Ars Technica has written up an article about Valve's Steam Machines and how they seem to have sold less than 500,000 units in around seven months.
Valve's recent announcement about how many Steam Controllers sold was stated at over 500,000 units, and Ars are claiming Valve has told them directly that includes units sold with a Steam Machine. I have no reason to question that Valve told Ars that, but the problem is the comparison used here. Ars are directly comparing a niche PC platform with behemoths like Microsoft's Xbox One and Sony's Playstation 4. Both of which had multiple previous generations with people already hooked into the platforms and both have massive advertising budgets. If you are going to compare it with those platforms, then yes, it will look bad. Steam Machines were not supposed to be console killers anyway, so I feel like this is comparing apples to oranges. It's meant to be an extension of the PC platform.
I'm going to be blunt here, who honestly thought they would sell like hot cakes? I didn't. I've said it time and time again that both SteamOS and Steam Machines were never going to be an overnight success and it will take a long time for them to gain any real traction.
Another problem is that the mainstream gaming press has almost never been fond of the idea anyway, and the amount of articles out looking down it probably wouldn't have helped things. Ars hasn't exactly been kind about it at all in previous articles. Hell, even certain Linux websites like to use sensationalist article titles talking down Linux popularity on Steam. When actually, it's doing pretty well all things considered.
I do fully agree with other things Ars and others say though. We are facing real issues, like a lack of bigger platform-pushing titles and performance. Valve do need to up their own advertising a bit too, not just of Steam Machines, but of new Linux releases. They give big homepage banners to plenty of new Windows releases, but only a few SteamOS releases have been graced with such advertising. Valve haven't even managed to get their own VR device with HTC on Linux yet, they need to up their own game.
No matter what, SteamOS and Steam Machines have boosted Linux gaming immeasurably and will continue to do so for quite some time. Thanks to games we already have and games we expect to see in future.
SteamOS hasn't had time to truly mature, Vulkan has only recently been released (which should help with the performance issues) and hardly any developers are using it yet.
It's still too early to consider it a failure. Valve are one company who can afford to take their time, and it seems they are. It hasn't even been a year yet.
Windows is still a threat to Valve, especially with Windows 10, the Windows Store and Microsoft's plans for it with the Universal Windows Platform. I don't see them dropping SteamOS any time soon. They lose nothing by supporting Linux, but have the possibility in future to gain a lot from it. It's like a security blanket for them. Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
Valve's recent announcement about how many Steam Controllers sold was stated at over 500,000 units, and Ars are claiming Valve has told them directly that includes units sold with a Steam Machine. I have no reason to question that Valve told Ars that, but the problem is the comparison used here. Ars are directly comparing a niche PC platform with behemoths like Microsoft's Xbox One and Sony's Playstation 4. Both of which had multiple previous generations with people already hooked into the platforms and both have massive advertising budgets. If you are going to compare it with those platforms, then yes, it will look bad. Steam Machines were not supposed to be console killers anyway, so I feel like this is comparing apples to oranges. It's meant to be an extension of the PC platform.
I'm going to be blunt here, who honestly thought they would sell like hot cakes? I didn't. I've said it time and time again that both SteamOS and Steam Machines were never going to be an overnight success and it will take a long time for them to gain any real traction.
Another problem is that the mainstream gaming press has almost never been fond of the idea anyway, and the amount of articles out looking down it probably wouldn't have helped things. Ars hasn't exactly been kind about it at all in previous articles. Hell, even certain Linux websites like to use sensationalist article titles talking down Linux popularity on Steam. When actually, it's doing pretty well all things considered.
I do fully agree with other things Ars and others say though. We are facing real issues, like a lack of bigger platform-pushing titles and performance. Valve do need to up their own advertising a bit too, not just of Steam Machines, but of new Linux releases. They give big homepage banners to plenty of new Windows releases, but only a few SteamOS releases have been graced with such advertising. Valve haven't even managed to get their own VR device with HTC on Linux yet, they need to up their own game.
No matter what, SteamOS and Steam Machines have boosted Linux gaming immeasurably and will continue to do so for quite some time. Thanks to games we already have and games we expect to see in future.
SteamOS hasn't had time to truly mature, Vulkan has only recently been released (which should help with the performance issues) and hardly any developers are using it yet.
It's still too early to consider it a failure. Valve are one company who can afford to take their time, and it seems they are. It hasn't even been a year yet.
Windows is still a threat to Valve, especially with Windows 10, the Windows Store and Microsoft's plans for it with the Universal Windows Platform. I don't see them dropping SteamOS any time soon. They lose nothing by supporting Linux, but have the possibility in future to gain a lot from it. It's like a security blanket for them. Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
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I wouldn't trust Ars as far as you could throw em, they are an "amusing" read at times, but nothing more than that. SteamOS is still a "beta" it's not a released product (the steam machines are basically the same thing and to sell 500,000 is great imo!). We are on "Valve Time" so this is more about the "long term" than the "short term" gains. It took them years to get to where Steam is now, It will probably take them even longer to push SteamOS and Steam Machines through to where they can actually compete with the PS4 and Xbox One, as was said they (MS/Sony) have 3>4 generations of system to have gained a market. People are looking at the first generation of Steam Machines, Has everyone got the VR headsets yet? nope, yet that is the "next" big thing, is everyone playing games at 4k on their Xboxs or PS4s? nope, both machines aren't even capable of pushing 1440p for the most part, hell they don't even do true FHD at 60fps most the time.
Wait until we see where thing's are going before you announce something as "dead". Linux was in most people's eyes (including the medias) "dead" for a long time, now it's on more devices than any other OS on the market. It took almost 30 years for that change to come about. Valve has had 3 years so far with SteamOS and pushing Linux, give them some time. The playstation has had 20 years, Xbox has had 15 years. Neither of those systems has managed to "take over" as it were and there are still plenty more "PCs" than there are either system.
Patience is a virtue, Valve as a company has more patience with anything they have released than any company in history, Steam has only been around for 12 years yet has changed the face of "gaming" in so many ways already. Digital Distribution (for games atleast) wasn't really a thing before Steam. Now it's everywhere.
Wait until we see where thing's are going before you announce something as "dead". Linux was in most people's eyes (including the medias) "dead" for a long time, now it's on more devices than any other OS on the market. It took almost 30 years for that change to come about. Valve has had 3 years so far with SteamOS and pushing Linux, give them some time. The playstation has had 20 years, Xbox has had 15 years. Neither of those systems has managed to "take over" as it were and there are still plenty more "PCs" than there are either system.
Patience is a virtue, Valve as a company has more patience with anything they have released than any company in history, Steam has only been around for 12 years yet has changed the face of "gaming" in so many ways already. Digital Distribution (for games atleast) wasn't really a thing before Steam. Now it's everywhere.
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If we were to believe every gaming website article talking doom and gloom then Nintendo would have gone out of business a thousand times over already. :P
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TheRiddick Jun 2, 2016
SteamOS is still not ready for mainstream consumption. Missing drivers, bad driver optimizations, library file issues, AMD is still largely missing for sysreq on software. And then there is the MAJOR AAA titles still not wanting to port to Linux (where is my Skyrim and Fallout4?).
Maybe some of those issues will be sorted out in the next 12 months I dunno. But Valve KNOWS what must be done to make it successful.
Maybe some of those issues will be sorted out in the next 12 months I dunno. But Valve KNOWS what must be done to make it successful.
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I like my Alienware Steam Machine, it sits under my TV and runs many native Linux games with the innovative controller just fine. I think one part of the problem is: if you load Windows 10 on it, blowing away SteamOS, for the casual gamer who doesn't care, everything is an upgrade. More games supported, especially in the AAA category - plus generally better game performance + less bugs in those AAA titles. And it also works for all your Windows only non-Steam game, etc.
Of course SteamOS does not compete toe-to-toe with Windows yet, Windows has decades head start. with every game and gaming hardware company devoting their best sustained efforts to 100% optimizing for Windows. Valve is huge, but not huge enough to equal that in just a few years time.
The key to SteamOS is wanting to support how far it's come in so short a time - which is nothing short of amazing compared to Linux pre-Valve days, as far as gaming goes - and wanting to support a more open OS platform in general.
Another problem when considering Steam Machines vs. consoles is unfortunately the Steam Controller itself and lack of associated "console polish". Yes, the Steam Controller is innovative. Yes, you can get used to it. But honestly, the PS4 Dual Shock 4 has better hand feel - the DS4 doesn't have the flexibility or the precision. But were console players wanting that? Nope, just PC gamers were. Hand feel and comfort are king in a controller for console players - and the DS4 *totally* has its sh** together and beats the Steam Controller here.
The Steam Controller does have overall very good ergonomics, but you're not going to have any kind of mass exodus of existing console players for them touchpads. They solve a problem no console players cared about and feel way less familiar/comfortable to them.
Lack of "console polish": for console players, this can be summed up as above argument about how Steam Controller is not an improvement over DS4 for a console player + lack of AAA games in general + lack of 100% of titles 100% working with the Steam Controller = lack of "console polish" by any metric they look at it. Oh, + lack of any of my friends are on it. I mentioned Steam Machines to a co-worker who was shopping for a console for his son, and it was a non-starter for him, because none of his son's friends were on it.
Of course SteamOS does not compete toe-to-toe with Windows yet, Windows has decades head start. with every game and gaming hardware company devoting their best sustained efforts to 100% optimizing for Windows. Valve is huge, but not huge enough to equal that in just a few years time.
The key to SteamOS is wanting to support how far it's come in so short a time - which is nothing short of amazing compared to Linux pre-Valve days, as far as gaming goes - and wanting to support a more open OS platform in general.
Another problem when considering Steam Machines vs. consoles is unfortunately the Steam Controller itself and lack of associated "console polish". Yes, the Steam Controller is innovative. Yes, you can get used to it. But honestly, the PS4 Dual Shock 4 has better hand feel - the DS4 doesn't have the flexibility or the precision. But were console players wanting that? Nope, just PC gamers were. Hand feel and comfort are king in a controller for console players - and the DS4 *totally* has its sh** together and beats the Steam Controller here.
The Steam Controller does have overall very good ergonomics, but you're not going to have any kind of mass exodus of existing console players for them touchpads. They solve a problem no console players cared about and feel way less familiar/comfortable to them.
Lack of "console polish": for console players, this can be summed up as above argument about how Steam Controller is not an improvement over DS4 for a console player + lack of AAA games in general + lack of 100% of titles 100% working with the Steam Controller = lack of "console polish" by any metric they look at it. Oh, + lack of any of my friends are on it. I mentioned Steam Machines to a co-worker who was shopping for a console for his son, and it was a non-starter for him, because none of his son's friends were on it.
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i can't believe how blind optimistic people are...
"SteamOS is still a "beta" it's not a released product "
the SteamOS is not an relased product but its embed at an relased product, i'm the only one who see an issue in sell an piece of hardware in which the OS embed to it is not ready for relase even 7 months after they start selling the hardware?
any consumer would go nuts with something like that.
(the steam machines are basically the same thing and to sell 500,000 is great imo!).
500,000 is the number of CONTROLLERS sold not the number of machines, read the news before comment on it.
"It took them years to get to where Steam is now"
yes, the issue is, people purchased pcs because they need/want browse the web, write documents, listen to music watch videos and play was an plus, and they could do those things regardless of the sucess or not of steam.
on consols on the other hand, people buy then to play and they are useless if they cant meet this, no one will buy an machine and wait years before it become usefull for anything, especially if they can just install windows on it to play more things with better performance as a lot of those people are doing.
"It will probably take them even longer to push SteamOS and Steam Machines through to where they can actually compete with the PS4 and Xbox One"
except that we would be at PS5 or PS6 by then...
"as was said they (MS/Sony) have 3>4 generations of system to have gained a market"
PS1 sold 100M units at the end of its generation, it won the consol market at its first gen, the first xbox sold 24M at the end of its gen, and at 7 months after relase im pretty sure it had sold more than 500K units. (that being optmistic assuming all 500K controlers are bundled with Steam Machines)
"Has everyone got the VR headsets yet?"
we dont know if VR will be a thing at all.
" is everyone playing games at 4k on their Xboxs or PS4s? "
XboxOne and PS4 cant do 4K that is why they will relase PS4 Neo and another XboxOne, every gamer know they will relase this, except if they are living in a cave on the last 2 months because the media cant shut up and talk about something else.
and Steam machines that arent tied to this generation count didnt drop the price yet, PS4 and XboxOne did.
"SteamOS is still a "beta" it's not a released product "
the SteamOS is not an relased product but its embed at an relased product, i'm the only one who see an issue in sell an piece of hardware in which the OS embed to it is not ready for relase even 7 months after they start selling the hardware?
any consumer would go nuts with something like that.
(the steam machines are basically the same thing and to sell 500,000 is great imo!).
500,000 is the number of CONTROLLERS sold not the number of machines, read the news before comment on it.
"It took them years to get to where Steam is now"
yes, the issue is, people purchased pcs because they need/want browse the web, write documents, listen to music watch videos and play was an plus, and they could do those things regardless of the sucess or not of steam.
on consols on the other hand, people buy then to play and they are useless if they cant meet this, no one will buy an machine and wait years before it become usefull for anything, especially if they can just install windows on it to play more things with better performance as a lot of those people are doing.
"It will probably take them even longer to push SteamOS and Steam Machines through to where they can actually compete with the PS4 and Xbox One"
except that we would be at PS5 or PS6 by then...
"as was said they (MS/Sony) have 3>4 generations of system to have gained a market"
PS1 sold 100M units at the end of its generation, it won the consol market at its first gen, the first xbox sold 24M at the end of its gen, and at 7 months after relase im pretty sure it had sold more than 500K units. (that being optmistic assuming all 500K controlers are bundled with Steam Machines)
"Has everyone got the VR headsets yet?"
we dont know if VR will be a thing at all.
" is everyone playing games at 4k on their Xboxs or PS4s? "
XboxOne and PS4 cant do 4K that is why they will relase PS4 Neo and another XboxOne, every gamer know they will relase this, except if they are living in a cave on the last 2 months because the media cant shut up and talk about something else.
and Steam machines that arent tied to this generation count didnt drop the price yet, PS4 and XboxOne did.
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Jun 3, 2016
Quoting: TheRiddickSteamOS is still not ready for mainstream consumption. Missing drivers, bad driver optimizations, library file issues, AMD is still largely missing for sysreq on software. And then there is the MAJOR AAA titles still not wanting to port to Linux (where is my Skyrim and Fallout4?).
Maybe some of those issues will be sorted out in the next 12 months I dunno. But Valve KNOWS what must be done to make it successful.
Indeed lot of issue, should be solved when game developer use of current gen of graphic API become generalized. Currently the only Vulkan based game I know are Ashes of the Singularity (it supposed to get ported to Linux) and DOTA2 (which is currently in a beta release for the Vulkan port).
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What concerns me isn't the fact that the sales are bad, what concerns me is that Valve is very quite about it. There is not even a word from them on whether they are still committed to SteamOS.
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Quoting: elmapul"SteamOS is still a "beta" it's not a released product "
the SteamOS is not an relased product but its embed at an relased product, i'm the only one who see an issue in sell an piece of hardware in which the OS embed to it is not ready for relase even 7 months after they start selling the hardware?
any consumer would go nuts with something like that.
"as was said they (MS/Sony) have 3>4 generations of system to have gained a market"
PS1 sold 100M units at the end of its generation, it won the consol market at its first gen, the first xbox sold 24M at the end of its gen, and at 7 months after relase im pretty sure it had sold more than 500K units. (that being optmistic assuming all 500K controlers are bundled with Steam Machines)
True and true.
Beta: SteamOS hit the big time with official roll out on retail console form factor PCs, AND - the version number itself is at "2.0" Brewmaster: the time to call it beta is past, IMO.
1st gen adoption slowness: Yep. The problems with slow adoption cannot fully be placed on Gen 1 factors. Any console gen 1 rollout has that challenge - even the gen 1 rollouts that were runaway hits. It's the other factors surrounding that gen 1 rollout that will make or break it as a new platform. Which I talked a little about in a previous post, and many others have already in this thread.
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Quoting: iniudanQuoting: TheRiddickSteamOS is still not ready for mainstream consumption. Missing drivers, bad driver optimizations, library file issues, AMD is still largely missing for sysreq on software. And then there is the MAJOR AAA titles still not wanting to port to Linux (where is my Skyrim and Fallout4?).
Maybe some of those issues will be sorted out in the next 12 months I dunno. But Valve KNOWS what must be done to make it successful.
Indeed lot of issue, should be solved when game developer use of current gen of graphic API become generalized. Currently the only Vulkan based game I know are Ashes of the Singularity (it supposed to get ported to Linux) and DOTA2 (which is currently in a beta release for the Vulkan port).
the is the talos principle too
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Quoting: HalifaxLack of "console polish": for console players, this can be summed up as above argument about how Steam Controller is not an improvement over DS4 for a console player + lack of AAA games in general + lack of 100% of titles 100% working with the Steam Controller = lack of "console polish" by any metric they look at it.
One of many examples: Euro Truck Simulator 2. On a clean install of SteamOS, the official ETS2 Steam Controller binding just doesn't work. It's broken. A partial mix of mouse+KB and gamepad mappings for gamepad analog triggers and left joystick. The mouse+KB mappings work, but not the gamepad mappings.
You're boned trying to play this on as-intended BPM only SteamOS with only a Steam Controller. Just won't work unless you do a lot of futzing around in both the BPM Controller Configuration + in-game Settings menus to find something that works for you that doesn't include any gamepad control inputs.
Which for any comparison to any of the big consoles would constitute: go f*** yourself game dev - fix your game or it doesn't go on our console. Valve's like pff, f*** it, post it, who cares - we'll list it as a SteamOS compatible game. Optionally fix it if/when you get to it, game dev.
A *severe* lack of polish vs. what is expected of a console system these days. Many games are a hit - but also a lot of games are serious misses that simply would never happen on other consoles.
Last edited by Halifax on 3 June 2016 at 2:53 am UTC
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