Consortium: The Tower looks incredible, promising day-1 support and needs funding (updated)

Quoting: scaineThanks for the update Stesen. Can I ask a couple of questions, since your update still leaves me with some uncertainty - mainly because you keep inferring things should work, but if you don't know, I don't see how you can expect us to pledge.

So my two questions are: 1) how does the Linux build work right now and 2) Can you confirm that Linux builds be available at your $50 tier "Rook"?

Given your response, if you were on Kickstarter, you'd probably have my money in the near future. Sadly, I don't trust Fig, but best of luck with your campaign.

I have to echo this post. I would also very much like to know if the Linux build has even been tested yet, and if it will see regular tests.

Give us a finished game with Linux support, then ask us for our money. Yeah?


Last edited by Mountain Man on 9 April 2016 at 11:41 am UTC

Quoting: liamdaweI would hardly call that upfront, that's an old post before this campaign was even a thing, that linked first post states:

QuoteCan't guarantee a day 1 Linux release, but it will be something we'll be looking at from the start

Yet this campaign said Linux/Mac was day-1 in the FAQ, I email them, it gets edited with no reply to me.

I consider that a bit shady personally.

If it does come to Linux sometime, great, I will play it. There's no way I'm funding it now though.

That is very shady. How many of their pledges up to this point were based on apparently false promises of a Day 1 Linux release?

Quoting: stesenbuilding for Linux or OSX will be no different than building for Windows. Just open the project in the editor and pick a different option under Build.

No, just no. Stop right there.
Do not imagine it is as easy as to just develop for Windows and then push the button that says "Linux" and ship it. This attitude above is the exact reason why we got far too many Unity-based games with issues on Linux. This is why we've had to do idiotic things like rename installed files due to case sensitive file system. This is why we've had to live with insane mouse tracking, horrible screen tearing, faulty focus handling and utterly annoying multi-monitor issues.

It's not - NOT - that easy. There are fundamental differences between the platforms that must be handled and tested throughout the entire development cycle, and the only good way of releasing something on multiple platforms is to plan this from stage one.


Last edited by Beamboom on 9 April 2016 at 7:06 pm UTC

Quoting: scaineThanks for the update Stesen. Can I ask a couple of questions, since your update still leaves me with some uncertainty - mainly because you keep inferring things should work, but if you don't know, I don't see how you can expect us to pledge.

So my two questions are: 1) how does the Linux build work right now and 2) Can you confirm that Linux builds be available at your $50 tier "Rook"?

Given your response, if you were on Kickstarter, you'd probably have my money in the near future. Sadly, I don't trust Fig, but best of luck with your campaign.

The Tower is currently in late-stage pre-production. This means that, while we have some in-engine content created, most of what we are doing is concepting, planning, and doing systems-design. So there is no "Linux build" yet any more than there are "builds" for the other platforms. We've mostly just been running in-editor at this point.

Once main-phase development starts, we'll be setting up a new project on the latest engine, recreating the components we've written during pre-production using more production-quality code, and proceeding with regular testing on all supported platforms.

We plan on using an automated testing system for technical components, and will be doing in-person testing of each supported platform on a regular basis and as we pass development milestones to test end-to-end integration.

Anyone who backs at $20 or higher will receive one copy of the game for a single physical platform of their choice (meaning (Windows/OSX/Linux) | XBOne | PS4).

Quoting: Beamboom

Quoting: stesenbuilding for Linux or OSX will be no different than building for Windows. Just open the project in the editor and pick a different option under Build.

No, Just no. Stop right there.
Do not imagine it is as easy as to just develop for Windows and then push the button that says "Linux" and ship it. This attitude above is the exact reason why we got far too many Unity-based games with issues on Linux. This is why we've had to do idiotic things like rename installed files due to case sensitive file system. This is why we've had to live with insane mouse tracking, horrible screen tearing, faulty focus handling and utterly annoying multi-monitor issues.

It's not - NOT - that easy. There are fundamental differences between the platforms that must be handled and tested throughout the entire development cycle, and obviously preferably planned from stage one.

We will not simply be "developing for Windows and then plug-and-chug building for other platforms sight-unseen", and I'm sorry if I came across that way. I used "build" there to basically mean "the process of compiling". I highlighted the "press a different button" because that is what it ultimately boils down to, process-wise in UE4. The key meaning of that is that, unlike with the first game, there will be no having to write entire graphics pipelines twice (as an example), as the developers at Epic have already done that for anything we don't write in-house. We will of course be following up with the results of those builds and making sure to isolate any platform-specific issues that arise. And anything we do write in-house, we'll be writing considering a cross-platform environment from the start, not once we already have an established codebase. I'd also like to think that, as several of us are Linux/OSX users ourselves (myself included), we'd know that the *nix filesystem is case-sensitive (honestly it annoys me more that Windows isn't). ;)

Stesen,
Do you guys use the UE editors also on Linux/Mac when developing the project? I do get the impression you don't, from what you say here. And if so, I'd strongly suggest you compile and test the project regularly.

The case sensitive filesystem detail was only meant as a rather exotic example of the the more dismal moments we have to put ut with from developers who just compile it for Linux after clearly having only QA'd it on Windows. The various faulty releases for Linux so far have in common that the issues were of incredibly mundane character. We talk about issues that should have been discovered very, very early on had any QA been done at all.

More common - far too common - are the issues with mouse handling for example. Or handling of international keyboards, screen resolutions, multiple screens, or game controller issues (for those who are supposed to support that). Things that just needs to be tested and handled properly. Things that do differ between the platforms (seeing how the issues are not there in the Windows versions).

Your development cycle is obviously none of my business, but I just wanted to use this opportunity to point this out now that the dialogue was here.
I wish you the best of luck - I look forward to keep an eye on the progress with this one. The video sure look promising!


Last edited by Beamboom on 10 April 2016 at 5:48 pm UTC

Everyone currently in-engine is on Windows. That'll change once we get the full team together/everyone doing more. I'm on a triple-booted MacBook, and one of our other programmers also uses a Mac. We'll also be getting test machines to fill in any gaps and of course Linux is pretty low-effort to install and use on most computers these days (Arch and company notwithstanding, of course).

As I said above, regular testing will be a part of our development cycle from the start with The Tower. We learned the hard way with the first game that our type of game especially needs heavy testing.

As for editors, Windows and OSX can only be compiled for from their native editors. Linux can be either cross-compiled for from Windows or compiled to from the native editor (the cross-compiler was provided originally because the engine's Linux support happened before the editor's, though both are now supported).

Generally, since UE4 project files are cross-platform portable (save for anything custom-compiled outside of the engine, of course), we'll likely find each developer using the editor on whichever platform they happen to be running, with occasional ventures onto other platforms when platform-specific work/debugging is required. Builds themselves will most likely be automated.

The case-sensitive filesystem issue bites us in the ass because it appears that whatever storage system Valve uses is not case sensitive, like Windows, and the only way to change the case of a file is to rename it to something else and then change it back. This is why the Firewatch guys had to rename everything, and the Planet Explorers guys spent something like six months getting it all fixed (if they have done by now). Basically it needs to be right before uploading to Steam.

The other major thing Beamboom didn't mention that devs keep getting wrong is to not use the XDG Base Directory Specification.

Thanks for the tip. Did not know about the Steam thing. Will be extra-careful then.