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Dota 2 is the first Valve game that will support the new Vulkan API and it could be as soon as next week.
Considering how early Valve had access to it, and even showed off a demo of it way before release of Vulkan I am still surprise Talos beat it to be the first public Vulkan game. Well, I say surprised, but "Valve Time" is a thing right?
It's exciting, as when Valve switched to Source 2 which had native OpenGL the performance was much better on Linux (in terms of smoothness and actual FPS figures) and Vulkan is supposed to improve it even more so.
Speaking on reddit, a Valve developer said this:
You can also see on SteamDB that Valve has added Vulkan content for both Windows and Linux, no Mac of course as Apple decided to go with their own Metal API.
Like I did with Dota 2 when Valve switched to Source 2, I will let you know how it runs when the Vulkan version is available. I imagine it will be possible to switch between OpenGL and Vulkan to compare it easily, as I can't imagine them instantly turning off an older and more stable API right away (that's just asking for trouble). Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
Considering how early Valve had access to it, and even showed off a demo of it way before release of Vulkan I am still surprise Talos beat it to be the first public Vulkan game. Well, I say surprised, but "Valve Time" is a thing right?
It's exciting, as when Valve switched to Source 2 which had native OpenGL the performance was much better on Linux (in terms of smoothness and actual FPS figures) and Vulkan is supposed to improve it even more so.
Speaking on reddit, a Valve developer said this:
FletcherDunn, ValveWe're going to release vulkan support soon, probably sometime next week. That DLC checkbox is an error and shouldn't be visible yet. Sorry for the confusion.
You can also see on SteamDB that Valve has added Vulkan content for both Windows and Linux, no Mac of course as Apple decided to go with their own Metal API.
Like I did with Dota 2 when Valve switched to Source 2, I will let you know how it runs when the Vulkan version is available. I imagine it will be possible to switch between OpenGL and Vulkan to compare it easily, as I can't imagine them instantly turning off an older and more stable API right away (that's just asking for trouble). Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
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FINALLYY! Hypee
Last edited by fabry92 on 19 May 2016 at 9:08 am UTC
Last edited by fabry92 on 19 May 2016 at 9:08 am UTC
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I think DOTA 2 with Vulkan is a very important milestone. The most important aspect lies in the technical details of this achievement. I believe that Valve mentioned that DOTA 2 was (for the most part) GPU bound. The superiority of Vulkan in CPU bound scenarios is pretty much guaranteed so it will be extremely interesting to measure the performance in a GPU bound scenario. If Vulkan's performance is equal or better than GL then this will mark a big win for Vulkan.
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If is an important milestone anyway, because Dota2 is the game on Steam that by far has the most players. If those players start using Vulkan, and if it is faster than OpenGL/DirectX, there is no reason for them not to, then Vulkan is suddenly an API that must work.
I.e. if AMD or Nvidia or Intel release a driver with broken Vulkan support, currently the subsets of players of the Talos Principle will notice and complain. I don't want to downplay the Talos Principle, it an such unique masterpiece of art that it is a must play for every gamer and even non-gamer, but fact of the matter is that its popularity by far isn't enough for Vulkan to become the standard API.
A game like Dota2 is a big step in the right direction, and so will Doom be. Even if there are no signs that Doom will come to Linux, it is still helping us to push Vulkan and make the decision easier for other game developers to use Vulkan.
I.e. if AMD or Nvidia or Intel release a driver with broken Vulkan support, currently the subsets of players of the Talos Principle will notice and complain. I don't want to downplay the Talos Principle, it an such unique masterpiece of art that it is a must play for every gamer and even non-gamer, but fact of the matter is that its popularity by far isn't enough for Vulkan to become the standard API.
A game like Dota2 is a big step in the right direction, and so will Doom be. Even if there are no signs that Doom will come to Linux, it is still helping us to push Vulkan and make the decision easier for other game developers to use Vulkan.
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Vulkan as a graphics API has already shown some impressive results in Doom 4 for Nvidia gtx 1080 presentation video. I'm more interested how it will perform on Linux with open source drivers.
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I hope we can see real fair benchmarks, between windows and linux, with vulkan :D
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linux_gamer 19 May 2016
Very good news for Linux gaming! But there is no confirmation that Vulkan will be present next week on both systems, maybe its just Windows (as Source 2 was ahead also) or Linux only (far less likely).
Last edited by linux_gamer on 19 May 2016 at 10:11 am UTC
no Mac of course as Apple decided to go with their own Metal API.And Microsoft is very happy about Vulkan, so they officially support it?
Last edited by linux_gamer on 19 May 2016 at 10:11 am UTC
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Very good news for Linux gaming! But there is no confirmation that Vulkan will be present next week on both systems, maybe its just Windows (as Source 2 was ahead also) or Linux only (far less likely).
no Mac of course as Apple decided to go with their own Metal API.And Microsoft is very happy about Vulkan, so they officially support it?
Same as they don't support opengl. What i can't understand is why nvidia, intel and amd don't add vulkan on their drivers for mac?
Last edited by bubexel on 19 May 2016 at 10:18 am UTC
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crazyg4merz 19 May 2016
My most played game ever. :D
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Same as they don't support opengl. What i can't understand is why nvidia, intel and amd don't add vulkan on their drivers for mac?Apple doesn't allow it.
On OS X, Apple controls the drivers, those are written only "with the help of" Nvidia, Intel etc., and not simply by Nvidia, Intel...
Specifics about this seem to be secret.
That is probably also why OS X is still at OpenGL 4.1 (4.0 actually).
And Metal doesn't even support features like Geometry shaders or Tesselation shaders, it's designed for mobile usage...
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I don't want to downplay the Talos Principle, it an such unique masterpiece of art that it is a must play for every gamer and even non-gamer, but fact of the matter is [...]
Well said!
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Apple doesn't allow it.
Allowing it is just one aspect. Adding an entrily new graphics API without coöperation from the OS vendor is quite a technical endeavour. The people developing such a thing needs to have a deep understanding of the operating system in order to be successfull.
To the credit of Windows, it is quite well documented how things work internally (partially due to pressure from anti-trust authorities), which makes adding an API without coöperation from Microsoft doable. For OS X, even if Apple would say "no objection", the knowledge how to succeed might not be available outside Apple.
Another aspect is the economical view: Who is going to pay for such work? For Windows it is obvious, there is a clear business case for Valve, Google, Nvidia, AMD and others to support Vulkan on Windows. But for Apple, the investment is similar, the return on investment much lower. The named companies might want Apple to contribute to it, before doing all the work for free.
Last edited by dmantione on 19 May 2016 at 11:18 am UTC
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Metal is likely one reason why Blizzard's new Overwatch game is Windows only. Older OpenGL and Metal likely doesn't have the features they want. Not having Vulkan could be a really bad decision for Apple.
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Will be Vulkan available for L4D2?
I don't think so as L4D2 itself is based on Source 1 while Dota 2 is on Source 2. If they were to move L4D2 to Source 2 (which there were leaks about this but I don't know if it will ever happen) then we should have it running on Vulkan.
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Metal is likely one reason why Blizzard's new Overwatch game is Windows only. Older OpenGL and Metal likely doesn't have the features they want. Not having Vulkan could be a really bad decision for Apple.
It might also kill Vulkan. Without Apple Vulkan only brings older Windows versions, Linux and Android. Older Windows versions is a shrinking market and Android is irrelevant for graphically intensive, AAA games. I am afraid that without Apple, Vulkan adoption will not be able to drive Linux gaming.
Instead of "Hey we are using Vulkan any way for Macs, we should do a Linux version" we might see: "We want our game on Linux, maybe we should support Vulkan".
The latter attitude will lead to fewer Linux games than the former, a greater proportion of which will use OpenGL or a DirectX -> OpenGL or DirectX -> Vulkan translation layer.
How can Vulkan lead to greater Linux adoption in the game industry without an independent reason to use Vulkan?
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Kuduzkehpan 19 May 2016
Valve just waited autodesk scaleform and other 3rd party partners to implement Uİ HUD codes to vulkan api. So its time! Valve will rulee again!
im a bit of Dota 2 fan
im a bit of Dota 2 fan
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natewardawg 19 May 2016
It might also kill Vulkan. Without Apple Vulkan only brings older Windows versions, Linux and Android. Older Windows versions is a shrinking market and Android is irrelevant for graphically intensive, AAA games. I am afraid that without Apple, Vulkan adoption will not be able to drive Linux gaming.
On the contrary, it might just kill Apple. Vulkan and DirectX 12 APIs are so close that graphics will be practically a cinch to port to Linux, but not Metal. Pretty much all AAA games are made for Windows and therefore will be much easier to port to Linux than Mac making return on investment possibly much higher on Linux even if the numbers are lower. This could make it far less likely to get Mac ports of games.
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Metal is likely one reason why Blizzard's new Overwatch game is Windows only. Older OpenGL and Metal likely doesn't have the features they want. Not having Vulkan could be a really bad decision for Apple.
It might also kill Vulkan. Without Apple Vulkan only brings older Windows versions, Linux and Android. Older Windows versions is a shrinking market and Android is irrelevant for graphically intensive, AAA games. I am afraid that without Apple, Vulkan adoption will not be able to drive Linux gaming.
Instead of "Hey we are using Vulkan any way for Macs, we should do a Linux version" we might see: "We want our game on Linux, maybe we should support Vulkan".
The latter attitude will lead to fewer Linux games than the former, a greater proportion of which will use OpenGL or a DirectX -> OpenGL or DirectX -> Vulkan translation layer.
How can Vulkan lead to greater Linux adoption in the game industry without an independent reason to use Vulkan?
Well, it is good API for starters, which applies some lessons learnt form DirectX12.
Second, it will take a few years before Windows 7 drops below MacOS market share. Not supporting Win7 looses you much more customers than you can gain on Mac/Linux.
Third, I think you are underestimating Android. Yes, many phones don't have the hardware to run graphically intense games. Do Macbooks with low-end Intel graphics have the hardware to run graphically intense games? Both Nvidia and Samsung have APUs that are relatively high-end and devices with those APUs will be able to benefit from Vulkan. Perhaps on phones, perhaps on bigger devices. The ability to rule PC and mobile with one codebase is a big benefit. FYI: The Talos Principle has an Android port.
Fourth: What you fear is not happening at all. Game engine developers are busy adding Vulkan, but not adding Metal. Big names in the games industry have pledged their support for Vulkan. Some, for example Croteam, have actively spoken out against supporting Metal. Conclusion: The decision against Mac has already been made by many developers.
But I agree would be best if Apple would jump into the Vulkan boat.
Last edited by dmantione on 19 May 2016 at 1:07 pm UTC
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Older Windows versions is a shrinking market
While it's surely shrinking, it's still half of the Windows users at Steam.
So you could use
* DirectX11 and publish your games for all Windows users,
* DirextX12 to reach half of the Winodws users,
* DirectX11 and DirextX12 and still reach all Windows users, but with more work,
* Vulkan to reach all Windows users (plus the small amount of Linux users with additional work).
I'm not betting on Vulkan, but this doesn't sound like a situation too bad for us.
Last edited by Eike on 19 May 2016 at 1:12 pm UTC
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It might also kill Vulkan. Without Apple Vulkan only brings older Windows versions, Linux and Android. Older Windows versions is a shrinking market and Android is irrelevant for graphically intensive, AAA games. I am afraid that without Apple, Vulkan adoption will not be able to drive Linux gaming.
On the contrary, it might just kill Apple. Vulkan and DirectX 12 APIs are so close that graphics will be practically a cinch to port to Linux, but not Metal. Pretty much all AAA games are made for Windows and therefore will be much easier to port to Linux than Mac making return on investment possibly much higher on Linux even if the numbers are lower. This could make it far less likely to get Mac ports of games.
Why would a development studio add Vulkan support to their game and/or engine if it already supports DX12 and they have zero intentions to support Linux? As far as I can tell they wouldn't tend to do so.
Now as others point out, yes older Windows versions provide a reason. But that reason will dissappear.
Android won't bring Vulkan support to the latest COD, Battlefield, GTA or Assassin's Creed games.
OpenGL had the same benefits as far as being cross platform goes, yet DirectX completely dominated.
In fact Vulkan is LESS cross platform than OpenGL, having lost Mac OSX, how can that do anything but hurt Vulkan?
Do you guys really see many games receiving Linux versions due to Vulkan, that wouldn't have otherwise?
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