Thanks to PC Gamer we have been pointed to an interview that Tim Sweeney the founder of Epic Games did, and he's blasting Microsoft yet again.
What I do have issues with here, is that yet again a major developer is basically saying a PC is Windows (bold emphasis mine):
No, there is far more to the PC than Windows. I really wish developers would stop this ridiculous merging of the PC platform with Windows the operating system.
I don't honestly think Microsoft could ever stop Steam working, without Valve doing some kind of major lawsuit, but Mr Sweeney stated it has happened before:
Also, for the amount of complaints Mr Sweeney has, maybe it's time for him to be productive about it and start moving his company towards an open platform. Anyone know an open platform? Lin-something? Oh yes, Linux, that's it. Linux gives you SteamOS too remember now.
Only Unreal Tournament (the new one) looks like it will have Epic's support and possibly not even officially. The Linux version has been seriously lagging behind the Windows version, repeatedly breaking with major graphical issues and it still has no launcher on Linux. It may still be early, but they don't seem like they're really putting any effort into it. Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
What I do have issues with here, is that yet again a major developer is basically saying a PC is Windows (bold emphasis mine):
QuoteThe risk here is that, if Microsoft convinces everybody to use UWP, then they phase out Win32 apps. If they can succeed in doing that then it’s a small leap to forcing all apps and games to be distributed through the Windows Store. Once we reach that point, the PC has become a closed platform.
No, there is far more to the PC than Windows. I really wish developers would stop this ridiculous merging of the PC platform with Windows the operating system.
I don't honestly think Microsoft could ever stop Steam working, without Valve doing some kind of major lawsuit, but Mr Sweeney stated it has happened before:
QuoteSlowly, over the next five years, they will force-patch Windows 10 to make Steam progressively worse and more broken. They’ll never completely break it, but will continue to break it until, in five years, people are so fed up that Steam is buggy that the Windows Store seems like an ideal alternative. That’s exactly what they did to their previous competitors in other areas. Now they’re doing it to Steam. It’s only just starting to become visible. Microsoft might not be competent enough to succeed with their plan, but they’re certainly trying.
Also, for the amount of complaints Mr Sweeney has, maybe it's time for him to be productive about it and start moving his company towards an open platform. Anyone know an open platform? Lin-something? Oh yes, Linux, that's it. Linux gives you SteamOS too remember now.
Only Unreal Tournament (the new one) looks like it will have Epic's support and possibly not even officially. The Linux version has been seriously lagging behind the Windows version, repeatedly breaking with major graphical issues and it still has no launcher on Linux. It may still be early, but they don't seem like they're really putting any effort into it. Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
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Quoting: Mountain ManQuoting: neowiz73I blame the Mac vs PC commercials for starting the paradigm of calling all windows based systems "PCs".It started long before that. "PC" has always been synonymous with Microsoft in one way or another for decades.
not as much, because before the commercials mainly I remember Windows PCs being thing, because Macs were being sold in stores and were referred to Mac PCs vs Windows PCs. But Steve Jobs wanted to make a distinct difference between the two with the commercials by simply stating Macs were *Macs* and Windows PCs were just PCs.
Last edited by neowiz73 on 26 July 2016 at 8:36 pm UTC
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Quoting: wvstolzingSo they'll inject bugs into the Steam client, which will not only deter people from buying games on the Steam storefront, but also make the individual games they've bought over Steam perform worse?
No, I think what he is trying to say is that Windows will make several quiet changes over time, that are never documented, to the underlying Windows libraries that Steam has to link into for things. Like how Steam has to create a process for launching as well as interaction with the file system and updating registry keys.
For instance there might be more bug reports like this:
http://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/10/558750544052889885/
Spoiler, click me
I believe I may have found a "bug" in the Steam Client. Deleting game content doesn't activate Windows' uninstall of that game. I presume it just, you know, deletes the game's content. The issue is that there is a registry key, InstallLocation in LocalMachine\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Uninstall\Steam App 244210 (Assetto Corsa in my case) which remains after Steam has deleted the game files.
Reinstalling the game through steam does _not_ update this key.
If you delete the game content, that registry key remains. Then if you reinstall the game AND CHANGE THE LOCATION OF THE INSTALL, the game gets installed and that key is not updated.
I don't even know if you'd consider this a bug but since I came across it, I figured I might as well report it.
Something like that would be like the strategy that Microsoft has long employed with the OOXML document format they use for microsoft office. Even though Microsoft advertises its OOXML format as an "open" standard they make a lot of undetectable tweaks to their implementation of it so that other office software like libreoffice can't become completely compliant with the format. Hence why many documents made in Microsoft Office will likely never render correctly in libreoffice.
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People will stop using the term "PC" to mean "Windows", as soon as people stop using the term "Linux" to mean "GNU/Linux".
I still say Linux, so it might take a while.
I still say Linux, so it might take a while.
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wvstolzing Jul 26, 2016
Quoting: MadeanaccounttocommentQuoting: wvstolzingSo they'll inject bugs into the Steam client, which will not only deter people from buying games on the Steam storefront, but also make the individual games they've bought over Steam perform worse?
No, I think what he is trying to say is that Windows will make several quiet changes over time, that are never documented, to the underlying Windows libraries that Steam has to link into for things.
Still, that would be sabotaging just the client. As long as they don't turn windows into a complete black box, Valve could work around such nuisances.
The biggest threat would be a ban on all non-M$-store binaries on windows; though that doesn't seem likely.
A really dirty trick M$ could play, though, would be to limit the use of DX12 only on UWP (or whatever it's called) applications. In that case, M$ wouldn't even have to bother sabotaging Valve; since Steam would thus be rendered irrelevant for new games, as long as those don't use Vulkan, of course.
Last edited by wvstolzing on 26 July 2016 at 9:35 pm UTC
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But, but there's a strong alternative with wide hardware support, big community, and lots of developers and publishers behind it! You joking Mr. Sweeney this isn't happening!
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Quoting: neowiz73I blame the Mac vs PC commercials for starting the paradigm of calling all windows based systems "PCs".Probably intentional. Apple want to take market share from Microsoft, but they'd certainly prefer to do that while not giving any to Linux. Characterizing things in that very binary way where PC hardware appears to == MS in the same way that Mac hardware really does == Mac OS (almost) helps them freeze Linux out.
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Well, on the plus side, if Mr. Sweeney is right, I expect the Valve people will at some point notice it. And if Gabe and the Valve people conclude MS is back to trying to screw with them, we can anticipate SteamOS and the Steam Machine to be on the front burner again.
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Quoting: liamdaweAlso Microsoft does not own the hardware platform, which means they have no way of closing it down. They might try if they're ever desperate enough, but that'll fail miserably. Not that their current antics with W10 don't reek of desperation already.Quoting: dmantioneIn this case the use of "PC" can be seen as correct: If Microsoft succeeds to close the software part of PC's, why keep the hardware open so people can escape to Linux? Microsoft ARM based hardware is already closed.No, he's specifically talking about Windows and Microsoft possibly forcing people to use the Windows store. It is not PC, it is Windows.
Quoting: neowiz73MS has been trying so hard to be like Apple over the past 10 years. Why?, because Apple makes more money than MS, despite being a closed system end to end.These numbers have very little to do with the relevant market segment, which is desktop/gaming computers. This is where Windows still dominates, and Mac shows no indication of becoming a real threat.
Last edited by tuubi on 26 July 2016 at 11:33 pm UTC
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Quoting: tuubiQuoting: liamdaweAlso Microsoft does not own the hardware platform, which means they have no way of closing it down. They might try if they're ever desperate enough, but that'll fail miserably. Not that their current antics with W10 don't reek of desperation already.Quoting: dmantioneIn this case the use of "PC" can be seen as correct: If Microsoft succeeds to close the software part of PC's, why keep the hardware open so people can escape to Linux? Microsoft ARM based hardware is already closed.No, he's specifically talking about Windows and Microsoft possibly forcing people to use the Windows store. It is not PC, it is Windows.
In theory they don't, in practice they do dictate policy. You remember that whole UEFI thing back when windows 8 was released. Only because the EU intervened did Microsoft amend their required implementation guide to include a section about being able to disable the secure boot functionality on x86 systems.
Nothing would stop manufactures from adding this feature on their own, but many only do the base requirements and then add RGB leds in motherboard.
You can see this effect with the secure boot keys. How many do you think have the Red Hat boot key by default, and how many have the Microsoft boot key?
If they want to really break things they only need to require secure boot be enabled for the windows store to work, then rotate the windows secure boot key, one that they haven't used to sign the Linux binaries (Yes, Microsoft are signing Linux/Grub binaries so they work on our "open hardware") and remove the ability to use non store programs.
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Hey, I love Linux as much as anyone, and would love to see Linux take over the home PC market.
But also, you gotta give Windows credit where it's due.
http://forwardthinking.pcmag.com/software/286148-the-rise-of-dos-how-microsoft-got-the-ibm-pc-os-contract.
http%3A%2F%2Fforwardthinking.pcmag.com%2Fsoftware%2F286148-the-rise-of-dos-how-microsoft-got-the-ibm-pc-os-contract
EDIT: Not my fault link is broken, proper URL encoding ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
It would be too simplistic to really say something like MS's OS was the original OS for the IBM PC. Or that IBM PC's are the only type of PC hardware
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influence_of_the_IBM_PC_on_the_personal_computer_market
etc.
But, having said that, MS DOS and IBM PC were far and away the biggest players during the seminal years of widespread adoption of PCs. So they earned their right to stick in the collective consciousness. Even though the concepts are ever in flux, people tend to stick with traditional meanings even if those terms become a little outdated.
I know we're a minority group and would like that to change to less of a minority group, but I also am advocating for us not to become one "of those types" of minorities. Extremely thin skinned about the least little perceived slight in casual words.
Last edited by Halifax on 27 July 2016 at 1:01 am UTC
But also, you gotta give Windows credit where it's due.
http://forwardthinking.pcmag.com/software/286148-the-rise-of-dos-how-microsoft-got-the-ibm-pc-os-contract.
http%3A%2F%2Fforwardthinking.pcmag.com%2Fsoftware%2F286148-the-rise-of-dos-how-microsoft-got-the-ibm-pc-os-contract
EDIT: Not my fault link is broken, proper URL encoding ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
It would be too simplistic to really say something like MS's OS was the original OS for the IBM PC. Or that IBM PC's are the only type of PC hardware
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influence_of_the_IBM_PC_on_the_personal_computer_market
etc.
But, having said that, MS DOS and IBM PC were far and away the biggest players during the seminal years of widespread adoption of PCs. So they earned their right to stick in the collective consciousness. Even though the concepts are ever in flux, people tend to stick with traditional meanings even if those terms become a little outdated.
I know we're a minority group and would like that to change to less of a minority group, but I also am advocating for us not to become one "of those types" of minorities. Extremely thin skinned about the least little perceived slight in casual words.
Last edited by Halifax on 27 July 2016 at 1:01 am UTC
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