The Linux port of space action game 'EVERSPACE' is sounding a bit iffy now

This game looks nice, and as always, I find it really interesting when developers share technical details about their issues, even if it could be a bit more detailed in this case.

I hope they will sort these issues out. That's probably another reason to start with OpenGL rather than DX...

Several mouse cursor issues (Mouse always getting set to the center when we turned drawing of the system mouse cursor off, mouse offset when changing window size, mouse position being clamped and not being able use the whole screen), fullscreen not working non-natively,

Are these those that SDL layer with unity should solve?

Isn't the Mac version using OpenGL too or already Metal?

It's not the first Unreal engine game to be ported to Linux, more efforts to support the platform and maybe i'll consider to buy it.
I'm tired of excuses.

noooooooooooooooo! I was so hyped for this one.

Im starting to think a lot of these issues are not so much that Linux is complex, but that these 'developers' are artists / designers / basic coders with lots of engine specific experience. i.e they are not traditional 'programmers'. A slight spanner in the works outside the sandbox that they work within and it's just straight faces all around.

As people have said Vulkan will help with this, but so would hiring someone who understands programming and computers as a whole into the game studio. It often seems this is an Achilles heal of Linux development, many don't even have a Linux test rig. A few proper desktop/OS level programmers could send bug reports and have things fixed upstream for other studios & the FOSS community to benefit from too.

Feral interactive seem to have a good bit of this concept sorted. So its not Linux as much as it is inexperience and poor resourcing.


Last edited by on 14 November 2016 at 12:09 pm UTC

The word 'developer' has it's definition stretched WAY too far way too often.

They're just making it sound hard so they get the glory when it's done, I hope.

I hope they will sort these issues out. That's probably another reason to start with OpenGL rather than DX...

And penalise 90%+ of your clients to make life easier for the 2%? OpenGL has limitations that DX doesn't.

Sounds like usual issues during development. I expect these to be fairly fixable.
Otherwise this would be a real downer cause I was really looking forward for this game.

The word 'developer' has it's definition stretched WAY too far way too often.

That's a bit like saying the word "academic" is stretched too far too often. It's a general term that applies to a wide range of specialists. I'm a developer, but that just means I develop software. Nothing more.

The word 'developer' has it's definition stretched WAY too far way too often.

That's a bit like saying the word "academic" is stretched too far too often. It's a general term that applies to a wide range of specialists. I'm a developer, but that just means I develop software. Nothing more.

I agree. Thats my point. Until we identify why such lackluster support and often what seem like excuses are traded we can't begin to understand if it is Linux that is at fault or the developer .. or both. So we can't improve Linux and get more titles on the platform.

It is my experience that many ( admittedly indie ) devs are artists with some game engine knowledge and basic Java / C+ understanding.That is to say desktop specific issues, niggles or OpenGL quirks cannot even begin to be dealt with. It's just therefore easier to blame OpenGL / Linux rather than accept they don't know what they are doing and don't have the time to work it out.




caveat* not every 'developer' is the same as there are success stories. But clearly there is a trend here hence the discussion.


Last edited by on 14 November 2016 at 1:29 pm UTC

I was waiting as well for this linux port. Quite sad if it does not happen.


"

I hope they will sort these issues out. That's probably another reason to start with OpenGL rather than DX..

."

"And penalise 90%+ of your clients to make life easier for the 2%? OpenGL has limitations that DX doesn't."

If you start with OpenGL you won't penalise anyone appart yourself a bit of extrawork on the earlier stage of the devloppment. But in Everspace case it is too late. That's why linux user push so earlier for linux adoption, in order to make it happen. Otherwise devs when encountering problems just give up. What is weird is that they don't not get this problem on MAC :(

This is what happens when developers use Microsoft limitware like DirectX.

Maybe they can give a call to feral so that they sort out the problem and get a little % on linux sales as a reward?

And penalise 90%+ of your clients to make life easier for the 2%? OpenGL has limitations that DX doesn't.

OpneGL has it's advantange, more close to metal, but not easy to do e real MT.
It's different API, but works in Windows, Mac and Linux and if you want to support this 3 OS it's the more logical choice.

Mouse cursor is warped to the middle, it's a part of how things work for "fullscreen" windows. Means you can get relative mouse movement without a cursor hitting screen edges. Very, very easy to get around this - a bit of math and handling your own cursor (which they should be doing anyway) and the problem is solved.

It sounds like they have their shaders set to use low or medium precision floats, though maybe there's some kind of in-engine conversion going on that only works for them with directx? It sounds like they're blaming OpenGL on the problem, but the thing is that GL and DX can use the same precision and number ranges, so....more info required.

I think a post like this is likely to stimulate devs work on the Linux port if placed where the game's devs are active.

Edit: have you contacted the devs with this bit of info?


Last edited by dubigrasu on 14 November 2016 at 4:00 pm UTC

I hope they will sort these issues out. That's probably another reason to start with OpenGL rather than DX...

And penalise 90%+ of your clients to make life easier for the 2%? OpenGL has limitations that DX doesn't.

Well, OpenGL is cross-platform, even to a larger extent than the 3 main desktop OSes. The alternative ones, first, then the (majority of) consoles, as well as mobile devices. That's not even counting exotic hardware out there (smart TVs, vehicle infotainment, software rasterizers, etc...) that's potentially more than 2% market share, especially as you factor in future proofing your product (avoiding lock in, potentially more platforms too, and better forward compatibility potential).

That said, it's not a magic bullet either, and DX consists of more than just D3D, but the same argument applies.

I would also be curious concerning the said limitations of OpenGL compared to DirectX, on the technical side.
In my experience, working with OpenGL was not that complicated (and seems to become simpler/more explicit down the vulkan path). Your mileage may vary, though, depending on your tastes and what you are familiar with.


Last edited by MayeulC on 14 November 2016 at 3:17 pm UTC

That is sounding way worse than in their last Kickstarter Update:

Linux State of Mind

We know the promised Linux support is dragging along but we're making progress. We fixed the graphic glitches using OpenGL 4.0 and we see some good performance, too. We also got the mouse controls working in windowed mode but in full screen we still got quite a few issues. It turned out to be a lot harder to port the game to Linux than we originally thought, but rest assured that we are still working on it and hope to get the remaining issues solved, soon.

What's disturbing me is, that they worked on a XBox One version before the Linux version, even though the Linux stretch goal was reached, but the console stretch goal wasn't. So it looks like the work on the Linux version was indeed started way too late, and now we might never get it :-(
Who knows what deal they had to sign, to get in on XBox One, maybe now we have to pay the price. Just guessing :->

If this really fails, it was the last Kickstarter game I pledged, that promised Linux support. Because here I pledged a lot of money. All Kickstarter games promising Linux support (also those with Linux only as a stretch goal), should present a working demo, like System Shock or Greedy Guns did. Here we can be quite sure to get a Linux version.

Meh, it would be too bad if Everspace won't come to Linux.

Unreal now is almost ready with Vulkan support. Can they use that?