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Quite a number of people have asked me to talk about where to buy Linux games, how to make sure developers are supported and so on, so here I am.
First of all, I am fully aware there will likely be a small backlash in the comments on certain points. We do seem to have a small minority of very vocal people who like to boast about buying dirt cheap games from places like G2A, which makes me sad. We also have a few who like to advocate piracy, which is not only sad, but makes us look really bad in the eyes of developers. For the most part though, the people commenting here are fantastic to talk to.
To make this a point: I am not aiming to single anyone out, nor am I aiming to be hostile towards anyone. Read this as if we are all sitting around the table having a *insert favourite drink* and discussing the best way to support our platform. That’s what this is all about, everything I do is to help Linux gaming progress somehow.
To get this out of the way; I flat out do not recommend buying from places like G2A and Kinguin, Samsai already wrote about that here. Read that as a starting point if you please. Basically, don’t pre-order, don’t buy from random reseller stores.
While Samsai touched on some dubious stores in his linked post, I wanted to talk about Steam key resellers in general. I would completely steer clear of all of them, that’s the single safest option here. I actually already wrote about this before here.
As you can see, we’ve already written about all of this before in various places, so it’s time to bring it together under one roof. Instead of having the information scattered across various previous articles.
So, how do you know if your purchase is counted as a Linux sale? Most of the time it’s actually pretty simple. I’ve come up with some general guidelines and information for you, it’s your call on how to act upon it. I don’t want to seem like I am forcing anything on anyone, these are my personal thoughts as always. As someone who is a gamer at heart who firmly believes in supporting developers, as well as an editor.
Cheap games & Resellers
If you’re extremely strapped for cash, rather than go to some dubious key reseller, try to wait out for spring/summer/autumn/winter sales. Most major stores now do massive sales for each season like Steam and GOG do. Sales happen so often, you really have no reason to go to some random reseller where your purchase is not just likely to count for Windows, but feed the pocket of none of the actual developers or publishers.
Steam rather often does specific Publisher or Developer sales, weekend sales, free weekends to test games and more. You have so many chances to get legitimate cheap games. If money really is the issue, you’re just not being patient enough. You are in full control of your own wallet, be smart with it. There's nothing wrong with waiting for a sale, that's not the issue here at all.
I’ve seen so many people worry about how little Linux games sell in comparison to other platforms, and buying your games dirt cheap on reseller stores only does one thing: Weaken our sales statistics even more and reduce the possibility of future ports happening.
Seeing people say things about their financial situation, well, I have news for you, you’re not entitled to anything. It’s a shame if you can’t afford it (and I feel for you!), but why should that entitle you to pay sometimes 90% less than the rest of us from a store that supports no one but itself? You know what I do if I can’t afford something? I wait until I can, I don’t buy it for 90% off the price from the back of a truck. That’s essentially what key resellers do. Not all of them mind you, but most use dubious methods of acquiring their keys.
I admit there are reasons why you may want to seek other sources, like region locking, bad dubbing of the audio in certain versions and other reasons I haven’t thought of. I don’t mean to lump everyone under the same umbrella here. The same thing, sadly, still applies to you. You’re not entitled to it, it’s best to voice your opinion to the developer directly. By going to these questionable stores, you’re still possibly hurting Linux gaming.
I really hate the word “entitled”, it sounds terrible, but it’s an accurate way of portraying some of the attitudes I’ve seen. If this offends you somehow, you should realize it’s probably a perfect description of your attitude.
If you’re still going to buy cheap games from random places, remember who you’re supporting by doing it (certainly not the developer), and remember when developers and publishers talk down Linux ports, you’re probably at least a small part of the problem. This may sound a little unfair, but it’s the honest truth of the matter. A small amount of sales being cut down even smaller is good for no one.
To quote Edwin from Feral Interactive:
I've spoken to numerous other developers who all say a similar thing. I linked to this before, but Bundle Stars is a good example of this when I asked them if they have Linux keys or just Windows keys a while ago:
Steam - Buying directly from Steam on Linux is a Linux sale. That’s a fact, so long as the game has a playable Linux version. It doesn’t matter if it doesn’t have a SteamOS icon, if it has a Linux version, the developers will see a sale for it.
It doesn't really matter what operating system you buy your game on when it's directly on Steam, the main thing that counts is where it's first installed and played on for the first two weeks.
If you buy a key from elsewhere and don’t activate it until that particular game gets ported to Linux, that’s still a Windows sale. Why? Your key would have been generated before a Linux version existed, it would be part of a set of keys designed for a specific platform. The developer may see a Linux download, but not a Linux sale. I’ve had this confirmed from multiple different developers.
GOG - My GOG contacts have been unable to tell me how Linux games are tracked. I refuse to believe in 2016 a store as big as GOG don’t have something in place, and I don’t take their refusal to be open about it as a “we don’t track them”, but more as they are a business not wanting to divulge private business information.
It’s most likely that they track the number of downloads per-platform for each game.
I’ve tried asking developers about their stats from GOG, but no one is talking about it. It’s possible GOG specifically prohibits this.
Humble Bundle/Store - Humble as mentioned above in our quote from Edwin usually have keys for each platform.
Humble track the platform that was used to purchase each game, which is how they do their pie chart. So, if you buy it while on Linux, it’s generally a Linux purchase. The same applies as before though, if you buy it on Humble before it has a Linux version, prepare to be a Windows customer.
I am unsure how buying it from a mobile will count, as that’s never been mentioned anywhere. They most likely have a default set on it, which would probably be Windows for mobile sales. It’s possible they may wait to see what desktop system tries to redeem them, but we can’t be sure here.
Originally, Humble had a checkbox to tick which operating system to be counted for, but that hasn’t been around for some time. I did some test purchases today for researching this and never saw anything like it.
Itch.io (updated)- A statement from their head:
Games Republic - Their answer to me from last time:
Developers stores
One major way to support developers is to buy directly from their own store or website. Like the Feral store, Aspyr Media store, Virtual Programming store as some examples. That way, you are guaranteed to not only count as a Linux sale, but support developers directly with more of your money (Steam gets no cut then for example).
Final note, please try to remain respectful in the comments. There's no need to be rude or disrespectful to others. Disagreements are fine and part of life, insults and bad attitudes are not needed here.
With thanks to Samsai and Flesk for giving their input on this article. Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
First of all, I am fully aware there will likely be a small backlash in the comments on certain points. We do seem to have a small minority of very vocal people who like to boast about buying dirt cheap games from places like G2A, which makes me sad. We also have a few who like to advocate piracy, which is not only sad, but makes us look really bad in the eyes of developers. For the most part though, the people commenting here are fantastic to talk to.
To make this a point: I am not aiming to single anyone out, nor am I aiming to be hostile towards anyone. Read this as if we are all sitting around the table having a *insert favourite drink* and discussing the best way to support our platform. That’s what this is all about, everything I do is to help Linux gaming progress somehow.
To get this out of the way; I flat out do not recommend buying from places like G2A and Kinguin, Samsai already wrote about that here. Read that as a starting point if you please. Basically, don’t pre-order, don’t buy from random reseller stores.
While Samsai touched on some dubious stores in his linked post, I wanted to talk about Steam key resellers in general. I would completely steer clear of all of them, that’s the single safest option here. I actually already wrote about this before here.
As you can see, we’ve already written about all of this before in various places, so it’s time to bring it together under one roof. Instead of having the information scattered across various previous articles.
So, how do you know if your purchase is counted as a Linux sale? Most of the time it’s actually pretty simple. I’ve come up with some general guidelines and information for you, it’s your call on how to act upon it. I don’t want to seem like I am forcing anything on anyone, these are my personal thoughts as always. As someone who is a gamer at heart who firmly believes in supporting developers, as well as an editor.
Cheap games & Resellers
If you’re extremely strapped for cash, rather than go to some dubious key reseller, try to wait out for spring/summer/autumn/winter sales. Most major stores now do massive sales for each season like Steam and GOG do. Sales happen so often, you really have no reason to go to some random reseller where your purchase is not just likely to count for Windows, but feed the pocket of none of the actual developers or publishers.
Steam rather often does specific Publisher or Developer sales, weekend sales, free weekends to test games and more. You have so many chances to get legitimate cheap games. If money really is the issue, you’re just not being patient enough. You are in full control of your own wallet, be smart with it. There's nothing wrong with waiting for a sale, that's not the issue here at all.
I’ve seen so many people worry about how little Linux games sell in comparison to other platforms, and buying your games dirt cheap on reseller stores only does one thing: Weaken our sales statistics even more and reduce the possibility of future ports happening.
Seeing people say things about their financial situation, well, I have news for you, you’re not entitled to anything. It’s a shame if you can’t afford it (and I feel for you!), but why should that entitle you to pay sometimes 90% less than the rest of us from a store that supports no one but itself? You know what I do if I can’t afford something? I wait until I can, I don’t buy it for 90% off the price from the back of a truck. That’s essentially what key resellers do. Not all of them mind you, but most use dubious methods of acquiring their keys.
I admit there are reasons why you may want to seek other sources, like region locking, bad dubbing of the audio in certain versions and other reasons I haven’t thought of. I don’t mean to lump everyone under the same umbrella here. The same thing, sadly, still applies to you. You’re not entitled to it, it’s best to voice your opinion to the developer directly. By going to these questionable stores, you’re still possibly hurting Linux gaming.
I really hate the word “entitled”, it sounds terrible, but it’s an accurate way of portraying some of the attitudes I’ve seen. If this offends you somehow, you should realize it’s probably a perfect description of your attitude.
If you’re still going to buy cheap games from random places, remember who you’re supporting by doing it (certainly not the developer), and remember when developers and publishers talk down Linux ports, you’re probably at least a small part of the problem. This may sound a little unfair, but it’s the honest truth of the matter. A small amount of sales being cut down even smaller is good for no one.
To quote Edwin from Feral Interactive:
QuoteIf you buy from a third party and they don't explicitly say they are selling Linux or Mac keys then you've bought a Windows key. Bundle-star for example sell Windows keys.
Doesn't matter where you play the game on third party stores the sale is based on the steam keys they have purchased. Humble Bundle for example have a set of keys tagged as Windows, Mac and Linux and hand out the correct ones based on your platform so that the correct platform sale is recorded.
I've spoken to numerous other developers who all say a similar thing. I linked to this before, but Bundle Stars is a good example of this when I asked them if they have Linux keys or just Windows keys a while ago:
Bundle StarsHi Liam, Sorry for the delay in responding over the weekend. I can confirm that we have not been sent new keys for Shadow of Mordor since the Linux release and only Windows is mentioned on the page. However, where we promote games as being available for Linux, these will all activate correctly for the platform.
Steam - Buying directly from Steam on Linux is a Linux sale. That’s a fact, so long as the game has a playable Linux version. It doesn’t matter if it doesn’t have a SteamOS icon, if it has a Linux version, the developers will see a sale for it.
It doesn't really matter what operating system you buy your game on when it's directly on Steam, the main thing that counts is where it's first installed and played on for the first two weeks.
If you buy a key from elsewhere and don’t activate it until that particular game gets ported to Linux, that’s still a Windows sale. Why? Your key would have been generated before a Linux version existed, it would be part of a set of keys designed for a specific platform. The developer may see a Linux download, but not a Linux sale. I’ve had this confirmed from multiple different developers.
GOG - My GOG contacts have been unable to tell me how Linux games are tracked. I refuse to believe in 2016 a store as big as GOG don’t have something in place, and I don’t take their refusal to be open about it as a “we don’t track them”, but more as they are a business not wanting to divulge private business information.
It’s most likely that they track the number of downloads per-platform for each game.
I’ve tried asking developers about their stats from GOG, but no one is talking about it. It’s possible GOG specifically prohibits this.
Humble Bundle/Store - Humble as mentioned above in our quote from Edwin usually have keys for each platform.
Humble track the platform that was used to purchase each game, which is how they do their pie chart. So, if you buy it while on Linux, it’s generally a Linux purchase. The same applies as before though, if you buy it on Humble before it has a Linux version, prepare to be a Windows customer.
I am unsure how buying it from a mobile will count, as that’s never been mentioned anywhere. They most likely have a default set on it, which would probably be Windows for mobile sales. It’s possible they may wait to see what desktop system tries to redeem them, but we can’t be sure here.
Originally, Humble had a checkbox to tick which operating system to be counted for, but that hasn’t been around for some time. I did some test purchases today for researching this and never saw anything like it.
Itch.io (updated)- A statement from their head:
QuoteWe don't have a metric to associated purchases to a platform. But we do monitor what files are downloaded with a purchase so we could calculate what purchases result in Linux downloads.
Games Republic - Their answer to me from last time:
QuoteWe work directly with developers & online retailers like Nexway, which work directly with publishers too. We got that information on our About Us page: https://gamesrepublic.com/service/about-us.html
We sell only legitimate and authorized keys received directly from the publishers
Developers stores
One major way to support developers is to buy directly from their own store or website. Like the Feral store, Aspyr Media store, Virtual Programming store as some examples. That way, you are guaranteed to not only count as a Linux sale, but support developers directly with more of your money (Steam gets no cut then for example).
Final note, please try to remain respectful in the comments. There's no need to be rude or disrespectful to others. Disagreements are fine and part of life, insults and bad attitudes are not needed here.
With thanks to Samsai and Flesk for giving their input on this article. Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
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The comments on this article are closed.
Mountain Man Oct 6, 2016
Quoting: buenaventuraThat is my question to you, your argument inconsistent - why should poor people pay a higher percentage of their income for the same cultural product compared to rich people? Why should it not scale (if possible, such as in a humble bundle or on Patreon) according to the purchasing power of the customer?It's very simple: being poor does not entitle you to the economic output of others.
"But it's not fair that those with more money can afford things that I can't!"
You know what? Tough. Like I always tell my kids, life isn't fair, and the sooner you accept that fact, the happier you will be.
And what's this nonsense about games being a "cultural product" that somehow makes it OK to steal them? I honestly can not apprehend such an argument. First of all, the cultural significance of video games is dubious at best, and secondly, there are countless ways to culturally enrich yourself without having to steal.
Bottom line: you are not entitled to video games.
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Quoting: buenaventuraMy talk about moral issues was mostly in response to your comments about people feeling "entitled" etc., which is (to me) repugnant. They are entitled to culture (UDHR), and if they cannot get it 100% legitimately, that is not an entirely personal problem of the buyer, but a problem for example of the structure of pricing systems, state support for artists etc. It is (somewhat, a little) like blaming abuse victims because they are annoying the person abusing them.
You're hoot. Would like to elaborate on the cultural value of the oh so expensive AAA titles? In what way is COD umpteenth something "cultural you are entitled to"?
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Mountain Man Oct 6, 2016
Quoting: tuubiI may be wrong, but I'm just generally suspicious of all key resellers.Quoting: Mountain Man"grey-market" sites like Bundle Stars or G2AWhen did Bundle Stars go from selling legal keys—albeit Windows ones—to being a grey-market site? I've never bought from them for the reasons explained in this article, but unless you know something we do not, that's just baseless FUD. G2A is different.
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Quoting: FutureSutureQuoting: ShmerlI think someone posted that GOG support told him, that they collect stats on user agents and downloads. But I can't find the source now.That seems likely judging from the following images:
Interesting catch.
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I think it's kinda funny how these discussions always tend to have at least one guy go "yeah, but I am poor and cannot afford games so I get them illegimately because human rights". Yeah, it's not like there are any free games out there that could potentially last you a lifetime. Nah, just gotta get those cool games and not settle for anything less.
Edit: Sorry, forgot some </sarcasm> tags there.
Last edited by Samsai on 6 October 2016 at 4:49 pm UTC
Edit: Sorry, forgot some </sarcasm> tags there.
Last edited by Samsai on 6 October 2016 at 4:49 pm UTC
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Quoting: Mountain ManIt's very simple: being poor does not entitle you to the economic output of others.
This.
Look at the end of the day you have no automatic right to have something just because others do.
Buy a game at full price, or at a discount, in a way that records it as a Linux sale and you help the cause.
However, if you purchase a game in a way that records it as a Windows sale you reduce the chance of future games coming to Linux.
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I'm wiping away tears of laughter at the thought that the price of something I want to buy should be tied to my "purchasing power"! Absolutely hilarious stuff. Oh, you're a high earner? You pay ten times what this guy does for exactly the same experience. Brilliant. But... but... why did I kill myself all my life to earn more then...? WHY????
Sat through all nine pages of comments and this was quite the pay off.
Great article btw. I'd like some clarity from Bundle Stars, since I bought one of theirs a year ago or thereabouts and assumed that since it was all Linux-compatible titles, it would be Linux keys I'm buying. Disappointing if that's not the case.
Sat through all nine pages of comments and this was quite the pay off.
Great article btw. I'd like some clarity from Bundle Stars, since I bought one of theirs a year ago or thereabouts and assumed that since it was all Linux-compatible titles, it would be Linux keys I'm buying. Disappointing if that's not the case.
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Fortunately morality isn't a bool, it's a long long int. Otherwise the world would be a puritanical hell-hole where people would be condemned for all eternity for taping an LP from a friend when they were 12.
I presume the more pious members of this discussion have been strict adherents of the thousands of pages of copyright law for their entire lives as no one likes a hypocrite.
I presume the more pious members of this discussion have been strict adherents of the thousands of pages of copyright law for their entire lives as no one likes a hypocrite.
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Quoting: minus9I presume the more pious members of this discussion have been strict adherents of the thousands of pages of copyright law for their entire lives as no one likes a hypocrite.
Well that's a leap. We weren't talking piracy, really, but since we are now: the piracy angle is more clear cut - it's stealing, plain and simple. Rationalise all you want (and I did when I was younger), but remember that if the shoe was on the other foot, you'd be as pissed off as the next artist if someone was freeloading your work. The music industry might have over-reacted in the 80's, of course, and if we're being honest here, they're still over-reacting. A bit like the movie industry, or the TV industry. Crucially, none of their over-reaction gives you the right to steal their work sadly.
So if you create something incredible, then set a fair price for that effort, if someone rips you off via piracy, then a) you have every right to be angry because b) piracy is theft. Argue about fair price, sure, but this is boolean, not a long integer, as you put it.
But this article isn't about piracy. It's about buying dodgy keys, knowing that they're dodgy, knowing that the porting house won't see a penny, then complaining that this article made them feel guilty for it. That is sheer entitlement, and that's what made me laugh. The straight up rationalisation the "boo hoo" of it all. By all means, buy from where you like, that's your prerogative. But don't spout on public forums about how doing so is your right (as a human??) because you're entitled to experience everything that's ever made... because <mumble> culture <something>.
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First world morality police, I’d rather not have this on GoL, but, apparently, it isn’t possible. Pity.
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Its an interesting discussion - as I see it, roughly speaking, there seem to be two views clashing:
One side of the argument sees video games as goods/services. From this it easily follows that if you can't pay you don't get the stuff.
The other side of the argument sees video gaming as a cultural activity. Money barely enters the equations in this view: the street artist has to perform first, then if the audience liked it they pay, or not.
For myself, I sympathise much more with the second view. It seems to be much tougher on the artist since, if you adhere (maybe even partly) to the first view, they have to compete with free copies of their product. However, in the second view, if one is enjoying the culture, one makes sure to return a favour, which in modern times is making sure there's some money going to the artist in question when you can.
One side of the argument sees video games as goods/services. From this it easily follows that if you can't pay you don't get the stuff.
The other side of the argument sees video gaming as a cultural activity. Money barely enters the equations in this view: the street artist has to perform first, then if the audience liked it they pay, or not.
For myself, I sympathise much more with the second view. It seems to be much tougher on the artist since, if you adhere (maybe even partly) to the first view, they have to compete with free copies of their product. However, in the second view, if one is enjoying the culture, one makes sure to return a favour, which in modern times is making sure there's some money going to the artist in question when you can.
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scaine: Piracy is not stealing. Stealing is taking from someone. Piracy is piracy. Its like listening to musician who is playing behind fence for audience that paid for it. Musican isn't directly losing anything, audience who paid for it isn't directly losing anything. However, it becomes problematic when everyone is standing behind fence. But, there may be several reasons why people is staying there and not going in. One reason is that they are only passing by, listening shortly to see if they like it. Another reason is that they went previously to this performance but were disappointed by quality, protecting their investment that way. Or just that the entrance cost is too high or they are standing behind fence because no one put doors into it.
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Quoting: emphyIts an interesting discussion - as I see it, roughly speaking, there seem to be two views clashing:One could say that this street performer does not have any other choice.
One side of the argument sees video games as goods/services. From this it easily follows that if you can't pay you don't get the stuff.
The other side of the argument sees video gaming as a cultural activity. Money barely enters the equations in this view: the street artist has to perform first, then if the audience liked it they pay, or not.
For myself, I sympathise much more with the second view. It seems to be much tougher on the artist since, if you adhere (maybe even partly) to the first view, they have to compete with free copies of their product. However, in the second view, if one is enjoying the culture, one makes sure to return a favour, which in modern times is making sure there's some money going to the artist in question when you can.
Many states are subsidizing various cultural activities for the good of population. If certain person wants games to be free because of its part of culture, he can make an attempt during next election in his or her country.
However, I would say that this idea is just plain wrong. Food, architecture, clothing... all those and many others are part of culture, but no one expect to get these things for free (except gypsies)
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Quoting: ColomboHowever, I would say that this idea is just plain wrong. Food, architecture, clothing... all those and many others are part of culture, but no one expect to get these things for free
Not quite - and this ties closely with how currently culture is organised into intellectual property. For example, you pay for food, but it is quite usual for recipes to be freely shared (similar to, say, how theatre groups can perform Shakespeare's plays) However, literature, music, films and video games are nowadays locked away into this legal framework which prohibits copying and insists that each and everyone who enjoys them pay a fee.
Don't mistake the idea of not charging each and every person individually with actually being free of charge.
============================================================================
Back on topic, notice that even with my commie view on culture (^_^), if you participate you should make sure that when you want to contribute your contribution reaches the dev, so buying at shady sites like g2a should be a no-no.
Last edited by emphy on 7 October 2016 at 5:00 am UTC
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So... What you're basically saying is "buy wherever and however you want, Valve still can't measure sales per platform properly", right? ;)
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Quoting: emphyDon't mistake the idea of not charging each and every person individually with actually being free of charge.I am not mistaking anything, if you took your time and read properly my post, I was speaking about subsidization of culture.
Quoting: emphyNot quite - and this ties closely with how currently culture is organised into intellectual property. For example, you pay for food, but it is quite usual for recipes to be freely shared (similar to, say, how theatre groups can perform Shakespeare's plays) However, literature, music, films and video games are nowadays locked away into this legal framework which prohibits copying and insists that each and everyone who enjoys them pay a fee.
Do you even understand the examples you are giving? There are tons of recipes, still, there are cookbooks for which you must pay. And some recipes are kept secret.
The same with theatre groups. They are not performing for free, nor every play is free.
In the same way, there are tons of books, movies, music and video games that are free, there are people exchanging part of code, even writing for free. As there are football games on which you can go for free, there are ones, for which you must pay.
If you want free games, go to armorgames or kongregate and play for days, months, years, completely free of charge! Or many other free games that authors did in their free time! You can download free books! But understand that ITS UP TO AUTHOR IF HE MAKES HIS WORK FREE OF CHARGE.
But, if you want good products, it takes time. It takes time to be good coder, good writer, good musician. As it takes time to be good engineer, scientists... Only if someone can safely invest that time with the idea, that he won't die from starvation on street, he needs money. And if people are willing to pay for higher quality stuff, he will make money and thus keep creating.
Yeah, there may be benefactors, who will invest their money into their favourite creator and thus enable him to do that and he can make that stuff free. Yeah, there may be investors that invest their money into creator with the idea that they will make money out of it. Yeah, there may be states or organization, that will invest public money into creators with the idea that they will promote culture. There are libraries, if you want something free, go look at them. There are universities and schools that in a lot of countries provide free "services".
But wanting stuff free without DRASTIC societal changes that will subsidize every creator, thats is absolutely out of reality. Namely if you want to force it on EVERYONE. That my friend, is communism.
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buenaventura Oct 7, 2016
Quoting: emphyIts an interesting discussion - as I see it, roughly speaking, there seem to be two views clashing:
One side of the argument sees video games as goods/services. From this it easily follows that if you can't pay you don't get the stuff.
The other side of the argument sees video gaming as a cultural activity. Money barely enters the equations in this view: the street artist has to perform first, then if the audience liked it they pay, or not.
Nicely explained! And impressive that other people feel like airing anything but the consensus of the guffawing mass of self important brutes set with "TOUGH LIFE KID" and "THAT's JUST HOW IT IS" blargh. Funny also that different systems of artist compensation are very common and established even in our small gaming world - itch.io, humblebundle, patreon etc. - so it's strange how the very NOTION is communist, but these things aren't. And that we are all using linux, where to start on that. Anyway.
So that is essentially my view on that matter as well (and I wont elaborate further). To keep the discussion civil and interesting/useful, it is good to limit it to a specific issue and try to stay there, I think.
My basic issue with the article is, bashing people for the way they spend their money will not help "our cause". See for example the free software foundation (fsf.org). They have VERY strong views about software freedom, yet in all their activism, certification, newsletters etc. I have never seen them vilifying or express aggression towards a specific person or group of people - they are super critical about organisations, systems, choices etc., but they are not aggressive towards individuals, because (I suspect they reckon) such behavior is counter productive and more the realm of far right nazi groups or the Red Brigades and the like. No professional/smart organisation or activist would do that. Instead they work by informing people and helping them make decisions, not by bullying them. And most of your article is informing, while a subset is unprofessional bashing or simply irrelevant and just takes up space. You would never see a site like Rock Paper Shotgun write something like that; it simply takes focus from the important information you are trying to convey, if nothing else.
I would like to see some more about how, for example, itch.io counts linux sales, or EXACTLY how the process works with Steam (there is obviously some confusing regarding this). Perhaps all written upp more like a table with an index of stores and information about how purchasing from each store impacts developers and linux gaming, including a "shame corner" where dubious sites (such as g2a) are warned against. What do you think (Liam), and I ask without hostility because I do really like your site, and I want to help make it better if I can. I guess the question is what your site is first and foremost:
1. your personal blog (in that case then fine, go ahead)
2. site for furthering and advocating gaming on linux (then perhaps think again)
Last edited by buenaventura on 7 October 2016 at 6:53 am UTC
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Quoting: Colombo...Quicky post, since I don't have much time now.
I understand my own examples quite well, thank you ^_^
Sure, there are cookbooks for which you must pay, but there's no one stopping you from sharing the recipes contained therein. Same for theatre groups performing out of copyright plays. Still, more than enough people are prepared to pay for (quite high quality) versions to be able to fund the production.
The general availability of culture has absolutely nothing to do with the ability of the authors to charge for their work. But once people have culture in their hands/minds/computer, the author's control of it is a legal construct. The simple reality is that, without some stasi-level surveillance, people will share products of the mind. The implication of people owning ideas is restricting peoples freedom to share it, FORCING them to stop doing what has been a pillar to cultural development for thousands of years.
Last edited by emphy on 7 October 2016 at 7:51 am UTC
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Quoting: Colomboscaine: Piracy is not stealing. Stealing is taking from someone. Piracy is piracy. Its like listening to musician who is playing behind fence for audience that paid for it. Musican isn't directly losing anything, audience who paid for it isn't directly losing anything.
That's a terrible metaphor, I'm afraid. By all means, listen to the radio, or even your friends CD of an artist: that's not piracy.
But in the musician example above, we're not talking about piggy-backing a live performance, a closer example would be a copied CD. You're paying nothing for a perfect copy of what other people did pay for. You are stealing. This can't be debated. It just is.
Sure, there is nuance, but when people start talking about digital vs physical, that's just rationalisation for the fact that pirates deprive artists of revenue. Weren't going to buy it anyway, hence not a sale? Largely false, because if you weren't going to buy it anyway, then why did you pay peanuts for a pirate copy? Don't think it's worth the asking price? Wait for a sale, or debate that price.
But piracy is stealing. Fact.
Last edited by scaine on 7 October 2016 at 7:48 am UTC
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Quoting: scaineQuoting: Colomboscaine: Piracy is not stealing. Stealing is taking from someone. Piracy is piracy. Its like listening to musician who is playing behind fence for audience that paid for it. Musican isn't directly losing anything, audience who paid for it isn't directly losing anything...
But in the musician example above, we're not talking about piggy-backing a live performance, a closer example would be a copied CD. You're paying nothing for a perfect copy of what other people did pay for. You are stealing. This can't be debated. It just is.
Sure, there is nuance, but when people start talking about digital vs physical, that's just rationalisation for the fact that pirates deprive artists of revenue. Weren't going to buy it anyway, hence not a sale? Largely false, because if you weren't going to buy it anyway, then why did you pay peanuts for a pirate copy? Don't think it's worth the asking price? Wait for a sale, or debate that price.
But piracy is stealing. Fact.
Erm, no. Piracy is copyright infringement: breaking a legally enforced monopoly on copying.
There is something to be said for calling it stealing when copies are being sold, since in that case you can demonstrate the buyer was prepared to pay. Even then, the one buying it is not stealing, but buying 'stolen goods', and the seller is the one who is stealing.
Last edited by emphy on 7 October 2016 at 8:03 am UTC
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