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I think the hidden usb port for the wireless dongle is a fantastic idea, but apparently it can make the signal be a bit iffy which is a shame.
He does mention a few times about the lack of games on SteamOS, and he later clarifies it to be more about the AAA games. We will see a lot of complaints about this, and despite what people think about our still rather large library the bigger AAA games will be a problem for a lot of potential buyers.
It also highlights a major problem, and that is the filtering on SteamOS is quite pants. To show Windows games by default, and having to manually filter them to what is available. That, plus the featured section showing Windows games is a stupid major issue. I sincerely hope Valve have some new filtering up their sleeve for the SteamOS/Steam Machine official launch, otherwise I'm really going to be wondering if they want it to actually succeed. It's a ridiculous issue to not have solved already, and there has been a bug open on github about it for many months. You wouldn't expect to have to filter out Xbox games on a Playstation, so why do Valve think it's a good idea to leave it in for SteamOS? It just doesn't make sense to me right now.
It would work much better if Valve lumped all non-supported games into a category you manually select yourself, as that is what I would personally expect from it. It is the only way that would make sense to me, to only show games I can actually run on my hardware at the forefront.
Every time I log into Steam and view the store, or use Big Picture Mode I'm instantly hooked by the look of a game featured or "recommended for you", only to realise it's a Windows game. It's damned annoying.
This video reviewer isn't the only one who has come across that either, a few of the major PC news websites who did their take on it also noted it was weird.
I obviously want it to succeed for us all, but Valve need to sort this crap out. There's a lot of uncertainty about how anything will be handled, but as usual I'm sure Valve have something up their sleeve. Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
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Keizgon 2 Nov 2015
This is guy is more worthy of an article (unlike reviewers, he actually uses the damn thing):
View video on youtube.com
His tweet afterwards:
["If there was somehow to get Emulators running on the Alienware Steam Machine, this thing would be GOD Tier."](https://twitter.com/CultofMush1/status/660313419615240192)
Just shows Valve needs to invest into their Desktop Mode just as much as their BPM.
Last edited by Keizgon on 2 Nov 2015 at 8:16 pm UTC
View video on youtube.com
His tweet afterwards:
["If there was somehow to get Emulators running on the Alienware Steam Machine, this thing would be GOD Tier."](https://twitter.com/CultofMush1/status/660313419615240192)
Just shows Valve needs to invest into their Desktop Mode just as much as their BPM.
Last edited by Keizgon on 2 Nov 2015 at 8:16 pm UTC
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Case in point, how many people bought and played "Witcher 2", "Alien: Isolation" or "Shadow or Mordor" on Windows months/years before they arrived on Linux? I know I did.Well I am one of those guys who never had such thing as a "Windows partition", as I switched directly from Mac to Linux. So when I buy a Linux game nowadays, it's always the first time I play it. To me the OS is more important than game compatibility. But I know I'm an extraterrestrial :)
You are exactly the target audience for SteamOS. However, given that Windows is the dominant gaming platform on PC and always has been, there will be many millions more like myself who have thousands invested in games there over the years, who are looking for new, original AAA/Indies to hit Linux at the same time as Windows, instead of stale ones ported over from Windows yesteryear.
What the mod doesn't seem to understand is that many people ignore indies and go straight for the over-hyped AAA for their gaming fix. Totally missing out on gems such as "Kerbal Space Program", "Don't Starve", "Runner 2: Future Legend of Rhythm Alien", "Path of Exile", "Dust: An Elysian Tai"... need I go on? And this is not just a Linux problem, which is why I had to underscore my point to liamdawe since he seems hell bent on avoiding the truth that there is fun to be had in the indie scene too, whether he likes it or not over his XCOM hardon. He seems more happy arguing for AAA as the saviour of SteamOS/Boxes. Completely not what I am arguing against.
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I like this guy's comments... I think the trap he does fall into though is comparing the available games on SteamOS with Windows and not with a console on launch. PC gamers really need to get their (our) heads out of their arses, the world is much, much bigger than what has today essentially become a niche.
Yes, people would be fine with it if they perceived the Steam machine as a console. If the general way to see it is as just a PC with a weird operating system, Valve is in trouble.
The discussion about there being good indie games is exactly the same for music, movies, etc. and it's been had a million times. Sure, if you're not the kind of person who loves Michael Bay movies there is huge amounts of good stuff outside the AAA marketing machine if you bother to look. Most people either do really want only what AAA offers or won't think of looking for anything else.
Last edited by badber on 2 Nov 2015 at 8:25 pm UTC
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You obviously don't get what I'm trying to say: I'm a prime example of the people who wouldn't go out and buy one usually because of the lack of AAA games, but I am already invested in Linux obviously.
Yeah, because Eldritch is on the same level, and the same genre, right..
You're amusing bro.
I see you still have a little growing up to do hey liamdawe? You are intentionally misrepresenting my original argument in favour of your own "AAA will save our Steam Boxes!" while thumbing down indie titles as a source of fun gaming, which was my original argument you didn't get!
I actually used to enjoy frequenting this site, if only to see what games are coming to Linux. But after witnessing first hand that you are nothing more than a butt hurt man child, who condescends sarcastically to fellow Linux gamer/devs expressing a perfectly reasonable opinion - I think it's time to move on. Congrats "bro!" I'm done here.
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omer666 2 Nov 2015
You are exactly the target audience for SteamOS.I don't think so, the only reason I play on Linux is because it's my OS of choice. I already have a very decent PC that I work on, and that I happen to play on, too.
What the mod doesn't seem to understand is that many people ignore indies and go straight for the over-hyped AAA for their gaming fix.He does in fact, and he stated it millions of times himself from the very beginning.
And as a matter of fact, I don't think people going straight to over-hyped AAA games are Steam Machines' target audience either. It looks more like they're trying to create their own audience.
That's what Microsoft did with their first XBox in fact, nobody was waiting for an American console with a Bungie FPS as a launch title.*
Yes a BUNGIE game. Like in "Macintosh-only indie developer".
*Edit : Just as a reminder, at the time everyone was looking forward to the PS2, Metal Gear Solid and Final Fantasy... That cost SEGA to end making consoles and it definitely affected Nintendo GameCube's sales.
Last edited by omer666 on 2 Nov 2015 at 8:47 pm UTC
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"Niche indie games won't push Steam Machines to be a major success"
You have totally misunderstood what I am saying. I'm not arguing for Indie games as the saviour of SteamOS over AAA. I'm talking about AAA games NOT BEING the be all and end all of fun gaming ON ANY PLATFORM. You are arguing against me on a totally different tangent in favour of AAA games needed for SteamOS to be a success in order to attract big name players to develop more AAA for SteamOS.
"many users won't switch due to not having them available, etc."
Again, off down your own merry road arguing with yourself!
"Indie games for the most part still sell far less"
So why bother covering indies at all on the site then?! Further, not the topic of my argument and totally missing the point. It's NOT about sales that I am talking about. Again, read my original statement:
"AAA games does not mean "must have for best gaming experience". I couldn't give a rats ass if AAA titles sell more. Rinse repeat - what I'm saying from a gamer point of view, is that you can have as much and in some cases more fun playing indie titles as you can with AAA. I'm trying really hard not to go for the analogy here, but the stupidity from your end is burning my brain!
"I'm a prime example of the people who wouldn't go out and buy one usually because of the lack of AAA games"
Yet, hypothetically - I bet you'd be the first to stand crying in a puddle of piss if all indie games disappeared from Steam/Linux and went Windows/MAC only and all you were left with was Windows AAA ports! Congrats you just went against everything that SteamOS stands for. More big budget flops, rushed release dates, red tape, licensing issues, investors first gamers last...
I think this is where we just agree to disagree. You feel that you can't have fun without AAA games on SteamOS and you won't buy a Steam box without them, I say to the contrary, and to day-one SteamOS releases, plus thousands of hidden indie gems are the way to go for SteamOS/Steam Box.
You have totally misunderstood what I am saying. I'm not arguing for Indie games as the saviour of SteamOS over AAA. I'm talking about AAA games NOT BEING the be all and end all of fun gaming ON ANY PLATFORM. You are arguing against me on a totally different tangent in favour of AAA games needed for SteamOS to be a success in order to attract big name players to develop more AAA for SteamOS.
"many users won't switch due to not having them available, etc."
Again, off down your own merry road arguing with yourself!
"Indie games for the most part still sell far less"
So why bother covering indies at all on the site then?! Further, not the topic of my argument and totally missing the point. It's NOT about sales that I am talking about. Again, read my original statement:
"AAA games does not mean "must have for best gaming experience". I couldn't give a rats ass if AAA titles sell more. Rinse repeat - what I'm saying from a gamer point of view, is that you can have as much and in some cases more fun playing indie titles as you can with AAA. I'm trying really hard not to go for the analogy here, but the stupidity from your end is burning my brain!
"I'm a prime example of the people who wouldn't go out and buy one usually because of the lack of AAA games"
Yet, hypothetically - I bet you'd be the first to stand crying in a puddle of piss if all indie games disappeared from Steam/Linux and went Windows/MAC only and all you were left with was Windows AAA ports! Congrats you just went against everything that SteamOS stands for. More big budget flops, rushed release dates, red tape, licensing issues, investors first gamers last...
I think this is where we just agree to disagree. You feel that you can't have fun without AAA games on SteamOS and you won't buy a Steam box without them, I say to the contrary, and to day-one SteamOS releases, plus thousands of hidden indie gems are the way to go for SteamOS/Steam Box.
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omer666 2 Nov 2015
In the end, I don't understand the point you're trying to make... sorry.
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[quote=omer666]
So you disagree that someone who's never used/played AAA games on Windows is not a target audience for selling old/new AAA games on SteamOS? Riiiiiiiight!
Meanwhile back on earth,
Sorry... I didn't quite catch that over the laughing coming from Markus Persson et al.
A million times you say?! *sigh! Makes me wonder why indie titles are covered on this site at all!
You are exactly the target audience for SteamOS.
I don't think so, the only reason I play on Linux is because it's my OS of choice. I already have a very decent PC that I work on, and that I happen to play on, too.
So you disagree that someone who's never used/played AAA games on Windows is not a target audience for selling old/new AAA games on SteamOS? Riiiiiiiight!
What the mod doesn't seem to understand is that many people ignore indies and go straight for the over-hyped AAA for their gaming fix.
He does in fact, and he stated it millions of times himself from the very beginning.
Meanwhile back on earth,
"...because you're having fun with indie games, it doesn't mean the vast majority will. Indie games for the most part still sell far less"
Sorry... I didn't quite catch that over the laughing coming from Markus Persson et al.
and have far less of a push than the bigger budget games. I use myself as a prime example of this, I don't put all that much time into indie games often, but I put tons of hours into the bigger games. XCOM for example is one of the highest hours playtime I have on any game (all of which are under Linux I should add)."
"I'm a prime example of the people who wouldn't go out and buy one usually because of the lack of AAA games"
A million times you say?! *sigh! Makes me wonder why indie titles are covered on this site at all!
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In the end, I don't understand the point you're trying to make... sorry.
Clearly!
Let me break it down. AAA games = not the be all and end all of gaming entertainment. Indie games are fun too.
While liamdawe may feel the need not buy a Steam Box without AAA games, that's fine, however it is entirely irrelevant to my argument.
Understand?
Good, because he doesn't.
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MayeulC 2 Nov 2015
This is guy is more worthy of an article (unlike reviewers, he actually uses the damn thing):
[skipped the video for the quote]
His tweet afterwards:
["If there was somehow to get Emulators running on the Alienware Steam Machine, this thing would be GOD Tier."](https://twitter.com/CultofMush1/status/660313419615240192)
Just shows Valve needs to invest into their Desktop Mode just as much as their BPM.
I am quite surprised that no one answered him. I might, but I'll let other people a day or two to do so, before I clean the dust off of my old twitter account :)
Maybe [Lutris](https://lutris.net/) could do the trick for him, I don't know its state as of now.
Last edited by MayeulC on 2 Nov 2015 at 9:46 pm UTC
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omer666 2 Nov 2015
So you disagree that someone who's never used/played AAA games on Windows is not a target audience for selling old/new AAA games on SteamOS? Riiiiiiiight!No I don't, honestly I'm just telling you about my own experience, nothing more. I am not completely dumb, mind you.
I do understand your statement about Indie games vs AAA, no problem. It's just that your getting so upset *clearly* doesn't serve your argumentation.
One may think that you want to prove much more than this, or to prove something else, because, to begin with, I see no point of disagreement between you and Liam. Quoting out of context sentences won't change this fact, and we all know around here that what he thinks of it, and that it's not opposed to your statement.
In his later replies, he only responded to your obvious hostility, hence the fact I said it definitely doesn't serve your argumentation.
No, saying journalists and people around the web are waiting for more AAA titles isn't calling you an "indie fanboy". This is plain over-interpretation, followed by calling names and so on.
So please behave yourself, and think that we all want the same thing in here.
3 Likes
Mblackwell 2 Nov 2015
The choice of GPU just blows my mind.... Why use a mobile GPU and not something like a custom 750ti or even 960? I understand that it's super small and looks cute, but if it was just a little bit bigger it could have so much more power at a similar price.
Actually the GPU has been modified a bit in clock speeds and such and should get the same (about) performance as a 750 Ti. It does suck that it can't be swapped out ever though. I have a pretty beefy PC and am waiting to see what the second iteration of this box looks like before I jump in, although it is exciting to see something so simple and with such a nice form factor.
Last edited by Mblackwell on 2 Nov 2015 at 10:11 pm UTC
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Liam Dawe 2 Nov 2015
What the mod doesn't seem to understand is that many people ignore indies and go straight for the over-hyped AAA for their gaming fix. Totally missing out on gems such as "Kerbal Space Program", "Don't Starve", "Runner 2: Future Legend of Rhythm Alien", "Path of Exile", "Dust: An Elysian Tai"... need I go on? And this is not just a Linux problem, which is why I had to underscore my point to liamdawe since he seems hell bent on avoiding the truth that there is fun to be had in the indie scene too, whether he likes it or not over his XCOM hardon. He seems more happy arguing for AAA as the saviour of SteamOS/Boxes. Completely not what I am arguing against.
That mod actually owns this website, just a little background info for you if you didn't already know ;)
Having a number of indie gems doesn't suddenly make Steam Machines more likely to be sold. I don't think AAA games are a saviour either, but I know for a fact they push numbers, and anyone who argues against that really doesn't understand what they are talking about.
You obviously don't get what I'm trying to say: I'm a prime example of the people who wouldn't go out and buy one usually because of the lack of AAA games, but I am already invested in Linux obviously.
Yeah, because Eldritch is on the same level, and the same genre, right..
You're amusing bro.
I see you still have a little growing up to do hey liamdawe? You are intentionally misrepresenting my original argument in favour of your own "AAA will save our Steam Boxes!" while thumbing down indie titles as a source of fun gaming, which was my original argument you didn't get!
I actually used to enjoy frequenting this site, if only to see what games are coming to Linux. But after witnessing first hand that you are nothing more than a butt hurt man child, who condescends sarcastically to fellow Linux gamer/devs expressing a perfectly reasonable opinion - I think it's time to move on. Congrats "bro!" I'm done here.
No, you are stating your argument, I am stating mine. This is what is known as a debate.
I am clearly winning said debate with you now stooping down to a personal attack, such things are not welcome here.
I gave you a clear warning PM a moment ago for taking this attitude against me into another completely unrelated article, now I will publicly tell you to cool down or risk the ban hammer.
Last edited by Liam Dawe on 2 Nov 2015 at 10:17 pm UTC
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Shmerl 2 Nov 2015
Part of this "AAA are needed" and etc. is losing the point because of poorly defined terms. AAA term itself is bad and non descriptive, so if you prefer a meaningful discussion, avoid it altogether and clearly define what you are talking about. People can understand many different things by AAA. Some mean big budget games (probably most common understanding), others mean publisher funded games, yet others mean high quality games (not so common usage, but it's actually what it was originally coined for: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AAA_(video_game_industry)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AAA_(video_game_industry))
All these usages make this term very poor for discussions. Take for example big budget games. They can be publisher funded, but there is a growing number of big budget games by independent studios (which are either crowdfunded like inXile games, or funded by investors and studio profits like CD Projekt Red or Flying Wild Hog games). I.e. these games are indie (independent), but they are also big budget. So are they AAA or not? You easily see how ambiguous it gets already. And now throw in the quality. Should horribly broken Batman game be called AAA? Not if you define AAA as quality measure. But it's big budget, publisher funded game... And surely there are high quality (in bugs sense) independent and low budget games. What a mess.
So, if you care about sensible discussion, phrases like "I mostly don't enjoy AAA" aren't helpful at all. If it's about indie vs publisher funded, that's way more clear, since for example independent studios are better at creating good art (i.e. deeper story and so on), while publisher funded ones are more likely to fall victims of the mass market mentality push from the publisher.
Or if you are contrasting big budget vs low budget games - say so explicitly. That would help others avoid arguing for invalid reasons.
Last edited by Shmerl on 2 Nov 2015 at 11:14 pm UTC
All these usages make this term very poor for discussions. Take for example big budget games. They can be publisher funded, but there is a growing number of big budget games by independent studios (which are either crowdfunded like inXile games, or funded by investors and studio profits like CD Projekt Red or Flying Wild Hog games). I.e. these games are indie (independent), but they are also big budget. So are they AAA or not? You easily see how ambiguous it gets already. And now throw in the quality. Should horribly broken Batman game be called AAA? Not if you define AAA as quality measure. But it's big budget, publisher funded game... And surely there are high quality (in bugs sense) independent and low budget games. What a mess.
So, if you care about sensible discussion, phrases like "I mostly don't enjoy AAA" aren't helpful at all. If it's about indie vs publisher funded, that's way more clear, since for example independent studios are better at creating good art (i.e. deeper story and so on), while publisher funded ones are more likely to fall victims of the mass market mentality push from the publisher.
Or if you are contrasting big budget vs low budget games - say so explicitly. That would help others avoid arguing for invalid reasons.
Last edited by Shmerl on 2 Nov 2015 at 11:14 pm UTC
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Liam Dawe 2 Nov 2015
Just for the record, supashang has now be banned for his ridiculous PM to me, carry on with normal reasonable discussions.
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const 2 Nov 2015
We really have lost scope since SteamOS was announced. In the beginning, "everyone" agreed
1. We, as Linux gamers, can be glad for each game released, especially if a new genre gets attention (hack, we didn't have any decent, modern RTS or CityBuilder before. We begged developers to deliver untested builds, if they happend to use middleware we knew would run. We begged developers to consider a port at all and celebrated every studio stating minimal interest...)
2. SteamOS will be a long-term-adventure for Valve if it's supposed to go ahead. The catalogue won't be comparable to Windows for the next years, the interface not as polished as consoles. But if Valve keeps momentum and interest by developers, the system might be in an outstanding place when the next console generation joins in with a 20-50 games catalogue.
All in all, it went way better then anyone of us would have guessed two years back, didn't it?
But reading here and on reddit, it seems all expectiations have grown ridiculously. It's still way to early for all the divaism we see in the community (blaming studios for not delivering ports in time or delivering faulty updates, if even for hours. We see flamewars for similar things waaaay to regularly). And on the other side repeating the list of most desirable games again and again in diverse "what's still missing" threads. We should concentrate on developing a productive community and push the games we have and likes to our friends. *my opinion*
Last edited by const on 2 Nov 2015 at 11:28 pm UTC
1. We, as Linux gamers, can be glad for each game released, especially if a new genre gets attention (hack, we didn't have any decent, modern RTS or CityBuilder before. We begged developers to deliver untested builds, if they happend to use middleware we knew would run. We begged developers to consider a port at all and celebrated every studio stating minimal interest...)
2. SteamOS will be a long-term-adventure for Valve if it's supposed to go ahead. The catalogue won't be comparable to Windows for the next years, the interface not as polished as consoles. But if Valve keeps momentum and interest by developers, the system might be in an outstanding place when the next console generation joins in with a 20-50 games catalogue.
All in all, it went way better then anyone of us would have guessed two years back, didn't it?
But reading here and on reddit, it seems all expectiations have grown ridiculously. It's still way to early for all the divaism we see in the community (blaming studios for not delivering ports in time or delivering faulty updates, if even for hours. We see flamewars for similar things waaaay to regularly). And on the other side repeating the list of most desirable games again and again in diverse "what's still missing" threads. We should concentrate on developing a productive community and push the games we have and likes to our friends. *my opinion*
Last edited by const on 2 Nov 2015 at 11:28 pm UTC
5 Likes
Port quality is a big issue here. Very few titles on SteamOS support surround sound even if surround is working on the Windows version. Even among Valve's own games, CS:GO is the only one that supports surround on Linux and it only supports 5.1, not 7.1.
This is the case with Alien Isolation. Stereo only. I contacted Feral about it and they had no idea it wasn't working because they had never tested it, presumably due to a lack of surround hardware.
Sure, perhaps most desktop gamers play on headphones, but a console that doesn't take advantage of home theater equipment isn't going to take off.
Last edited by Starbelly on 3 Nov 2015 at 12:48 am UTC
This is the case with Alien Isolation. Stereo only. I contacted Feral about it and they had no idea it wasn't working because they had never tested it, presumably due to a lack of surround hardware.
Sure, perhaps most desktop gamers play on headphones, but a console that doesn't take advantage of home theater equipment isn't going to take off.
Last edited by Starbelly on 3 Nov 2015 at 12:48 am UTC
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I'm going to be really happy after Christmas to see some sales figures, if only so people will be able to argue endlessly about the significance of them instead of about whether there can be any. The whole question of whether Steam Machines will sell is starting to really feel sterile to me; we've thrashed it to death pretty thoroughly and I'm getting to where I just wish it would go away.
The other thing I've been wondering about is, what about the other machines? When I look up steam machines on Steam, I get a long list from various different manufacturers. Most of them are bloody expensive high-end things, but there are a few affordable ones. Any reviews of them, or comparisons between them and the Alienware? Not so far that I'm aware of.
The other thing I've been wondering about is, what about the other machines? When I look up steam machines on Steam, I get a long list from various different manufacturers. Most of them are bloody expensive high-end things, but there are a few affordable ones. Any reviews of them, or comparisons between them and the Alienware? Not so far that I'm aware of.
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Nyamiou 3 Nov 2015
Seriously this video suck. They are much better pre-release review of the Steam Machines like this :
This one (start at 17:30) :
http://www.co-optimus.com/article/13660/talking-the-alienware-steam-machine-and-halo-5-with-gamertag-radio.html
And this one :
View video on youtube.com
People shouldn't review this think as a PC, because as a PC it's sucks and it's expensive. They shouldn't review it either as the thing that is going to destroy Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo, because it's not going to happen, ever. The Steam Machines is just another console that is going to compete with the existing consoles, that has a different set of games that the ones you find usually on Sony and Microsoft consoles, but they are critically acclaimed games that will definitely appeal to some gamers. When you look at it this way, you realize that Steam Machines don't need anything but actual people trying them to be success, they won't be a major success right now but everything comes with time.
Last edited by Nyamiou on 3 Nov 2015 at 2:14 am UTC
This one (start at 17:30) :
http://www.co-optimus.com/article/13660/talking-the-alienware-steam-machine-and-halo-5-with-gamertag-radio.html
And this one :
View video on youtube.com
People shouldn't review this think as a PC, because as a PC it's sucks and it's expensive. They shouldn't review it either as the thing that is going to destroy Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo, because it's not going to happen, ever. The Steam Machines is just another console that is going to compete with the existing consoles, that has a different set of games that the ones you find usually on Sony and Microsoft consoles, but they are critically acclaimed games that will definitely appeal to some gamers. When you look at it this way, you realize that Steam Machines don't need anything but actual people trying them to be success, they won't be a major success right now but everything comes with time.
Last edited by Nyamiou on 3 Nov 2015 at 2:14 am UTC
2 Likes
omer666 3 Nov 2015
The Wii doesn't have all those AAA titles either, yet the Wii also lacks the 1500+ games that Linux has, many of which are other AAA titles.You're talking about Wii U I guess ? Because not only did the Wii get a lot of games (1527 according to Wikipedia), but it also got a lot of big Japanese RPG titles, big platformers, all of the CoD shit and so on.
Wii U, is another matter...
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