A recent article about Jon Blow has spurred other developers getting in touch, and one developer is Brushfire Games, the developer of Shipwreck. Their sales are looking good, and they have some thoughts.
I spoke with Nick from Brushfire Games, and he shared these sales statistics with us. We are very privileged to get this kind of info, so a big thank you.
Sales stats for Shipwreck
89.64% Windows
5.96% Mac
4.40% Linux
That’s some of the healthiest Linux sales I’ve seen to date on a game, and I’m pretty impressed.
Nick did have more to say about it, and he gave these reasons on why he supports Linux with his studio:
It’s nice to see a developer who isn’t solely focused on income, but it is important of course and I’m not blind to that. If you want to do a Linux version, you need to remember the sales will be lower than other platforms, and not expect to get rich from it.
Nick did however have some other thoughts on why Linux may be a little more difficult:
I do understand what Nick is saying here, everything you get is pretty much direct from Apple. You don’t usually need to worry about getting a driver here and there for your machine, as it’s usually just done for you.
The Steam runtime is something that is helping with the many distributions argument too. I have yet to personally see the fragmentation actually cause any issues myself, so I’m still not entirely sure where people get that idea from. If someone could point out in the comments any games that are broken on certain distributions, I would appreciate seeing them (apart from Legend of Grimrock, as that's not a distribution issue).
This is important, and it’s something that is improving over time. Linux has gotten easier to install in a short amount of time, and the tools we have available now over a year ago are far more stable.
What we need to do is accommodate developers needs, and keep pointing them in the direction of tools, people, and whatever else they may need. We also need to not point developers at niche distributions, but the most popular. I’m not going to be popular with some people for this, but point them at Ubuntu/Mint/SteamOS and be done with it. The vastly smaller distributions should be accommodating the others to make sure games work correctly, it shouldn’t be up to the developers if x distribution does something slightly differently that it breaks a game.
Again some valid points. I actually get annoyed personally when a reply is to “try x distro instead”, and I see it a lot too. We need people to drop their distributions bias, and just focus on the problems people have.
One thing I would really like to see, is more developers blogging about tools and resources they found that helped them develop for Linux directly. If you know of them, share them, and then share them some more.
You can support Nick by grabbing Shipwreck on Steam or Humble, both are available at their official site.
If you are a developer and would like to share statistics and thoughts with us, feel free to contact us any time. We like to cover all sides of the Linux gaming argument, even when it isn’t pretty, and we aren’t afraid to do so. Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
I spoke with Nick from Brushfire Games, and he shared these sales statistics with us. We are very privileged to get this kind of info, so a big thank you.
Sales stats for Shipwreck
89.64% Windows
5.96% Mac
4.40% Linux
That’s some of the healthiest Linux sales I’ve seen to date on a game, and I’m pretty impressed.
Nick did have more to say about it, and he gave these reasons on why he supports Linux with his studio:
Quote1. We're a small studio and need to go after any customers willing to spend money on our products.
2. I believe in letting people game where they want. I'm a Mac user and it sucks when a game I like (*cough* Banished *cough*) doesn't support my platform. So I can empathize with the Linux base.
It’s nice to see a developer who isn’t solely focused on income, but it is important of course and I’m not blind to that. If you want to do a Linux version, you need to remember the sales will be lower than other platforms, and not expect to get rich from it.
Nick did however have some other thoughts on why Linux may be a little more difficult:
Quote1. As for the "why Mac over Linux" argument, developing on/for a Mac is much simpler. Yes, you have to buy proprietary hardware, but then you just download Xcode and you're off and running. You still have code to write, but you don't have to deal with any driver issues, you don't have to use a package manager to get various tools, and you have a decent IDE for free from the platform holder that does what you need. Mac is also nice since there's a very small set of hardware and operating system versions to support which is a far cry from how Linux operates with open hardware and a vast array of distros (and various versions of those distros).
I do understand what Nick is saying here, everything you get is pretty much direct from Apple. You don’t usually need to worry about getting a driver here and there for your machine, as it’s usually just done for you.
The Steam runtime is something that is helping with the many distributions argument too. I have yet to personally see the fragmentation actually cause any issues myself, so I’m still not entirely sure where people get that idea from. If someone could point out in the comments any games that are broken on certain distributions, I would appreciate seeing them (apart from Legend of Grimrock, as that's not a distribution issue).
Quote2. I too have had issues getting distros to work for me when trying to setup for development. And yes there are solutions and things to try, but remember that (most) developers don't plan to use Linux as their main machine so they're not really interested in investing a lot of time to setting up their dev environment. This is another reason why even if Linux is 4% of their sales they may forego Linux simply because of the time/effort of setting up (and supporting) Linux.
This is important, and it’s something that is improving over time. Linux has gotten easier to install in a short amount of time, and the tools we have available now over a year ago are far more stable.
What we need to do is accommodate developers needs, and keep pointing them in the direction of tools, people, and whatever else they may need. We also need to not point developers at niche distributions, but the most popular. I’m not going to be popular with some people for this, but point them at Ubuntu/Mint/SteamOS and be done with it. The vastly smaller distributions should be accommodating the others to make sure games work correctly, it shouldn’t be up to the developers if x distribution does something slightly differently that it breaks a game.
Quote3. I've also seen the forums or help threads where people dismiss the challenges others have with Linux. Usually the responses are along the lines of "try this other distro" or "use this other desktop manager" which aren't really helpful because those answers feel so arbitrary to someone not steeped in Linux. With so many options it's really hard as an "Outsider" to know the best way to setup a Linux box for development that will allow one to build for as many users as possible. For example, I still don't know if things I build on Ubuntu or Mint will work on Debian or other distros. As a Mac person I just have no idea how that all works. So if the community really wanted to help devs, make a super nice wiki on "How To Setup a Linux Distro to Build C++ Games for SteamOS and Linux using SDL2". I'd read and share that in a heartbeat.
Again some valid points. I actually get annoyed personally when a reply is to “try x distro instead”, and I see it a lot too. We need people to drop their distributions bias, and just focus on the problems people have.
One thing I would really like to see, is more developers blogging about tools and resources they found that helped them develop for Linux directly. If you know of them, share them, and then share them some more.
You can support Nick by grabbing Shipwreck on Steam or Humble, both are available at their official site.
If you are a developer and would like to share statistics and thoughts with us, feel free to contact us any time. We like to cover all sides of the Linux gaming argument, even when it isn’t pretty, and we aren’t afraid to do so. Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
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Quoting: SamsaiFor example, almost any random person can pick up a camera and become a host of their own show thanks to the power of YouTube and accessible video editing software. Same thing with game development, you can these days make good games without even having to know how to program.
This makes me depressed. Really.
Not even in this day and age a hobbyist can create the same level of quality as someone who's learnt the trade. I'll forever insist on that, regardless of tools.
And when I browse through some of the self "published" e-books out there or see the wiew numbers on some of the Twitch and YouTube "shows" I just want to pull the plug and cry, "stop the world, I want off!".
I guess this is the REAL label on the segment we call "indie scene": Hobbyists.
Last edited by Beamboom on 5 July 2015 at 8:18 am UTC
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Linux developers are people that like to code C in Vim/Emacs. Developers from other platforms are a totally different breed, and now we are asking them to do games and applications for us. QtCreator is getting pretty good, but mostly Linux lacks decent IDEs.
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I think calling people who make money doing the stuff they do "hobbyists" is dismissive of their works. Sure, expert knowledge will probably result in better overall quality but if people can make good quality using tools and techniques that some could consider "the noob way" then why judge? I only see the problem if / when developers are actually incompetent in that they are unable to ship a ready product and maintain it. So far I haven't heard that about Brushfire, though I haven't actively followed their forums/blogs/whatever. Any claims about incompetence beyond that point is elitism that serves no purpose.
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@beamboom, I again think you need to rethink your attitude, it's toxic.
I think it's brilliant what people can do with limited knowledge and resources.
I think it's brilliant what people can do with limited knowledge and resources.
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Quoting: BeamboomI do not mean this as an insult to anyone, but I seriously thought developers in general were a lot more geeky than this, and didn't really see it as much of a challenge to set up a system and do the required research while doing so.I'd explain this, but I don't know how to put it nicely for every reader.
I mean, I don't doubt this guy, he's very likely right in what he say (it's really well confirmed by other devs by the lack of basic QA testing) but seriously, he sound like your average, low competence consumer with this Mac ease of use attitude.
I just always thought they were more like us...
...How about: You can throw anyone a curve ball.
?
You will find people who are of course more qualified, but they don't know everything you and I might know (not that I know the first thing about programming or QA testing). But, they don't know everything they're dealing with when it's not expected to be so programming related or it's not what they're used to.
Developers are coming from static environments and this developer is concerned over Linux's dynamic and all the variations it can bring.
Legitimate concern? ...IDK, but he cited his concerns and maybe he just needs some simple answers cleared.
TL;DR: Maybe the developer has a small roadblock. That's what it sounds like to me.
Last edited by Styromaniac on 5 July 2015 at 8:35 am UTC
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Quoting: liamdawe@beamboom, I again think you need to rethink your attitude, it's toxic.
Sometimes life IS toxic and I don't see it as a task to sugar-coat that fact, nor should any of you, IMHO.
Let me use the electronic music scene as example, a scene I have followed closely for decades now: With the current software where everyone have a production studio on their PC that beats all professional studios just a few decades ago, and the publishing models of today where you can just make anything available to anyone, there's never ever been a higher level of pure TRASH on the marketplace than now. It's junk!
And why? Because the producers lack the foundation of understanding how things work. They haven't walked the walk. They don't know music, they only know the tools.
They are what I call hobbyists. And trust you me, this is me being diplomatic. I could have been a lot more toxic had that been the goal.
So yes, when I enjoy my software, I want to enjoy the work of professionals. And I sure think it is a point to separate them from the rest. Cause tools simply can not replace skills.
Last edited by Beamboom on 5 July 2015 at 10:13 am UTC
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Quoting: BeamboomSo yes, when I enjoy my software, I want to enjoy the work of professionals. And I sure think it is a point to separate them from the rest.In that case I think you've got the wrong operating system. Better switch back to the Microsoftland where everything is made by industry professionals.
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Quoting: SamsaiIn that case I think you've got the wrong operating system. Better switch back to the Microsoftland where everything is made by industry professionals.
Sorry but that's nonsense. There's both pros and hobbyists found on all platforms and you know it. And Linux completely dominates the professional sphere on practically all areas of computing apart from consumer/desktop use.
But hey I can stop expressing these views of they are unwanted. But what I describe is not meant to be "toxic" or alienating. It's just how things are. There are and will always be a difference between those with skills and those with tools. And up until now I've mainly categorised games developers on the pro side of the skill slider.
But I'll stfu now :-)
Last edited by Beamboom on 5 July 2015 at 10:08 am UTC
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Ok, this is getting a bit ridiculous. It's one thing to say that one person prefers games to be made by people with a lot of knowledge than someone with (comparatively) little knowledge and made-for-purpose tools, but another to say that his opinion doesn't belong anywhere aside from "Microsoftland".
I think a dev's genuine effort to make their progam work right, even when it means learning and working more, is more important to me than exactly how much they know. A pro who hand-wrote code can be a dick who won't listen or change anything, and a one-game dev can be willing to learn and keep fixing things until they work.
I think a dev's genuine effort to make their progam work right, even when it means learning and working more, is more important to me than exactly how much they know. A pro who hand-wrote code can be a dick who won't listen or change anything, and a one-game dev can be willing to learn and keep fixing things until they work.
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Let me ask you guys a question. Do you go from your country, with one culture to another country and expect the culture to be the same?
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