The latest Steam Hardware Survey is now available and if you take it at face value it doesn't look so good for Linux. I am remaining positive as always about it. I'm not going to give it some sensationalist headline about it being terrible or anything like that, I will simply give you some thoughts on it.
First up, the facts:
Linux is currently at 0.84%, which doesn't sound like a lot and there is a drop over last months 0.90%.
Now, onto some thoughts:
The key thing to remember is Steam overall is always growing, so a lower overall percentage of Linux users doesn't necessarily mean there are less Linux users on Steam (it could actually be more, but dwarfed by also having even more Windows users on Steam). An older article from Cheese states this:
Before reading this next part, I should remind you this is an editorial. These are my personal thoughts on it and I could be wrong. I accept that, but I think it's interesting anyway.
You can make it appear by simply having different hardware or a different operating system. It seems to detect when you change things, as if it knows it needs to check on you again. This is by design of course, as the entire point of it is to show what people are currently using, so if you've changed something it wants to know about it and send it along. This is one reason why people keep saying they see it when they boot into Windows after not using it for a while, of course you will, that's a change in your setup. This is another reason why I dislike it, as that can create an unintentional bias in the results. This bias isn't against Linux though, as it would work the same the opposite way around of course. This is why I feel the results were actually a lot higher for Linux initially, as it did a survey for a big bunch of Windows/Mac users trying it and submitting it on Linux before moving back to Windows/Mac.
A good bit of reading was a recent editorial titled "A different approach to calculating the popularity of Linux gaming on Steam" which will help put your mind at ease.
I would also like to point out that I personally feel things are still looking good, as I wrote in a recent editorial.
Also remember, we have our own statistics page which is currently in BETA. Would love more feedback on that, seems people like it so far! Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
First up, the facts:
Linux is currently at 0.84%, which doesn't sound like a lot and there is a drop over last months 0.90%.
Now, onto some thoughts:
The key thing to remember is Steam overall is always growing, so a lower overall percentage of Linux users doesn't necessarily mean there are less Linux users on Steam (it could actually be more, but dwarfed by also having even more Windows users on Steam). An older article from Cheese states this:
QuoteFirst up, it can be easy to miss that percentages are ratios. When looking at changes over time, an increase or decrease in percentages doesn't necessarily mean that there is a corresponding increase or decrease in the population represented by that percentage.
Before reading this next part, I should remind you this is an editorial. These are my personal thoughts on it and I could be wrong. I accept that, but I think it's interesting anyway.
You can make it appear by simply having different hardware or a different operating system. It seems to detect when you change things, as if it knows it needs to check on you again. This is by design of course, as the entire point of it is to show what people are currently using, so if you've changed something it wants to know about it and send it along. This is one reason why people keep saying they see it when they boot into Windows after not using it for a while, of course you will, that's a change in your setup. This is another reason why I dislike it, as that can create an unintentional bias in the results. This bias isn't against Linux though, as it would work the same the opposite way around of course. This is why I feel the results were actually a lot higher for Linux initially, as it did a survey for a big bunch of Windows/Mac users trying it and submitting it on Linux before moving back to Windows/Mac.
A good bit of reading was a recent editorial titled "A different approach to calculating the popularity of Linux gaming on Steam" which will help put your mind at ease.
I would also like to point out that I personally feel things are still looking good, as I wrote in a recent editorial.
Also remember, we have our own statistics page which is currently in BETA. Would love more feedback on that, seems people like it so far! Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
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lucifertdark Jun 2, 2016
No survey here & I have steam running every day, if they set it to pop up to every single user all at once instead of this haphazard way they do it now it might give us an accurate number, until they do this survey means absolutely nothing.
2 Likes, Who?
Blauer_Hunger Jun 2, 2016
Yesterday, I was asked to participate in the Steam hwsurvey in my Windows Gaming VM (with QEMU/KVM and GTX 970 passthrough). They asked my only once for the hwsurvey on Linux for the whole time I use Steam. But if I boot up some of the old Windows partitions I haven't used for many months and launch steam, they ask me almost immediatly wheather I want to participate.
Like many other users, I think they are trying to push the Windows-percentages for whatever reason. Maybe they prepare the statistics for a boost as large as possible when the Steam Machines are brought to the masses.
Like many other users, I think they are trying to push the Windows-percentages for whatever reason. Maybe they prepare the statistics for a boost as large as possible when the Steam Machines are brought to the masses.
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There will probably be changes to this in valve time.
I dont really think this steam hardware is legit way to see linux user base.
I hardly use steam anymore.
Also steam dosnt track steam os users, and if they arent counted in with the linux user base,
do steam even count arch, fedora, opensuse and so on?
I know they count Linux users.
Last time I got a survay was almost a year ago.
And Iv been swaping os sence then.
Last edited by Zelox on 2 June 2016 at 8:49 am UTC
I dont really think this steam hardware is legit way to see linux user base.
I hardly use steam anymore.
Also steam dosnt track steam os users, and if they arent counted in with the linux user base,
do steam even count arch, fedora, opensuse and so on?
I know they count Linux users.
Last time I got a survay was almost a year ago.
And Iv been swaping os sence then.
Last edited by Zelox on 2 June 2016 at 8:49 am UTC
1 Likes, Who?
I got the survey yesterday without changing so much as a cable on my machine.
Let's be even more honest and say that there will never be any reason for the average Windows user to install a different OS on their computer unless this new system provides a better - better - gaming platform than Windows. Equally good doesn't even cut it, it needs to be better. That's the problem.
Until we get better than Windows, we should hold the Mac share of 7-8% (isn't it?) as the big, shiny long term goal.
And to get there, a few things needs to be in place:
SteamOS. It needs to get out of beta and be production ready. They can't launch anything without that being in place. This is why the "Steambox launch" was so haf-assed last year: It's just not ready for it yet and Valve know it. So do the manufacturers.
With SteamOS on Steamboxes we may get a good handful of new users on our OS. Users that don't really care what's inside the box, they see the Steam logo and (hopefully) want one. That's easier than swaying Windows users over to Linux.
Virtual Reality: You can't offer a gaming platform without VR, not today, not now. Things may change in the longer run but for the next couple of years VR will be what people talk about. It's a requirement.
The games: When the above is in place the marketing can begin and the games will follow quickly. Remember how many devs who immediately jumped onto the wagon with a promised Linux version back when Valve talked about Steam Machines? The games will come.
But without the above we will continue hovering around the 1% and totally depend on the grace from Aspyr and a few others to bring over a selected few of the big titles to Linux.
That's the honest truth in this, as far as I can tell. And I don't see this as grounds for being totally chill and calm. It's no safe run, this. Not at this stage.
Last edited by Beamboom on 2 June 2016 at 9:12 am UTC
Right now, lets be honest and say there's no reason for the average Windows user to switch to Linux.
Let's be even more honest and say that there will never be any reason for the average Windows user to install a different OS on their computer unless this new system provides a better - better - gaming platform than Windows. Equally good doesn't even cut it, it needs to be better. That's the problem.
Until we get better than Windows, we should hold the Mac share of 7-8% (isn't it?) as the big, shiny long term goal.
And to get there, a few things needs to be in place:
SteamOS. It needs to get out of beta and be production ready. They can't launch anything without that being in place. This is why the "Steambox launch" was so haf-assed last year: It's just not ready for it yet and Valve know it. So do the manufacturers.
With SteamOS on Steamboxes we may get a good handful of new users on our OS. Users that don't really care what's inside the box, they see the Steam logo and (hopefully) want one. That's easier than swaying Windows users over to Linux.
Virtual Reality: You can't offer a gaming platform without VR, not today, not now. Things may change in the longer run but for the next couple of years VR will be what people talk about. It's a requirement.
The games: When the above is in place the marketing can begin and the games will follow quickly. Remember how many devs who immediately jumped onto the wagon with a promised Linux version back when Valve talked about Steam Machines? The games will come.
But without the above we will continue hovering around the 1% and totally depend on the grace from Aspyr and a few others to bring over a selected few of the big titles to Linux.
That's the honest truth in this, as far as I can tell. And I don't see this as grounds for being totally chill and calm. It's no safe run, this. Not at this stage.
Last edited by Beamboom on 2 June 2016 at 9:12 am UTC
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What I do not understand:
- Why this survey? Steam knows exactly when I play what I play and under what system I play, even if I'm using wine they can guess it.
- If there are really so few Linux gamers, why so many games are ported?
- The survey makes Linux look bad and thus harm Valves own interests. Why the are doing this?
- Why this survey? Steam knows exactly when I play what I play and under what system I play, even if I'm using wine they can guess it.
- If there are really so few Linux gamers, why so many games are ported?
- The survey makes Linux look bad and thus harm Valves own interests. Why the are doing this?
1 Likes, Who?
I wont be sending the survey when it pops up, but im installing windows for the first time in almost 10 years just for the vive...
:((
This sucks, and i will remove it as soon as i can, but...
:((
This sucks, and i will remove it as soon as i can, but...
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What to expect? "Ports" are bad, Steam client is bad, game developers are not fixing Linux related bugs, same as Valve developers, look at Valve github Issues, nothing important is getting fixed, I really dont understand your optimism guys. Some games mentioned by others have Denuvo protection, does it work on Linux?
And do you count multi-accounts in your statistical hacking? I have like 5-6 accounts with games, after removing Steam from Linux they are not very active, but I can bet that increase in Steam active/inactive user base is because of smurf accounts, trading accounts, bot accounts, new accounts after ban-waves etc. and almost all of them are on Windows.
And do you count multi-accounts in your statistical hacking? I have like 5-6 accounts with games, after removing Steam from Linux they are not very active, but I can bet that increase in Steam active/inactive user base is because of smurf accounts, trading accounts, bot accounts, new accounts after ban-waves etc. and almost all of them are on Windows.
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Kuduzkehpan Jun 2, 2016
i dont remember when i got steam survey in linux last time. so every steam usage bla bla statistics welcomes as -1 in numbers to me.
and this survey should be an option in steam clients as ip restricted. so we can do it every month periodically. or valve stop bullshitting with this false survey. Do u really have to see how much linux gaming growth in numbers for a months or so ?
JUST BRİNG TOP TİER GAMES ON LİNUX. just like WOW LoL GW2 EVE GTA COD series. Look Android Linux.
its only 9 years old mobile system and has tons of games apps. cause it has good community and support. Go have a deal with GOOGLE and other "Developers" Give them vulkan edicatuons tutorials and any kind of support about making games which can easly run under Linux Steam OS Ubuntu or so.
So Make game developping and playing under Linux, interesting and Charming rather than waiting Linux gaming getting charming and interesting by self growing user populations. and so far cash monsters to come in playground just like EA UBİSOFT BLİZZARD. This wont never be in this way.
and this survey should be an option in steam clients as ip restricted. so we can do it every month periodically. or valve stop bullshitting with this false survey. Do u really have to see how much linux gaming growth in numbers for a months or so ?
JUST BRİNG TOP TİER GAMES ON LİNUX. just like WOW LoL GW2 EVE GTA COD series. Look Android Linux.
its only 9 years old mobile system and has tons of games apps. cause it has good community and support. Go have a deal with GOOGLE and other "Developers" Give them vulkan edicatuons tutorials and any kind of support about making games which can easly run under Linux Steam OS Ubuntu or so.
So Make game developping and playing under Linux, interesting and Charming rather than waiting Linux gaming getting charming and interesting by self growing user populations. and so far cash monsters to come in playground just like EA UBİSOFT BLİZZARD. This wont never be in this way.
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Just got the Hardware Survey!
...
On my laptop. Which is an ancient Core 2 Duo.
WELL NOW WE LOOK LIKE CHUMPS.
...
On my laptop. Which is an ancient Core 2 Duo.
WELL NOW WE LOOK LIKE CHUMPS.
1 Likes, Who?
What to expect? "Ports" are bad, Steam client is bad, game developers are not fixing Linux related bugs, same as Valve developers, look at Valve github Issues, nothing important is getting fixed, I really dont understand your optimism guys. Some games mentioned by others have Denuvo protection, does it work on Linux?
There are much more ports than I'll ever be able to play. Even worse ports as like Shadow of Mordor are adequately implemented. I've not played for almost 15 years, cause I only use Linux since that time. A year ago I then started again and I'm really amazed. Yesterday I bought The Witcher2 for $2,99 on GOG. WOW!
I only have seen a few statistics about the sales revenue, but whenever something was published the Linux revenue was often significantly better than indicated by the total number of Linux players. Maybe because Linux players do not already have the Witcher2. ;)
Especially giant publisher like SEGA or Warner bring titles out for Linux. Why do they do if they pay more?
Ultimately I do not care. The Steam Controller is nice and works perfectly with many games on my large screen TV. Whenever I want, I can go back to my mouse, keyboard and monitor setup. I do not need Windows, consoles or something else. Games that do not run under Linux, I just do not play. There are 10 times more games for Linux now than I'll ever be able to play. That's the whole point.
Valve and the publishers I only can thank, because they spend so much money for us and port all these games for God's reward. ;)
Last edited by 0aTT on 2 June 2016 at 12:12 pm UTC
2 Likes, Who?
Like many others, I am also only seeing surveys regularly the odd times I use Windows, whereas on my 4 Linux machines that I use all the time I almost never see a Steam survey. I assume, as somebody else mentioned this is a corporate decision by Valve, as it has been going on since the Steam-for-Linux service was launched. If it is for some marketing reasons, then I think it is rather disrespectful of their Linux users.
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autonomouse Jun 2, 2016
According to a chart in the comments section in Phoronix (https://www.phoronix.com/forums/forum/phoronix/latest-phoronix-articles/875653-valve-s-steam-survey-shows-linux-gaming-fall-to-one-of-the-lowest-levels-ever/page5) in February 2013, when our market share was ~2%, there were 7million active Steam users. Now, when we're at 0.84%, there are an estimated 18.5million users.
If those numbers are correct - and I haven't checked them, so please find an original source before anybody quotes this - then in 2013 there were 140,000 linux users and now there are 155,400 users.
So the userbase has gone up (by 15,400 users!), but it just hasn't kept in line with the number of Windows users, hence the lower percentage.
(7,000,000/100%) * 2.0% = 140,000
(18,500,000/100%) * 0.84% = 155,400
I haven't the time now to dig around to find out if those figures for the total concurrent number of steam users are correct, but even if they're not, please do remember that this is all relative (as is mentioned in the article).
Actually, maybe in future when referring to the steam survey, the headlines should quote the number of users, calculated in this way, rather then the percentage?
If those numbers are correct - and I haven't checked them, so please find an original source before anybody quotes this - then in 2013 there were 140,000 linux users and now there are 155,400 users.
So the userbase has gone up (by 15,400 users!), but it just hasn't kept in line with the number of Windows users, hence the lower percentage.
(7,000,000/100%) * 2.0% = 140,000
(18,500,000/100%) * 0.84% = 155,400
I haven't the time now to dig around to find out if those figures for the total concurrent number of steam users are correct, but even if they're not, please do remember that this is all relative (as is mentioned in the article).
Actually, maybe in future when referring to the steam survey, the headlines should quote the number of users, calculated in this way, rather then the percentage?
1 Likes, Who?
Mountain Man Jun 2, 2016
I think people should stop paying attention to this survey. It's not representative of the whole picture even for Steam itself.I agree, the results are very misleading. Unfortunately, a lot of people do pay attention to it, including developers who sometimes cite the survey results as a reason to not support Linux.
I wish Valve would release their internal statistics some time because you know they have an exact count of how many people are using which operating system and how many people are dual booting (a practice I gave up months ago).
3 Likes, Who?
Mountain Man Jun 2, 2016
According to a chart in the comments section in Phoronix (https://www.phoronix.com/forums/forum/phoronix/latest-phoronix-articles/875653-valve-s-steam-survey-shows-linux-gaming-fall-to-one-of-the-lowest-levels-ever/page5) in February 2013, when our market share was ~2%, there were 7million active Steam users. Now, when we're at 0.84%, there are an estimated 18.5million users.Your math isn't quite right. That should be 1,400,000 and 1,554,000, so the increase in Linux users was over 150,000, so even as flawed as the survey is, it's still showing steady growth for Linux.
If those numbers are correct - and I haven't checked them, so please find an original source before anybody quotes this - then in 2013 there were 140,000 linux users and now there are 155,400 users.
So the userbase has gone up (by 15,400 users!), but it just hasn't kept in line with the number of Windows users, hence the lower percentage.
(7,000,000/100%) * 2.0% = 140,000
(18,500,000/100%) * 0.84% = 155,400
I haven't the time now to dig around to find out if those figures for the total concurrent number of steam users are correct, but even if they're not, please do remember that this is all relative (as is mentioned in the article).
Actually, maybe in future when referring to the steam survey, the headlines should quote the number of users, calculated in this way, rather then the percentage?
Last edited by Mountain Man on 2 June 2016 at 3:49 pm UTC
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autonomouse Jun 2, 2016
Your math isn't quite right. That should be 1,400,000 and 1,554,000, so the increase in Linux users was over 150,000, so even as flawed as the survey is, it's still showing steady growth for Linux.
Maths isn't exactly my thing, but unfortunately I think I'm right on this one: your figures would mean that 1.4 million is 2% of 7 million. 1,400,000 would be more like 14%.
Bear in mind that this is referring to the number of concurrent users on steam - not the number of accounts. I probably should have made that clearer. I'll have a look around for an original source for the total number of Steam users, and that will give us our true number of linux users, which may well be > 1 million.
I don't know if anyone trusts those though, as the accounts may be inactive, or one person may have set up several accoutns, or whatever.
1 Likes, Who?
Mountain Man Jun 2, 2016
Oops... you're right. I multiplied the percentages by a factor of 10.
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I dunno. No matter the this and the that and the overall growth of Steam and the survey methodology and so on, the trend has not been great lately.
I mean, we don't know for sure but I would tend to assume that however the dang survey works, it hasn't been changing over time to be progressively worse for Linux. So even if our numbers should be higher overall, a drop is a drop. And OK, maybe Steam is growing, but a drop still means if Steam is growing, we're not.
We need the Steam Machine to do well, and we need it bad. Crossing my fingers for a renewed launch with better features this Christmas.
Thing is, I really don't understand why Linux should be dropping as a proportion of PC desktops (which is the vague implication I get from the gradual drop of Linux on the Steam survey--I realize there's a lot of caveats between the one thing and the other, but all else equal that's what you'd expect that to mean). I mean, in terms of how usable and likeable the Linux desktop and general software ecosystem (including games) is compared to Windows, we're in about the best shape we've ever been except possibly for a brief moment when everyone was ragging on Vista. And we didn't have games then. Nobody's marketing Linux on the desktop, sure, but nobody ever really was. Linux off the desktop--everywhere else in computing from tiny to huge--just keeps going from strength to 500-lb-gorilla dominance.
So what's the deal?
Last edited by Purple Library Guy on 2 June 2016 at 6:28 pm UTC
I mean, we don't know for sure but I would tend to assume that however the dang survey works, it hasn't been changing over time to be progressively worse for Linux. So even if our numbers should be higher overall, a drop is a drop. And OK, maybe Steam is growing, but a drop still means if Steam is growing, we're not.
We need the Steam Machine to do well, and we need it bad. Crossing my fingers for a renewed launch with better features this Christmas.
Thing is, I really don't understand why Linux should be dropping as a proportion of PC desktops (which is the vague implication I get from the gradual drop of Linux on the Steam survey--I realize there's a lot of caveats between the one thing and the other, but all else equal that's what you'd expect that to mean). I mean, in terms of how usable and likeable the Linux desktop and general software ecosystem (including games) is compared to Windows, we're in about the best shape we've ever been except possibly for a brief moment when everyone was ragging on Vista. And we didn't have games then. Nobody's marketing Linux on the desktop, sure, but nobody ever really was. Linux off the desktop--everywhere else in computing from tiny to huge--just keeps going from strength to 500-lb-gorilla dominance.
So what's the deal?
Last edited by Purple Library Guy on 2 June 2016 at 6:28 pm UTC
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Perkeleen_Vittupää Jun 2, 2016
So even The Linux Gamer hadn't gotten the survey for YEARS!? There's something very peculiar about this damn survey without a question.
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