I decided to do a bit of a learning exercise today and do my first ever video comparison between two platforms. I picked Tomb Raider since that's what's hot right now. The performance difference between Windows 10 and Linux is quite large in Tomb Raider.
This is my first ever attempt, but I think it turned out reasonably well. The problem I've found is getting a smooth video of the benchmark on Linux, as all recording software made it slightly stutter (with no effect on actual FPS, tested against my previous results). This happens in some games, others are fine.
The second issue is the Tomb Raider benchmark is actually a little different each time with the animations that happen and their timings. Even in this video the timing of the animations at one point is different, but the rest is fine.
To note: This was on the exact same settings, double checked. High preset, motion blur off.
Tested on
Linux Mint 17.3
Intel i7-5960X
Nvidia 980ti
16GB RAM
Also, the game is actually heavier than the benchmark as I noted in my port report.
The performance difference is quite striking, and quite sad to see such a major difference in performance when testing it myself. Considering the power of my test rig, I do expect better.
I have no doubt Feral Interactive will push out future patches to improve things. They do support their titles very well, but it's still sad to see such a massive difference. I didn't even realize the difference was so large until I performed these tests. Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
This is my first ever attempt, but I think it turned out reasonably well. The problem I've found is getting a smooth video of the benchmark on Linux, as all recording software made it slightly stutter (with no effect on actual FPS, tested against my previous results). This happens in some games, others are fine.
The second issue is the Tomb Raider benchmark is actually a little different each time with the animations that happen and their timings. Even in this video the timing of the animations at one point is different, but the rest is fine.
To note: This was on the exact same settings, double checked. High preset, motion blur off.
Tested on
Linux Mint 17.3
Intel i7-5960X
Nvidia 980ti
16GB RAM
Also, the game is actually heavier than the benchmark as I noted in my port report.
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The performance difference is quite striking, and quite sad to see such a major difference in performance when testing it myself. Considering the power of my test rig, I do expect better.
I have no doubt Feral Interactive will push out future patches to improve things. They do support their titles very well, but it's still sad to see such a massive difference. I didn't even realize the difference was so large until I performed these tests. Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
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Why is everybody saying that as long as it stays above 60fps it is fine? That is half the Windows performance, i.e. you need twice the GPU horsepower. Just because you happen to have a card that is capable of running TR at 60 frames per second, does not mean everybody does. For every gtx 980ti, there are ten 970s and twenty 960s. And so on. I played this game on my ancient 5770 back in the day and it ran quite decently. Do you think I'll get anything more than a slide show on Linux with whatever was the Nvidia equivalent of that card, in Linux? The number of games is not the problem of Linux anymore - clearly it is an issue that is getting resolved with time. But the performance is abysmal and the vague promise of the bright Vulkan future hardly makes me optimistic.
Last edited by mao_dze_dun on 1 May 2016 at 7:17 pm UTC
Last edited by mao_dze_dun on 1 May 2016 at 7:17 pm UTC
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This only further underline what both I and many other has insisted in the past, that Feral too use their set of middleware, "wrappers", call it what you want, on their "ports". So the difference between Feral and Virtual Programming are really not that far apart.
And I say this more in VP's defence than to talk down Feral. But in all fairness, it must be said.
Last edited by Beamboom on 1 May 2016 at 7:26 pm UTC
And I say this more in VP's defence than to talk down Feral. But in all fairness, it must be said.
Last edited by Beamboom on 1 May 2016 at 7:26 pm UTC
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Not to beat a dead horse, but this is why it's so important to encourage developers to make their games with OpenGL (or even better: Vulkan) in mind from the beginning. I'm curious to find out how much better it will be (if at all) translating from DirectX 12 to Vulkan.
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BlackBloodRum May 1, 2016
Quoting: MblackwellToo bad you can't go back in time and install whatever driver version was out right before the release of the game on Windows. I wonder how many driver specific performance hacks there are for this game by now.
Look up the driver that was current at the time, go here:
http://http.download.nvidia.com/Windows/
and for the linux driver of the time:
http://http.download.nvidia.com/XFree86/
Have fun :-).
Note: You'll also need a graphics card from the time too.
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Have to say that there is a level of performance that we can live with. But less than 50 percent of the original performance + regular drops to 20 fps in such a rig? And does hair look so awful for you all the time?
I currently play Definitive edition of that game on PS4 and have to say that sadly - it looks and works so much better than on your rig, while PS4 is a 350$ hardware and the game was bought for 49 pln (about 12 euro). How much did you pay for your rig? 1000 euro? 1500? 2000?
Sorry Feral, we love you, but we are not going to take whatever you give us.
I will buy this port but not now, especially with this performance for 20 euro. It is not OK in comparison with other platforms...
I currently play Definitive edition of that game on PS4 and have to say that sadly - it looks and works so much better than on your rig, while PS4 is a 350$ hardware and the game was bought for 49 pln (about 12 euro). How much did you pay for your rig? 1000 euro? 1500? 2000?
Sorry Feral, we love you, but we are not going to take whatever you give us.
I will buy this port but not now, especially with this performance for 20 euro. It is not OK in comparison with other platforms...
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I'm getting somewhat better performance both compared with Windows:
View video on youtube.com
And Wine:
View video on youtube.com
View video on youtube.com
And Wine:
View video on youtube.com
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This ingame benchmark is unusable, try to run around in Shanty Town in the linux version :P
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GustyGhost May 1, 2016
Quoting: wojtek88Have to say that there is a level of performance that we can live with. But less than 50 percent of the original performance + regular drops to 20 fps in such a rig? And does hair look so awful for you all the time?
I currently play Definitive edition of that game on PS4 and have to say that sadly - it looks and works so much better than on your rig, while PS4 is a 350$ hardware and the game was bought for 49 pln (about 12 euro). How much did you pay for your rig? 1000 euro? 1500? 2000?
Sorry Feral, we love you, but we are not going to take whatever you give us.
I will buy this port but not now, especially with this performance for 20 euro. It is not OK in comparison with other platforms...
True, but what are players giving up in order to play the PS4 version? They're bending over for vendor lock-in. What's important here is that we can play this game at all on a freedom supporting platform... baby steps.
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On the one hand it's great to have the game on linux, but on the other developers/porters cannot get a free pass just because a game has been released on the platform.
And personally I think it's slowly about time we moved from the 'wonderful the game is on linux!' mentality to the 'sweet, it runs very well, doesn't drop to unplayable framerates and doesn't crash' one.
And personally I think it's slowly about time we moved from the 'wonderful the game is on linux!' mentality to the 'sweet, it runs very well, doesn't drop to unplayable framerates and doesn't crash' one.
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Quoting: PangachatThis ingame benchmark is unusable, try to run around in Shanty Town in the linux version :PTrue, but in order to have relevant benchmark results between two system/configuration you need multiple as much as possible identical runs, at least 3 per test and it also has to be easily reproducible by other users.
Without a dedicated benchmark is pretty hard to do that and just doing similar runs in random locations doesn't cut it for a correct comparison.
Indeed, the included benchmark does not show how demanding the game can be, but is better than nothing and it doesn't require for you to fiddle around with voglperf/libframetime etc to get the results.
Last edited by dubigrasu on 1 May 2016 at 9:16 pm UTC
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Quoting: AnxiousInfusionQuoting: wojtek88Have to say that there is a level of performance that we can live with. But less than 50 percent of the original performance + regular drops to 20 fps in such a rig? And does hair look so awful for you all the time?
I currently play Definitive edition of that game on PS4 and have to say that sadly - it looks and works so much better than on your rig, while PS4 is a 350$ hardware and the game was bought for 49 pln (about 12 euro). How much did you pay for your rig? 1000 euro? 1500? 2000?
Sorry Feral, we love you, but we are not going to take whatever you give us.
I will buy this port but not now, especially with this performance for 20 euro. It is not OK in comparison with other platforms...
True, but what are players giving up in order to play the PS4 version? They're bending over for vendor lock-in. What's important here is that we can play this game at all on a freedom supporting platform... baby steps.
While I agree in general, you have to keep in mind current gaming on Linux is not DRM free (Games require very often Steam to even launch, so you are locked in with Steam). Most of the games are ported thanks to Valve and very often you are locked to Steam. And while platform (Linux) is open, games you run are not. And it is not so different than being locked in to PSN...
Anyway, I agree that we have to do baby steps. What I wanted to point out is that we do not need only bigger number of games. We need bigger numbers of games with a quality that is comparable to otger platforms. And according to benchmarks, performance of the Tomb Raider (2013) is not yet there. But I hope it will be. And it will be soon.
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Comparing results over 100 FPS doesn't make sense. People don't realize that you could optimize a game forever and maybe make it run on a potato, but it's not the point. When the game run with decent FPS on recent hardware you have to stop there or else you are losing money. I don't say they shouldn't continue to optimize the game (if there is FPS drops they should definitely do something about it), I say they shouldn't have to obtain the same level of performance of the Windows version that was released two years ago.
Last edited by Nyamiou on 1 May 2016 at 9:14 pm UTC
Last edited by Nyamiou on 1 May 2016 at 9:14 pm UTC
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uhm, after all that talking and assumption that feral will do something - is there actually any statement from them?
perhaps GOL or someone could ask them on twitter or something for a status update. I'd like to know whether they are (really) on it and whether there is something that can be done to improve the performance. surely there must be some reason why they delayed the release so long, I bet it was that issue with the performance.
also, mentioned that the CPU is kinda idle, that might be some indication that the rendering is done on gpu-level only - which would be sad news, since `changing` that would not be just as easy as some minor tweaks
perhaps GOL or someone could ask them on twitter or something for a status update. I'd like to know whether they are (really) on it and whether there is something that can be done to improve the performance. surely there must be some reason why they delayed the release so long, I bet it was that issue with the performance.
also, mentioned that the CPU is kinda idle, that might be some indication that the rendering is done on gpu-level only - which would be sad news, since `changing` that would not be just as easy as some minor tweaks
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GustyGhost May 1, 2016
Quoting: wojtek88While I agree in general, you have to keep in mind current gaming on Linux is not DRM free (Games require very often Steam to even launch, so you are locked in with Steam). Most of the games are ported thanks to Valve and very often you are locked to Steam. And while platform (Linux) is open, games you run are not. And it is not so different than being locked in to PSN...
Anyway, I agree that we have to do baby steps. What I wanted to point out is that we do not need only bigger number of games. We need bigger numbers of games with a quality that is comparable to otger platforms. And according to benchmarks, performance of the Tomb Raider (2013) is not yet there. But I hope it will be. And it will be soon.
I'm trying my best by using GOG and Humble as primary game sources but I cannot sacrifice too much at once. You need to take a little at a time. A crappy analogy might be that if you want to remove a tool from the mud, you have to enter the mud to retrieve the tool. I support Steam and Valve only until they're efforts have made commercial Linux games somewhat self sustaining. Only then can we start truly pushing DRM-free.
And this doesn't even account for the zoomed-out perspective that we eventually need to move away from x86 which is almost complete vendor lock-in if not for VIA and AMD. My bets are on RISC-V but, sadly, that is a fight for another day (or decade).
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Mountain Man May 2, 2016
Quoting: legluondunet61 to 154 fps it is enough to have a good gameplay isn't it?Yes. Anything above 60 fps is basically wasted since most monitors top out at 60 Hz (although higher-end monitors do go as high as 120 Hz). But still, it's a hard-sell trying to convince gamers to take up Linux when they see performance numbers cut in half compared to Windows.
This is fairly typical for a DirectX to OpenGL port, but hopefully when developers start using Vulkan, these performance disparities will disappear.
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Mountain Man May 2, 2016
Quoting: rkfgActually, the Linux version of XCOM 2 ran comparable to and even slightly better than the Windows version. It was Firaxis who "downgraded" some of the visuals in the performance patch. Feral just ported those changes into the Linux version.QuoteI have no doubt Feral Interactive will push out future patches to improve things.Yeah, just remember Shadow of Mordor and XCOM 2, how improved they were after the initial Linux release. Hint: just a little, nowhere near the Windows performance and sometimes by downgrading the settings like in XCOM 2.
View video on youtube.com
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boltronics May 2, 2016
I played Tomb Raider a couple of years ago under Wine 1.7.11 on weaker hardware than I have now (was a GTX660M) and didn't have any issues with it being too slow (that I can recall, anyway).
https://systemsaviour.com/finished-games/#GNU
Fereal could have easily "ported" this game a long time ago... although I agree that the new launcher is nice. I'm just disappointed that the newer Rise of the Tomb Raider wasn't ported instead, since that's the one that doesn't work.
https://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=33591
https://systemsaviour.com/finished-games/#GNU
Fereal could have easily "ported" this game a long time ago... although I agree that the new launcher is nice. I'm just disappointed that the newer Rise of the Tomb Raider wasn't ported instead, since that's the one that doesn't work.
https://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=33591
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Well don't forget nVidia's part in this.
Lately I remember playing Total War Attila (not a Feral port by any mean) and getting awful performance with the drivers it was released for, then everybody was blaming Creative Assembly for not optimising their game engine. Quite recently I updated to 361 series and gave it a try, to my surprise the game was running quite smoothly.
To be fair, I think Feral always do their best, but don't forget, nVidia need to get their drivers updated on time for game releases. Also the game's been out on Windows for more than two years, and it is very often used for benchmarks in the Windows world. Drivers must have been continually optimised in two years time... Hence that big difference between the two OS.
As usual, we have to wait. Not so long ago, I've had been waiting for nVidia to correct a display glitch happening on GNOME for a year and a half.
I think this company really needs to get their things sorted out way more quickly...
Lately I remember playing Total War Attila (not a Feral port by any mean) and getting awful performance with the drivers it was released for, then everybody was blaming Creative Assembly for not optimising their game engine. Quite recently I updated to 361 series and gave it a try, to my surprise the game was running quite smoothly.
To be fair, I think Feral always do their best, but don't forget, nVidia need to get their drivers updated on time for game releases. Also the game's been out on Windows for more than two years, and it is very often used for benchmarks in the Windows world. Drivers must have been continually optimised in two years time... Hence that big difference between the two OS.
As usual, we have to wait. Not so long ago, I've had been waiting for nVidia to correct a display glitch happening on GNOME for a year and a half.
I think this company really needs to get their things sorted out way more quickly...
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The numbers are pretty disappointing, there's no way around it. The thing is there might quite many people 'fencesitting' so to speak - they would ditch Windows in favour of linux if the latter offered adequate gaming experience. Ports like this one, while certainly playable and enjoyable, will not convince a lot of folks to change the os, or even dual-boot.
Bashing the porters or ranting is not necessary either - it's important the issue will be seriously investigated: as I said before, people reported low/very low CPU utilization during gameplay, maybe it's something worth looking into.
Bashing the porters or ranting is not necessary either - it's important the issue will be seriously investigated: as I said before, people reported low/very low CPU utilization during gameplay, maybe it's something worth looking into.
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