fail (by their inaction) if that project doesn't get enough backers. I.e. in the end - they don't care enough. Saying "I care, but won't support you" is pretty useless for that very project which wasn't made.

Again, it's not up to the people caring to convince the project, it's up to the project to convince the people caring to give money.

Of course in order to gain support they need to convince you that the project is worth it, but I'm not talking about that. Liam and some others above said no crowdfunded project should be supported, because there is always risk (no matter what they can convince you about). That's plain wrong.

Also, keep in mind that making a campaign itself is something that many of these developers never did before. So how well they run it can vary depending on their experience.

Here is a video about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBR6TOdb73g

Is there any data? I'm not sure about "too many times". At least not amongst the projects that I personally backed. I guess may be someone made some global research on this.

Is there any data? I'm not sure about "too many times". At least not amongst the projects that I personally backed. I guess may be someone made some global research on this.

I haven't crunched the numbers on it, but you'd probably get a good approximation by comparing promised and delivered from this list of Kickstarter funded games on Steam (some delivered games might not be on Steam). I have a couple of experiences with failure to deliver for Linux, but most have been good, so I'm still happy to back campaigns when I feel it's reasonably safe to assume the developers will be able to deliver.

I'm fine with people not wanting to risk the money Kickstarting games. I understand their hesitation. I do find it funny though how many people I know who will not Kickstart a game but will preorder one. As if they have any idea at all what a game will be like on day one before ever playing it is that much less of a risk. Before you say that the difference is that at least you get a game think hard, some people preordered Duke Nukem Forever back in the 90's and waited 10 years.

I'm worn out "being fair" for negligent developers that renege on their promises of Linux ports. Indeed, I've developed an attitude of bitter suspicion about any promised Linux port. I've had to develop a mindset that NO game is ever COMING to Linux. It is either available on Linux, or it is not. It is simply infuriating and belittling the glibness with which developers promise ports and then walk away from their promises. It is simply wrong.

I fully understand that "things happen" in a project, but common decency, basic human interaction dictates that if you make a promise, you better explain yourself when you fail to deliver on that promise. By making excuses on behalf of silent developers that fail to deliver on their projects, the Linux community condones and validates the abuse it receives. I don't see how the Linux gaming community benefits at all by enabling the shoddy business practices of what amounts to, at best, negligence and the silent treatment, and at worst mismanagement and poor planning or an utter lack of play-testing or quality control.

So yes, I fully support a "wall of shame," not for games, but for their would-be Linux developers. If they fail to release on time and also fail to explain why and offer a new expected time, then up on the wall. If they push out some stillborn, broken port, then up on the wall. No one is going to hold these snake-oil salesmen accountable for their lies and shoddy products, not Steam, not the Windows community, nobody but us. If we learned nothing from the recent Steam reversal regarding selling mods, we learned that businesses respond to the slings and arrows of an outraged community.

I'm done begging. I'm done going with hat in hand to these developers and thanking them for even deigning to bless us poor Linux users with the even the possibility of a port. If a person is only as good as their word, then many developers are simply bad, bad people.

I still think this is a overreaction just b/c they are working on a new game before D:OS is on Linux. As I said earlier, chances are that they have a very small team of Linux specific Developers/Engineers working on the Linux version, they are not going to continue paying the entire company to do nothing while the Linux team completes their work. They are working on several Mac and Windows fixes and enhancements as well that I highly doubt are going to be thrown out either.

As for the length of time, unless you are working at Larian (or any company), do NOT blame the Developers/Engineers. It is never that simple. I'm speaking from experience here as a Linux Systems/DevOps Engineer. There are times when we have to do things we know are not the best option because mgmt requested it done a certain way, or times when we had to push back releases of major projects/features due to simple realizing the project as bigger more complicated that originally thought, and even times when we simply did NOT have the resources (either time or money) to focus on more than 2-3 major issues and other projects got put on hold.

All of the above is normal in business. If Larian has any sort of Board or Investors (outside of the crowdfunding), they may even be facing pressure from them to focus on the issues/tasks where they could lose the most money. I don't like how long it is taking either, but I've been in the tech industry long enough to know that it's never as simple as it seems. And they are still a business first and foremost. Linux Developers/Engineers are expensive, far more expensive than Windows devs are due to their relative scarcity and high need these days in the Corporate world. Face it, if Larian doesn't make money, we don't see a port anyway.

Just a follow up, because I would hate to think anyone thinks that I'm blaming delays and silence on the actual workers at Larian Studios. I most certainly do NOT blame them.

When I wrote "developer" I thought it understood that I meant Larian Studios as a company, and not the workers who actually do all of the boots-on-the-ground work. I certainly didn't mean whichever poor souls have been tasked with miraculously producing the (apparently unplanned) Linux port for D: O.S. I have a brother-in-law who is a software engineer and I know that his job is often thankless and at times the stuff of a Dilbert cartoon. If I offended, I apologize.

I'm disappointed, however, that EagleDelta took my post as being "just b/c [Larian Studios] are working on a new game before D: O.S is on Linux," because my original post was --- I thought pretty clearly --- in support of a Wall of Shame for shoddy work and shoddy service regarding Linux game development companies in general and how, by being too quick to forgive, LInux gamers could be complicit in the problem.

In point of fact, I don't care how many projects Larian Studios or any other game developer --- or anyone, anywhere, for that matter --- work on at the same time, provided that they keep their promised deadlines to we customers or, if they can't, tell us why they can't and when the new deadline is.

Inasmuch as a Board of Directors has the right to bellow, "PROFITS ON TIME," the Customer has every right to bellow, "PRODUCT ON TIME." And both have a reasonable expectation as Stakeholders to know just what the hold up is when the Company Stakeholder fails to deliver.

But, If it's true that, as Liam's updates indicate, the Linux port was dumped last minute by management on the staff of Larian, then, yes, I would say that that is by my reckoning the very definition of mismanagement --- whatever else might be "normal in business." I've overseen projects in both the trades and non-profit development worlds, and I know of my wife's work in pharmaceutical R&D projects and scientific grant administration. When such unavoidable delays arise --- and they do arise --- then all the Stakeholders of that project are informed. And I have never seen a list of Stakeholders that did not include the end-user/customer.

To restate, I realize that the "guys and gals in the trenches," the people actually doing the work of coding and art and what all at Larian and elsewhere are not responsible for how the company the company employing them manages or mismanages itself. If I gave an impression to the contrary, I am truly sorry.

Updated the article again, and the Larian person has now deleted their comments.

Edit: Added in shots. Not very impressed at this.

How do you know the person is working for Larian?

It would be better be sure about the facts before making false accusations and blaming them for nothing. It would be great if GamingOnLinux would be quality over quantity.

Given the insight this person had, the answer is obvious. Then they were deleted...we are confident it was Larian.

Sorry but the message was sent just by some unknown user in reddit. The messages didn't have any information that couldn't have been written by someone who has been following the discussion.

Unless you don't have a confirmation that the person is from Larian I think it is just wrong to claim so.

What comes to Kickstarter - thanks to all Kickstarter backers who made Divinity: Original Sin and Wasteland 2 possible.
http://wastelandrpg.tumblr.com/post/118362965301/wasteland-2-game-of-the-year-edition-coming-free

Without Kickstarter (or Early Access) we wouldn't get all these incredible games coming for PC and Linux.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dZYy1E9-yI