Valve Rep Confirms Why Some Games Have Their SteamOS Icon Removed

This time I agree with Valve. If something it's supposed to run on SteamOS, then it has to run on vanilla SteamOS. No exception.

Do we need to have a Linux icon? No, that would also confuse things.

I think individual devs should get their act together.

Plus, adding pre-compiled Java might be a nightmare from legal p.o.v., not sure the small devs would be able to.
Stop using Java for your games and develop in C/C++, I know it's not a good answer, but quite frankly if you use Java you'll be entangled in legal bulls**t with Oracle till the end of the days (see Google vs Oracle w.r.t. Android... they're getting sued to have copied the API, think if you try to redistribute the Oracle build...).

Come on now.

Nope! A habbit is no excuse :D

TPlus, adding pre-compiled Java might be a nightmare from legal p.o.v., not sure the small devs would be able to.

Can't see any legal nightmare with OpenJDK, which is the refrence for Java nowadays. Maybe you will have to get a license for some libraries, but not for the Runtime Environment. Which could be easily distributed with SteamOS as it is in any other Linux-Distribution.

Stop using Java for your games and develop in C/C++, I know it's not a good answer.

You are right, it isn't! I would rather develop in C# then in C/C++. :D

Valve have needed to standardise something for a while, I see this as a step in the right direction for anyone using Steam on Linux. Things were a mess before, and now a little less so.

While I don't buy this argument on premise unless you're linking against some insane versions or something, this could however be a minds eye perspective thing because how many times have we heard "I can't support 200 distro" arguments because developers are idiots? This could be seen as a "we only have to support that distro" kind of thing without them realizing it runs under every other distro (red hat excluded since it's base is ancient).

And I agree with the poster about Java, make the game have a Java icon then because Java isn't a native Windows library/runtime either.

You are right, it isn't! I would rather develop in C# then in C/C++. :D

You mean on a Windows machine or on Linux? ... Or both I guess.


Last edited by Xzyl on 18 Oct 2015 at 2:43 pm UTC

I love it - use the already standardized Steam Runtime if you want to be on SteamOS!

No different from using the PlayStation SDK or the iOS SDK or the Windows Runtime SDK etc. This will raise the quality and ensure input and graphics is handled the same way for every game. This means games doesn't need to link statically and other bad things.

They already made this public a long time ago - use the Steam Runtime. Some did not and now they pay the price. Nothing different from being tossed out of the Apple Store when you don't obey the quality rules. I want all my games to get the same updated libraries when Valve does an update - I don't want some games having its own bundled shit being outdated and full of bugs.

I don't really care for the Tux icon - this is not about "Linux" - this is about Valve creating its own platform for their own commercial gains - just like Google did with Android. But since the Steam Runtime runs on any Linux distribution all SteamOS games will run on Linux. You cannot have some apps installing shit in you computer like Java or .NET (Mono) or any other scripting shit that can mess with the system. You keep to the given libraries and you are good.


Last edited by on 18 Oct 2015 at 3:19 pm UTC

This makes the situation much more clear, and should help both desktop Linux and SteamOS look better for everyone to play games.

reallly ?

- it does not help desktop because now if a linux users looks at (for example a Java based game) they will not see the SteamOS icon and thus have totally no idea it runs just fine on Linux.
- for developers of the Java based game (as an example again) this means less Linux people will buy their game.

This make it clear for SteamOS, totally agree, but this does not make it clear for Linux users.

Java is however a big problem since Minecraft for one is using it. Maybe you could compile it using GCJ:

https://gcc.gnu.org/java/

I have never tried but with some minor "porting" it might compile. Or maybe they could make the Steam Runtime include Java?

For those that didn't comprehend, the SteamOS icon is still a Linux icon, SteamOS is a distribution like all the other and if a game doesn't run on every distribution then it doesn't run on Linux. We are not going to have a logo for Ubuntu, a logo for Fedora, a logo for Arch ... if the game doesn't run everywhere then it's no good.

Developers should already know that their game is supposed to run in an environment limited to the Steam runtime ([https://partner.steamgames.com/documentation/linux_landing](https://partner.steamgames.com/documentation/linux_landing)), they can bundle directly all the missing libraries in their game.

Revenge of the Titans is also a Java game and it doesn't have lost is SteamOS logo, why ? Because OpenJDK is bundled with the game, it does cost about 70MB but the game can run on any distribution without the cost of telling the user to install Java.

...

Of course, one difference is, that on Windows you could just tell the .exe that it needs to install that dependency, without having admin-rights or so... but that's the only difference I can think of spontaneously.

...

Häääää???? You are wrong. read the bold text from you again. You need admin-rights to install any kind of software on Windows.

Na, only if you want to override protected folders, registry keys and such... basically just like in Linux. ;)

http://superuser.com/questions/725326/how-can-non-admin-users-install-software-in-windows-7

but ya, that's basically most software out there:

http://serverfault.com/questions/611499/let-users-install-software-without-local-administrator-rights-on-domain

What I wanted to say though: Valve could make it easy to install such 3rd party software on SteamOS.


Last edited by Maelrane on 18 Oct 2015 at 3:34 pm UTC

For those that didn't comprehend, the SteamOS icon is still a Linux icon, SteamOS is a distribution like all the other and if a game doesn't run on every distribution then it doesn't run on Linux. We are not going to have a logo for Ubuntu, a logo for Fedora, a logo for Arch ... if the game doesn't run everywhere then it's no good.

Developers should already know that their game is supposed to run in an environment limited to the Steam runtime ([https://partner.steamgames.com/documentation/linux_landing](https://partner.steamgames.com/documentation/linux_landing)), they can bundle directly all the missing libraries in their game.

Revenge of the Titans is also a Java game and it doesn't have lost is SteamOS logo, why ? Because OpenJDK is bundled with the game, it does cost about 70MB but the game can run on any distribution without the cost of telling the user to install Java.

You my fried said it better than I could. We want a standard and even if that standard is chosen by Valve it makes every game run on all Linux platforms. That's good.

For those that didn't comprehend, the SteamOS icon is still a Linux icon, SteamOS is a distribution like all the other and if a game doesn't run on every distribution then it doesn't run on Linux. We are not going to have a logo for Ubuntu, a logo for Fedora, a logo for Arch ... if the game doesn't run everywhere then it's no good.

Although the numbers are (not) in our favor... Windows has a lot of versions too, so has MacOS. Nobody bats an eye if Windows Vista is not supported, or Windows XP etc.

I mean, I know what you're going to say, but

If the reason turns out to be additional requirements, then there should be a distinction between "Desktop Linux" and "Couch SteamOS" ;)

For those that didn't comprehend, the SteamOS icon is still a Linux icon, SteamOS is a distribution like all the other and if a game doesn't run on every distribution then it doesn't run on Linux. We are not going to have a logo for Ubuntu, a logo for Fedora, a logo for Arch ... if the game doesn't run everywhere then it's no good.

Although the numbers are (not) in our favor... Windows has a lot of versions too, so has MacOS. Nobody bats an eye if Windows Vista is not supported, or Windows XP etc.

I mean, I know what you're going to say, but

If the reason turns out to be additional requirements, then there should be a distinction between "Desktop Linux" and "Couch SteamOS" ;)

Windows has its Win32 API written in old C and this API hasn't changed for 20 years (some additions but really no removes). This makes Windows binaries that are 20 year old run as good as new ones on modern Windows OS:es. Windows is extremely backwards compatible.

Mac OS X has its Cocoa API and Carbon stuff which is also standardized for all OS X:es.

Linux has no standard at all. There is no standard package manager, there is no standard package list. There is no standard C++ runtime. Nothing is standard because everything is moddable. Valve have defined a pack of libraries that is all you need to make any game.

Valve creating its own platform means reliance on that platform. This is about GNU/Linux and gaming - and there are problems in relying on steam's runtime. It means sticking to libraries they provide, library versions they provide, and doing only what they say. You're getting ridding of any freedoms you might have to control your own system - you might as well use Windows.

Not really. Commercial games depending on a "runtime" or rather a fixed set of libraries doesn't do much to limit your freedom. Everything outside of Steam still uses the libraries installed on your system.

For those that didn't comprehend, the SteamOS icon is still a Linux icon, SteamOS is a distribution like all the other and if a game doesn't run on every distribution then it doesn't run on Linux. We are not going to have a logo for Ubuntu, a logo for Fedora, a logo for Arch ... if the game doesn't run everywhere then it's no good.

Although the numbers are (not) in our favor... Windows has a lot of versions too, so has MacOS. Nobody bats an eye if Windows Vista is not supported, or Windows XP etc.

I mean, I know what you're going to say, but

If the reason turns out to be additional requirements, then there should be a distinction between "Desktop Linux" and "Couch SteamOS" ;)

Windows has its Win32 API written in old C and this API hasn't changed for 20 years (some additions but really no removes). This makes Windows binaries that are 20 year old run as good as new ones on modern Windows OS:es. Windows is extremely backwards compatible.

Mac OS X has its Cocoa API and Carbon stuff which is also standardized for all OS X:es.

Linux has no standard at all. There is no standard package manager, there is no standard package list. There is no standard C++ runtime. Nothing is standard because everything is moddable. Valve have defined a pack of libraries that is all you need to make any game.

Thats not true there is the [lsb](http://www.linuxfoundation.org/collaborate/workgroups/lsb). Every Distribution which want to be LSB compliant need to have this standard included.
[Ubuntu](https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lsb)
[fedora](https://apps.fedoraproject.org/packages/redhat-lsb)
[debian](https://wiki.debian.org/LSB)

and the list goes on.


Last edited by Glog78 on 18 Oct 2015 at 4:00 pm UTC

Edit #23423423: With "standard" I meant "standardized API for games". Not just "any standard". Arghh...


Last edited by on 18 Oct 2015 at 4:21 pm UTC

Probably already suggested by someone somewhere, instead of having both tux and steamos icons cluttering up the store they could just toggle. If a game has linux depots have it use the tux icon by default. If it passes muster to run on steamos then replace the tux icon with the steamos icon.

Java is however a big problem since Minecraft for one is using it. Maybe you could compile it using GCJ:

https://gcc.gnu.org/java/

I have never tried but with some minor "porting" it might compile. Or maybe they could make the Steam Runtime include Java?

Minecraft was never made available on Steam. Minecraft Storymode, yes but that's a different game. And I don't see Java being included in the Steam runtime any time soon because legal issues.

I think this is a good move. It's damn annoying to buy a game, have it not launch, and then have to research, usually in the forums, as to why that is the case, and then figure out how to fix it on your particular distro. That being said, the Steam Runtime itself ought to be expanded or expandable in some automatic manner, when a game needs something like Java, or whatever, and if needed, present a EULA - just like it already does with some games.


Last edited by adolson on 18 Oct 2015 at 4:54 pm UTC

This is why I love you guys. You have a vested interest in the Linux gaming scene and I'm grateful for that. Keep up the great work!

It's been some years since I installed something from Steam on Windows and I don't know if it still a valid point, but on Windows when you first launch a game that had additional dependencies it launched the wizard for each one, that I could rememeber things like DirectX, .Net or VisualC runtime were installed this way if they were not already in the system.

What Steam should do is provide a similar way of installing those most common dependencies like Java. If the problem is the variety of package managers, that I assume it may be a risk, they could support only the SteamOS distribution and let other distributions manage it on their own.


Last edited by Devlin on 18 Oct 2015 at 5:04 pm UTC

Well.. As a former Windows XP SP3 user, I want linux apps that I can download, install and run with a single click... everything must run out of the box.. The Linux game devs have a very long path to go if they want a massive migration.