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Another video has surfaced from SIGGRAPH 2015, I somehow missed that it was posted last week, but the Valve section in particular is mighty interesting.
What I didn't know, is that the initial meeting to ever properly discuss Vulkan was actually at Valve's offices. I knew they were in early discussions, but I didn't realise they were so invested in it that early on that they held the meetings. If you look at the timeline around the 59 minute mark, their progress has been amazing. Their progress has only been as fast as it has been thanks to AMD though, as they donated Mantle to the effort.
They believe they are on target to deliver the final specification by the end of 2015, so let's hope they are able to stick to it.
Valve has already shipped a version of Source 2 with Vulkan to AMD, Intel and Nvidia and Dan Ginsburg from Valve states:
Skip to 1:40:00 for the Valve section.
It's really good to see them speak so highly of it, and steer people away from a closed API:
I already posted that Dota 2 will be the first game to use Vulkan from Valve.
LunarG also confirmed again that the cross-platform SDK tools will be open source, they are under NDA right now though. He said the repository for it will go open the day the specification formally goes out. Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
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What I didn't know, is that the initial meeting to ever properly discuss Vulkan was actually at Valve's offices. I knew they were in early discussions, but I didn't realise they were so invested in it that early on that they held the meetings. If you look at the timeline around the 59 minute mark, their progress has been amazing. Their progress has only been as fast as it has been thanks to AMD though, as they donated Mantle to the effort.
They believe they are on target to deliver the final specification by the end of 2015, so let's hope they are able to stick to it.
Valve has already shipped a version of Source 2 with Vulkan to AMD, Intel and Nvidia and Dan Ginsburg from Valve states:
QuoteOne thing that is very exciting, is that they all have it running on their drivers.
Skip to 1:40:00 for the Valve section.
It's really good to see them speak so highly of it, and steer people away from a closed API:
QuoteWe think Vulkan is the future. Unless you're aggressive enough to be shipping a DirectX 12 game this year, I would argue that there's really not much reason to ever create a DirectX 12 back-end for your game. The reason for that, is that Vulkan will cover you on Windows 10 on the same class of hardware, and so much more from these other platforms.
I already posted that Dota 2 will be the first game to use Vulkan from Valve.
LunarG also confirmed again that the cross-platform SDK tools will be open source, they are under NDA right now though. He said the repository for it will go open the day the specification formally goes out. Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
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jsa1983 24 Sep 2015
Exciting times are ahead of us... Looking forward to playing Vulkan games natively on Linux.
6 Likes
Pecisk 24 Sep 2015
Valve, stop with this positivism. You can't be real. Internet says so.
Seriously though, it is nice to hear such optimism from Valve. I have never seen them rushing out to drink their own kool aid so testing of drivers must be quite promising.
Seriously though, it is nice to hear such optimism from Valve. I have never seen them rushing out to drink their own kool aid so testing of drivers must be quite promising.
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drmoth 24 Sep 2015
This all so amazing I think I'm in shock!
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Mountain Man 24 Sep 2015
The problem with their "no reason to ship a DX12 game" argument is that Microsoft has invested tremendous resources in DX12 (and DirectX in general) and won't let it go without a fight, and many programmers are already familiar with DirectX while they would have to learn Vulkan from scratch.
They can learn Vulkan, and building crossplatform just makes sense in today's market, but it's the Microsoft angle that's going to be the hardest to overcome.
Last edited by Mountain Man on 24 Sep 2015 at 1:59 pm UTC
They can learn Vulkan, and building crossplatform just makes sense in today's market, but it's the Microsoft angle that's going to be the hardest to overcome.
Last edited by Mountain Man on 24 Sep 2015 at 1:59 pm UTC
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sub 24 Sep 2015
... won't let it go without a fight, and many programmers are already familiar with DirectX while they would have to learn Vulkan from scratch.
Right, since Direct3D 12 shares so much with previous Direct3D versions...
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Mountain Man 24 Sep 2015
It shares enough in common that they're just building on existing knowledge instead of having to learn a whole new set of tricks. When you have a publisher breathing down your neck to produce results, are you, as a developer, going to take the steeper or shallower learning curve? That's a very real consideration.... won't let it go without a fight, and many programmers are already familiar with DirectX while they would have to learn Vulkan from scratch.Right, since Direct3D 12 shares so much with previous Direct3D versions...
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Furious 24 Sep 2015
Just wanted to say that this presentation has been already on the internet few weeks ago. But it was from different angle, like it wasn't the official one. Worth mentioning before someone will waste 2 hrs of their lives again ;) Either way, I don't think we will know anything more untill release. On every further presentation we got the same informations.
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GustyGhost 24 Sep 2015
It shares enough in common that they're just building on existing knowledge instead of having to learn a whole new set of tricks. When you have a publisher breathing down your neck to produce results, are you, as a developer, going to take the steeper or shallower learning curve? That's a very real consideration.... won't let it go without a fight, and many programmers are already familiar with DirectX while they would have to learn Vulkan from scratch.Right, since Direct3D 12 shares so much with previous Direct3D versions...
I can't help but imagine that unless a publisher is using their own in-house game engine, Vulcan should eventually be available through all of the major engines.
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natewardawg 24 Sep 2015
When you have a publisher breathing down your neck to produce results, are you, as a developer, going to take the steeper or shallower learning curve? That's a very real consideration.
This can go the opposite way as well. If there will be a same day release for any additional platform other than Windows/Xbox and Vulkan performs on par with DX12 then why waste a lick of time on DX12 since you're going to have to write a Vulkan implementation anyway within the same time frame.
But, how many companies (especially AAA) write their own engines? Very few. So, probably any AAA company who's making a multi-platform game, even considering which API they will implement will be a rare and/or short discussion.
2 Likes
Liam Dawe 24 Sep 2015
Just wanted to say that this presentation has been already on the internet few weeks ago. But it was from different angle, like it wasn't the official one. Worth mentioning before someone will waste 2 hrs of their lives again ;) Either way, I don't think we will know anything more untill release. On every further presentation we got the same informations.
It was not something I saw before, and we didn't cover it on GOL, so it's news to me.
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Narcotix 24 Sep 2015
just read, that Nintendo joined the Khronos Group. So with the Nintendo NX, the PS4, Android, SteamOS all using Vulkan, why would a multiplatform developer even consider using DirectX12 ?
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sub 24 Sep 2015
just read, that Nintendo joined the Khronos Group. So with the Nintendo NX, the PS4, Android, SteamOS all using Vulkan, why would a multiplatform developer even consider using DirectX12 ?
Who says PS4 will support Vulkan?
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Kimyrielle 24 Sep 2015
The problem with their "no reason to ship a DX12 game" argument is that Microsoft has invested tremendous resources in DX12 (and DirectX in general) and won't let it go without a fight, and many programmers are already familiar with DirectX while they would have to learn Vulkan from scratch.
This is IT, where technology and skills decay faster than in any other profession. A programmer who's not able and willing to let go of an outdated tech and learn to use a more modern approach isn't worth their salt, IMHO.
Yes, there might be some management inertia to overcome, particularly in the big studios. But if (and that's how it looks like), Vulcan is indeed superior to DX12, they will eventually be forced by the market to use it whether or not they like it. Microsoft can whine all they want, but in the end players want good looking games.
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Nyamiou 24 Sep 2015
Yes, there might be some management inertia to overcome, particularly in the big studios. But if (and that's how it looks like), Vulcan is indeed superior to DX12, they will eventually be forced by the market to use it whether or not they like it. Microsoft can whine all they want, but in the end players want good looking games.Sadly, that is not that simple, Microsoft is still using corruption, [FUD](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_uncertainty_and_doubt) and others means to make sure that big companies uses their products. The question is not "Will big companies be willing to use Vulkan ?" but "Will big companies have the courage to go away from Microsoft ?".
Here is a few recent examples of Microsoft FUD :
- [http://www.winbeta.org/news/microsofts-office-365-wins-back-italian-municipality-costly-open-source-switch](http://www.winbeta.org/news/microsofts-office-365-wins-back-italian-municipality-costly-open-source-switch)
- [http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2015/08/munich-officials-who-dumped-windows-for-linux-want-microsofts-os-back/](http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2015/08/munich-officials-who-dumped-windows-for-linux-want-microsofts-os-back/)
And one for corruption :
- [https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-releases/2015/09/xbox-one-promoter-settles-ftc-charges-it-deceived-consumers](https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-releases/2015/09/xbox-one-promoter-settles-ftc-charges-it-deceived-consumers)
Last edited by Nyamiou on 24 Sep 2015 at 11:08 pm UTC
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Shmerl 25 Sep 2015
The problem with their "no reason to ship a DX12 game" argument is that Microsoft has invested tremendous resources in DX12 (and DirectX in general) and won't let it go without a fight,
What kind of fight if DX12 remains MS only? The only edge and argument MS can use are excellent development tools. And hopefully Valve will match them with Glave and such. When tools situation will reach parity, MS won't have anything to offer in DX12.
Last edited by Shmerl on 25 Sep 2015 at 4:11 am UTC
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Shmerl 25 Sep 2015
Who says PS4 will support Vulkan?
So far no one, but it kind of makes sense for Sony. It will give them a way to attract more developers and gain more advantage against MS.
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drmoth 25 Sep 2015
Vulkan is the first real threat to DirectX for a very long time...it's going to be interesting to see how this plays out. However it may well be that DX12 will hang around and be supported like OSX's Metal, but once Vulkan gains traction, who knows what will happen.
I love how all the tools and testing suites for Vulkan are going to be open sourced. This could make a big impact as well.
Also, note in the presentation how one of OpenGL's biggest weaknesses is highlighted - it's inability to scale rendering over multiple processors. This is what has kept DirectX ahead of OpenGL in recent years...it's not noticeable in lightweight games, but in very complex ones, e.g. Witcher 2 (and very likely Witcher 3) this makes a significant difference. Vulkan totally fixes this.
Last edited by drmoth on 25 Sep 2015 at 8:27 am UTC
I love how all the tools and testing suites for Vulkan are going to be open sourced. This could make a big impact as well.
Also, note in the presentation how one of OpenGL's biggest weaknesses is highlighted - it's inability to scale rendering over multiple processors. This is what has kept DirectX ahead of OpenGL in recent years...it's not noticeable in lightweight games, but in very complex ones, e.g. Witcher 2 (and very likely Witcher 3) this makes a significant difference. Vulkan totally fixes this.
Last edited by drmoth on 25 Sep 2015 at 8:27 am UTC
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