Ars Technica recently ran a few Windows vs SteamOS benchmarks, and it shows what we here already know: A lot of ports have worse performance on SteamOS & Linux.
While the benchmark is limited in the selection, and it's only on one system, we've all seen this before ourselves. I would also like to point out SteamOS has a much older Nvidia driver version, and I doubt the Ars guy manually updated the SteamOS driver, so the Windows tests are done on a much newer driver.
It's a shame, but there's no point hiding from the facts. Right now most ports run worse on Linux, a lot of it is down to OpenGL, but porters are also to blame for not optimising enough. I get why porters can't spend all their time optimising, they have to make money after-all and ports need to be pushed out quickly, but it's still annoying.
Vulkan could be SteamOS & Linux only real chance at having a level playing field, I just hope it doesn't take too long for it to come out and be used in games for us.
In regards to the gaps in performance on Valve titles: I saw first-hand how big a performance jump Dota 2 gave with Source 2 having a fully native OpenGL implementation, so I hope Valve have plans to update their other titles.
This bit caught my attention, as it's not down to Valve or Linux developers. It's down to the game developers, the game porters, Nvidia and AMD pushing performance in their drivers and Vulkan coming along to help out too.
What are your thoughts? Personally, I know I'm going to get less performance, but I'm in it for the long-run here.
Windows has pretty much had a monopoly on PC gaming for how many years? It will take time for Linux performance to catch up. Not even getting into all the game-specific optimizations the driver vendors do on Windows. Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
While the benchmark is limited in the selection, and it's only on one system, we've all seen this before ourselves. I would also like to point out SteamOS has a much older Nvidia driver version, and I doubt the Ars guy manually updated the SteamOS driver, so the Windows tests are done on a much newer driver.
It's a shame, but there's no point hiding from the facts. Right now most ports run worse on Linux, a lot of it is down to OpenGL, but porters are also to blame for not optimising enough. I get why porters can't spend all their time optimising, they have to make money after-all and ports need to be pushed out quickly, but it's still annoying.
Vulkan could be SteamOS & Linux only real chance at having a level playing field, I just hope it doesn't take too long for it to come out and be used in games for us.
In regards to the gaps in performance on Valve titles: I saw first-hand how big a performance jump Dota 2 gave with Source 2 having a fully native OpenGL implementation, so I hope Valve have plans to update their other titles.
QuoteHopefully, Valve and other Linux developers can continue improving SteamOS performance to the point where high-end games can be expected to at least run comparably between Linux and Windows. Until then, though, it's hard to recommend a SteamOS box to anyone who wants to get the best graphical performance out of their PC hardware.
This bit caught my attention, as it's not down to Valve or Linux developers. It's down to the game developers, the game porters, Nvidia and AMD pushing performance in their drivers and Vulkan coming along to help out too.
What are your thoughts? Personally, I know I'm going to get less performance, but I'm in it for the long-run here.
Windows has pretty much had a monopoly on PC gaming for how many years? It will take time for Linux performance to catch up. Not even getting into all the game-specific optimizations the driver vendors do on Windows. Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
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linux_gamer 13 Nov 2015
Anyone know if the fact geekbench been compiled with clang 3.3(2013) would effect it with regards steamos using the 4xx kernel ? seem to remember reading some good gains in the last few versions of llvm/clang.Of the Top500 supercomputers only 1 uses Windows and 488 use Linux only (entire Top100) http://www.top500.org/statistics/sublist/ . If the floating points calculations would decrease by 10% when using Linux the owners would loose millions to dozens of millions.
Last edited by linux_gamer on 13 Nov 2015 at 8:40 pm UTC
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That totally beside the point, the fact is that journalist cannot be trusted. What would you say if you discovered that major political journalists of your countries where discussing together on a mailing list what should be the next president? If they would all keep their jobs would you listen to them when they reveal all together a strange major scandal on a candidate just weeks before the election? You don't need to answer that.Also I would add that the guy who wrote this is not clean at all
I would also add that
1) Breitbart is an ultra-right-wing smear paper
2) Milo is, likewise, a very unsavoury character
3) The article you quoted is oozing with crocodile excrement
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Game specific driver optimizations is an abomination anyway. That's partially what makes OpenGL such a mess. Hopefully Vulkan will put an end to it.
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This has been discussed many times before on this very site. Ability to upgrade, number of "launch titles", price of games etc. And personally I don't see how the download thing is a bigger issue for anyone with a half-decent connection than obtaining a DVD. But much depends on the next few months, on Vulkan, on game developer interest and other factors. Currently there's little incentive indeed.Why do you think console gamers should use a steam machine over their console ?This list goes on. Let me ask a real question here , which market is the target for steam machines right of now?Console gamers?
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That totally beside the pointNo.
the fact is that journalist cannot be trustedNo.
major political journalists of your countries where discussing together on a mailing listNo.
You don't need to answer that.I can, however, sell you a very reasonably priced tin foil hat.
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You don't need to answer that.I can, however, sell you a very reasonably priced tin foil hat.
If your post only consisted of that line, it would have been twice as good ;-D
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Very funny, put it up your ***.You don't need to answer that.I can, however, sell you a very reasonably priced tin foil hat.
Last edited by Nyamiou on 13 Nov 2015 at 9:24 pm UTC
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No one here should be surprised at these results. Especially with a clean Linux system and clean Windows system. I think that gap would shrink if you took a Linux and Windows computer after a year of use. All the Windows and OS X users at my work complain how slow their computers are and that they need to do a fresh install.
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Mohandevir 13 Nov 2015
That's why I wrote, on another post, that Valve's strategy is based on Vulkan. If Vulkan sends DirectX "out of business", the performance gap will, at least, vanish and ports will be much easier to do.
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Very funny, put it up your ass.
You know, coming back to your earlier post, there are certain people in my country who do claim that the political journals are conspiring to keep the current politicians in power, and to deceive the white German public. They call themselves "PEGIDA", the patriotic Europeans against the Islamification of the Occident.
These are the people that run around crying "Lügenpresse" (lying press). These are the people who talk about the evils of "gender mainstreaming", "white genocide" and the "PC police". These are the people burning refugee homes (this year, 2015, Germany had a burning refugee home every couple of days).
These are the racist, sexist, homophobic undercurrents of the German society, that, for some reason, have been given free reign lately.
And there is a certain overlap between the PEGIDA people and the German part of the crocodile mob, that is, after all, fond of using words like "Jewkesian". Funny, that.
6 Likes, Who?
You know, coming back to your earlier post, there are certain people in my country who do claim that the political journals are conspiring to keep the current politicians in power, and to deceive the white German public. They call themselves "PEGIDA", the patriotic Europeans against the Islamification of the Occident.
Just to show how completely off-topic you are: Left-wing activists (and they needn't be extremists in my opinion) also argue that journalists are failing in showing the faults in current political systems. Let's please focus on the windows-vs-linux performance situation.
And to that: Yes, the performance of many games on Linux is lower, we know that and it should come as no surprise to any half-respectable game/technology-website. Yet it should also come as no surprise to them that that situation isn't due to the OS itself, perse. Indeed, Phoronix has benchmarks to prove that things can run just as well under Linux as they do under Windows*, but those benchmarks also point to one more thing: It all depends on optimisation. Linux, I suppose, has more room for that, but Windows has the lead. Mainly because of the history of optimising games/graphical applications under Windows, so I suppose that's a real chicken-and-egg situation.
*when using proprietary drivers, though I am quite happy that AMD open-source drivers appear to be making decent progress.
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GustyGhost 13 Nov 2015
Just how many of us here are seriously dedicated to performance anyways? I still haven't gotten myself a "real gaming card". I still have what was at the time the bare minimum card supported for Oil Rush. I'm happy with my 15 pieces of flair.
I once was. Built a powerful tower with a high-heat, power-thirsty GPU... got the tee shirt. Now that I've experienced it I'm done with that hassle. APUs for me from here on out!
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Some thoughts:
CS:GO -> Positional Audio doesn't work as expected out of the box , mouse input is hard to configure | requires good linux knowledge | to get full performance you need to tweak the starting commandline | some still have issues (microstutters) with multithreading enabled | performance below windows
DOTA2 -> performance below windows
Not according to these comparisons
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkDnbi0N7qM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YM8qXbJqMvs
Granted, these are rare cases (War Thunder is another example that comes to mind) but it is not an inherent problem of the platform.
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slaapliedje 13 Nov 2015
I've got to wonder, does anyone in here have an Alienware Steam Machine? I'm curious if you can install the 4.2.5 kernel from jessie-backports, and what the performance difference is?
Yes, unlike what some people still believe.... SteamOS is basically Debian Jessie with a tweaked kernel and a 'Steam Big Picture' session in GDM. So I'm wondering if going to the 4.2 kernel would improve performance.
Yes, unlike what some people still believe.... SteamOS is basically Debian Jessie with a tweaked kernel and a 'Steam Big Picture' session in GDM. So I'm wondering if going to the 4.2 kernel would improve performance.
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I maybe alone in this respect but since I have been using Linux since the mid 90's I got my jollies playing things in Wine, the few native games or on other emulators just because I thought it was so cool to be able to do things on Linux (as far as gaming goes and was usually floored it worked) , now that it has come so far people are comparing it to Windows and in Window's last bastion. How wicked is that?
Last edited by Xzyl on 13 Nov 2015 at 10:57 pm UTC
Last edited by Xzyl on 13 Nov 2015 at 10:57 pm UTC
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More importantly, the ability to play whole categories of games that consoles haven't been able to up until now. Try playing Civilization on an XBone.This has been discussed many times before on this very site. Ability to upgrade, number of "launch titles", price of games etc.Why do you think console gamers should use a steam machine over their console ?This list goes on. Let me ask a real question here , which market is the target for steam machines right of now?Console gamers?
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You know, I generally respect you and like seeing your posts, but that was some pretty nasty coprolite. "Disagree with me and you're a fascist!" Well. I guess if I'm not with you, I'm against you?Very funny, put it up your ass.
You know, coming back to your earlier post, there are certain people in my country who do claim that the political journals are conspiring to keep the current politicians in power, and to deceive the white German public.
(snip bla de bla)
Last edited by Purple Library Guy on 13 Nov 2015 at 11:05 pm UTC
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I had originally thought that maybe if Valve was going to make this push for the Steam Machines, that they'd do an end run around NVidia and AMD's co-operation if necessary by pouring resources into the open source drivers, getting 'em to rough parity with Windows drivers by Steam Machine release. They've had a bunch of extra time, after all. But nope.
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I'm not surprised in the least bit. Actually, articles like that are exactly what I expected to see within the week of the official launch. We know probably 98% of Linux games don't run in parity to windows performance wise.
The good thing is that the games it does share with the PS4/XB1 probably still run better than their PS4/XB1 counterparts even if they don't run as well as they do in Windows. By "better" I mean is higher than the 900p/30fps that seems to be plaguing this generation of Sony/MS consoles. However, I don't think that is enough of an incentive to win those console players over.
The bad is that most of the games that sell consoles to console gamers just aren't there and that's a HUGE problem.
The ugly.. "steam machine" makers are already saying they won't use SteamOS.
The good thing is that the games it does share with the PS4/XB1 probably still run better than their PS4/XB1 counterparts even if they don't run as well as they do in Windows. By "better" I mean is higher than the 900p/30fps that seems to be plaguing this generation of Sony/MS consoles. However, I don't think that is enough of an incentive to win those console players over.
The bad is that most of the games that sell consoles to console gamers just aren't there and that's a HUGE problem.
The ugly.. "steam machine" makers are already saying they won't use SteamOS.
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I maybe alone in this respect but since I have been using Linux since the mid 90's I got my jollies playing things in Wine, the few native games or on other emulators just because I thought it was so cool to be able to do things on Linux (as far as gaming goes and was usually floored it worked) , now that it has come so far people are comparing it to Windows and in Window's last bastion. How wicked is that?Not alone in this regard, I remember having my first game working in Wine: Shadow Man, which at that time (1999) was "hot". It was more of a slideshow, but hey, it worked.
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