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I may not like Garry Newman, or his games, but I know they are important to some people. I thought it was worth highlighting this. I will keep my own personal thoughts out of it this time.
You can see the full reddit post here.
How do you feel about the Linux versions of Garry's Mod and Rust? Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
Garry Newman, FacepunchSomething to keep in mind regarding Linux support. We don't make the engine, Unity do. So there's only so much we can do. Any problems that come up we try to fix. The only times problems aren't fixed is if fixing something for Linux would break something on Windows. That's where the quote in twitter comes from.
The hard truth is, from our point of view, that linux isn't financially worth us developing for. We develop for linux because it's the right thing to do. That said, we're obviously doing a shitty job supporting linux though, so it seems like we'd be better off not supporting it at all than supporting it half assed. This is something we have to consider when deciding whether to release games for Linux in the future. At the moment I'm leaning towards not releasing Linux versions of our future games.
You can see the full reddit post here.
How do you feel about the Linux versions of Garry's Mod and Rust? Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
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The comments on this article are closed.
ElectricPrism Dec 4, 2015
Quoting: shigutsoI used to follow him on social media, now I just don't waste my time with him anymore.
Looks like he and his "crew" aren't good with Linux. And they will probably never be, because they are too used to Windows. I think they should hire Feral to build their Linux binaries.
You hit the nail on the head. In Life I find people lack perseverance - these attitudes are common - Skate Boarding is TooHard™. Linux is TooHard™. Fixing My Car TooHard™. Playing a RPG Video Games without SpoonFed Tutorials... TooHard™.
It just goes to show the sheer lack of interest in expanding a skillset, and a lifestyle where everything is Instant, Google any question you have and get a answer in 2 seconds. Instant Gratification. This future generation is lazier and dumber than ever.
Quoting: SamsaiI say "meh". Garry is a bit of a one hit wonder and even that game hardly counts as a game. I don't think any of his future creations are going to interest me.
I remember GarysMod performance was pretty bad, but I still played it as one of my Early Linux games, I was more than happy to shell out $400 on a new GPU to get the frame-rate fixed (nearly 200% more than I ever spent on a GPU before and I bought two for both my Linux' Gaming Rigs).
Quoting: dnlbainesI think Rust is a great game. The performance is bad on all platforms not just Linux and over the last few weeks they have made great improvements.
If you put your mind to it you can acomplish anything? Like profiling and benching slowdowns? Yup.
In all truth, I think ARK has already usurped and risen above Rust, I find when someone's #1 crown is taken away their ego often is shattered and their pride hurt, they usually when they turn to blasting and making excuses as to why their game / product / etc didn't do well. Once again Linux is the scapegoat, kick the dog - it can't fight back, It'll make you feel better, go ahead!
Quoting: dnlbainesI don't feel there is a need for people to start putting him, his team or his games down purely because he said something "anti Linux".
I see his statements more as pure ignorance, and a indicator that the days of GameDev being his passion may be long past. I believe it takes 1/3 Passion, 1/3 Money & Time and 1/3 Skill - I actually pitty him for seeing it entirely as a monetary cash cow waiting to be exploited.
Quoting: dnlbainesAs much as we all want to see more games coming to Linux the truth is right now there is very little money to be made for the cost. This will hopefully improve but it is the truth.
I would like to see some facts to justify such a statement, I for one have Linux games coming out my hair and it seems I've bene overbuying everything Linux to support the platform.
Quoting: dnlbainesHe is actually making a very valid point in that if something is going to have Linux support it should have good support and so I respect his decision fully.
Not necessarily. When a manufacturer stalls a product from deployment for the last 5-10% of perfection they really hurt their future. It's better to release a game on Linux with a 33% Performance Loss and Profile it later so your pockets get lined with more cash to support the cause.
You ever see how fast they build Walmarts and Hamburger Joints? They construct the building in 3 months practically because they're smart enough to know that the sooner they can start taking peoples money the better for their checkbook, a 1-2 year construction process would mean loss of millions of dollars in operation profits. It doesn't have to be perfect to sell, Road Redemption is a example of that - but you will need to communicate with the community to improve whatever issues there are instead of watch the game with a pint of beer and ignore your job.
Quoting: dnlbainesThat said I would love to see his and his teams future games on Linux and hope that a growing market share and improved support from engines such as Unity will change his mind.
I can't even Imagine the nightmare of a multiperson game design in Unity, I can't imagine they have GIT or any kind of way for people to work on the same product at the same time, sounds like a nightmare.
Quoting: dnlbainesWe are a great community, but I do get somewhat upset when people make negative comments about things purely because of a lack of Linux support or a statement made against Linux. We should be a friendly and thankful community as otherwise there is even less of a reason for anyone to bring their games to Linux.
Agreed we should emit a friendly aura. However, thankful? Screw that - take my cash, "thanks" will not bring games to my platform, "wheel barels of cash will". Additionally, it's a strategic Business Plan to tap a market, like a Oil Well with 0 refineries on it, Linux users are hungry and will take anything so it's easy to rise to #1 in a genre.
Additionally, I'm not going to stand by if someone blasts SteamOS/Linux because of their pure ignorance and lack of respect for things they don't understand. You gotta nip that in the bud and teach them to take us seriously, not in a rude way but in a educational way where you expose their true motives behind their statements be it trollism, or genuine ignorance.
Quoting: XelancerNobody is forcing developers to support Tux, if its too hard then I/we forgive them.
That said;
- Linux gamers suffer less from 'casual gamer'-itus.
- Were much more willing to problem solve and much more invested in what we spend our time on.
- This too reflects in our collective maturity, wisdom and disposable income.
Knowing your target market - first rule of any business - means that developers who make games we collectively LIKE will undoubtedly shine through in more positive reviews/feedback.
I know right, It's like Business 101 evades some persons who are in a position of CEO like authority over a entity.
Quoting: GuestBut I agree, maybe Linux will be more profitable if people put more effort into developing for it. Not just to "make it work," but to understand and have a some practical experience using Linux beyond the level of novice.
This is an important point, I forgive everyone putting foot in unknown territory, Linux is hard, Linux is completly Alien to say Windows, and Linux is Powerful and Amazing. I wouldn't expect a noob even with godlike C# / .NET / XNA skills to instantly be a Linux God, that glorious skillset takes time.
Quoting: GuestStill, one of these days, we'll have some forward-thinking developer make a totally kickass game only for Linux/SteamOS as an exclusive title.
Equally Important, Steam Machine/Linux Support from Day 1 in Engine Design has been extreemly beneficial - eg, Ark, Unreal Tournament 4 and Storm United are all under the same Engine - Ark runes better on a Linux SSD than on Windows 7 imo, better framerate and smoother.
When Linux is a afterthought, performance is the price paid.
Quoting: GuestHey, I can dream, right?
Dream Not. Open Your Eyes, the Future is a landslide victory, developers and gamers once entrenched will perpetuate Steam Machines until they dominate the Living Room like they Dominate the Office.
Last edited by ElectricPrism on 4 December 2015 at 11:52 pm UTC
3 Likes, Who?
Quoting: dnlbainesWe are a great community, but I do get somewhat upset when people make negative comments about things purely because of a lack of Linux support or a statement made against Linux. We should be a friendly and thankful community as otherwise there is even less of a reason for anyone to bring their games to Linux.
+1
We come off as a cult, despite not really being one (no different than any hardcore gamer tbh). A lot of the frustration comes from a bottled up anger towards being ignored and/or ridiculed. Hopefully, someday this will change, and it is to some degree.
Probably the best role model this community needs right now is Ethan "flibitijibibo" Lee. We have to take these matters into our own hands (feedback and help is mission critical from our community, not just "buyer's remorse" ). Also have to realize entitlement isn't going to make progress. You don't see Ethan Lee freaking out because a developer declined an offer, he moves on to the next one.
Though the reality is also, some of us (like myself), can't program worth a crap, let alone understand terminal output (kudos to those who do!) for extensive bug reports. This is why I don't refund Linux supported games. You get what you put into, I guess the saying is.
Last edited by Keizgon on 4 December 2015 at 11:47 pm UTC
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Storminator16 Dec 5, 2015
(There is an theme I've seen on Steam forums and here that I would like to respond to.)
Let me get this right: Linux gamers should be thankful to even pay for Linux games? Is this what we've come to?
-Gamers pay "early access" for unfinished, lightly polished games?
-Gamers fund unfinished, lightly polished games through crowd sourcing.
-Gamers pay for bad ports w/ issues. Linux users (the 1%) just needs to be thankful.
I'm going to walk into my favourite pizza establishment right now and demand I pay full price for an medium sized pie. If he gives me only a slice, I should just be fine with that, too. Am I doing it right? I mean, he needs to make sure his kids have shoes on his feet and he can pay for his mistress and all.
Developers aren't homeless folks on the street corner looking for hand outs. These are video games makers looking for hand outs if you are willing to give it to them. You shouldn't be "thankful". You are saying "thanks" when you pay for polish. Pay for polish or we are going to have an Armageddon of crap-tastic games on Linux/SteamOS.
Last edited by Storminator16 on 5 December 2015 at 1:14 am UTC
Let me get this right: Linux gamers should be thankful to even pay for Linux games? Is this what we've come to?
-Gamers pay "early access" for unfinished, lightly polished games?
-Gamers fund unfinished, lightly polished games through crowd sourcing.
-Gamers pay for bad ports w/ issues. Linux users (the 1%) just needs to be thankful.
I'm going to walk into my favourite pizza establishment right now and demand I pay full price for an medium sized pie. If he gives me only a slice, I should just be fine with that, too. Am I doing it right? I mean, he needs to make sure his kids have shoes on his feet and he can pay for his mistress and all.
Developers aren't homeless folks on the street corner looking for hand outs. These are video games makers looking for hand outs if you are willing to give it to them. You shouldn't be "thankful". You are saying "thanks" when you pay for polish. Pay for polish or we are going to have an Armageddon of crap-tastic games on Linux/SteamOS.
Last edited by Storminator16 on 5 December 2015 at 1:14 am UTC
5 Likes, Who?
I never played any of their creations. Was never interested in them, so in that regard, I couldn't care less personally.
Though, every game not released for Linux is not good for our ecosystem, since some will like those. They're still trying to make money, and it's costs money to make Linux ports. Even if it's just for the testing and fixing part.
I doubt the statement though that it's a Unity issue which can't be fixed, too many games done too well with Unity. If it's a Unity issue, the right way to go is to go to Unity3D and ask them to fix their issues. Even if it's a Unity bug, there is always a way to work around this, but that sometimes is quite some work, which they probably didn't want to put into a port for a non profitable platform. Understandable.
How ever they decide, I wish them good luck for their future games.
Last edited by STiAT on 5 December 2015 at 1:29 am UTC
Though, every game not released for Linux is not good for our ecosystem, since some will like those. They're still trying to make money, and it's costs money to make Linux ports. Even if it's just for the testing and fixing part.
I doubt the statement though that it's a Unity issue which can't be fixed, too many games done too well with Unity. If it's a Unity issue, the right way to go is to go to Unity3D and ask them to fix their issues. Even if it's a Unity bug, there is always a way to work around this, but that sometimes is quite some work, which they probably didn't want to put into a port for a non profitable platform. Understandable.
How ever they decide, I wish them good luck for their future games.
Last edited by STiAT on 5 December 2015 at 1:29 am UTC
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Quoting: Storminator16(There is an theme I've seen on Steam forums and here that I would like to respond to.)
Let me get this right: Linux gamers should be thankful to even pay for Linux games? Is this what we've come to?
-Gamers pay "early access" for unfinished, lightly polished games?
-Gamers fund unfinished, lightly polished games through crowd sourcing.
-Gamers pay for bad ports w/ issues. Linux users (the 1%) just needs to be thankful.
I'm going to walk into my favourite pizza establishment right now and demand I pay full price for an medium sized pie. If he gives me only a slice, I should just be fine with that, too. Am I doing it right? I mean, he needs to make sure his kids have shoes on his feet and he can pay for his mistress and all.
Developers aren't homeless folks on the street corner looking for hand outs. These are video games makers looking for hand outs if you are willing to give it to them. You shouldn't be "thankful". You are saying "thanks" when you pay for polish. Pay for polish or we are going to have an Armageddon of crap-tastic games on Linux/SteamOS.
I'm not telling you to bend over and take it (though I will say that if you bought an Early Access game at this point; that business model isn't even working out for the consumer on ALL platforms).
What you are expressing is something that will only get resolved with legal action. Who's going to take up that case though, let alone without scaring off developers?
Anger isn't going to solve the situation. Working with the developer does.
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Quoting: Storminator16I'm going to walk into my favourite pizza establishment right now and demand I pay full price for an medium sized pie. If he gives me only a slice, I should just be fine with that, too. Am I doing it right? I mean, he needs to make sure his kids have shoes on his feet and he can pay for his mistress and all.
Your analogy sucks. It's more like, you walk into your favorite pizza establishment and demand a gluten-free vegan pizza. They are one of the few who decide to oblige and it takes them longer to put your special pizza together, since a gluten-free vegan option has never been part of their menu before. So you berate them, and still they work hard on your pizza. Finally, they bring it to you, and you're still not happy because they used chunks of tofu instead of seitan. You throw the pizza on the floor and walk out without paying, all the while screaming, "this pizza establishment is oppressing me and the other gluten-intolerant vegans!"
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My daughter loves Gary's Mod and it performs well even on modest hardware (Linux of course). I have heard about the performance issues with rust (across all platforms) however since it's not my cup of tea never really thought about it. I bought 2 copies of GMOD to run on Linux (full price) so while it may not be financial worth it he got at least 2 sales he wouldn't of and made a young girl very happy playing his game. If making people happy doesn't interest him then it will be reflected in his games and I hope he remembers making fun games is what it's all about otherwise you just crank out shit like EA.
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He speaks to truth. If you're butthurt about it, then too bad.
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ElectricPrism Dec 5, 2015
Quoting: BillNyeTheBlackGuyHe speaks to truth. If you're butthurt about it, then too bad.
I love you guys
Gonna make me get teary eyed about having such excellent family in linux. Be excellent to to each other.
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Porting has merits on its own. Notably, you'll find bugs that affect all platforms; so the overall quality of the software will increase.
And of course, if you would start developing cross-platform, a lot of these bugs would turn up very early, and you would not need to put in a huge effort at the end, when you decide to port. In fact, you probably end up with a much better codebase throughout, needing less last-minute bug-fixing sprints, even for your most important platform.
Additionally, if some other platform creeps up later (like, say, Sony decides it would like your game on the PS4 as well), it makes it so much easier to port then.
And of course, if you would start developing cross-platform, a lot of these bugs would turn up very early, and you would not need to put in a huge effort at the end, when you decide to port. In fact, you probably end up with a much better codebase throughout, needing less last-minute bug-fixing sprints, even for your most important platform.
Additionally, if some other platform creeps up later (like, say, Sony decides it would like your game on the PS4 as well), it makes it so much easier to port then.
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