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Civ VI Steam forum mods banning users for expressing Linux support

By Guest -
Aspyr Media is currently working on the feasibility of porting Civ VI to Linux. They are the same great company that gave us the Linux port for Civ V.

Note: This is also discussed in this Steam group.

The Steam topic in question is about Linux support, wherein we, the Linux community have been expressing interest and support of the possibly upcoming Linux release by Aspyr. We've also been talking about technical challenges, APIs, as well as things we'd like to see in a port.

Aside from the trolling from the usual people like meraco, it's been positive and encouraging.

The moderators are NOT employees of Aspyr, Firaxis or 2K Games. They are "volunteer" moderators who don't seem to have any responsibility to any of the involved companies. The moderators do not seem to have any direct connection or communication with Aspyr/Firaxis/2K Games, they get all their updates from Twitter and other social media just like the rest of us.

Thread:
http://steamcommunity.com/app/289070/discussions/0/364042063110545181/?ctp=6
NOTE: This thread has been heavily edited. Many of the supporting posts have been removed. I preserved a couple screenshots of my post just in case, but I wish I had the whole thing. Maybe some of the other community members can fill in some of the gaps here.

What's happening:
The mods are attacking the Linux community, citing rules violations for expressing support of a Linux port.

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We begin, not suprisingly, with the user, meraco. Which you've likely heard of before. This time the mods jump on his bandwagon.

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Banned.

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This ban really bothers me.

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This is what unacceptable developer/publisher support looks like.

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A professional troll at work

Several users, myself included, have been banned. Many posts by many more users have been selectively erased to dismantle the consensus of support. None of the [notably anti-Linux] trolls have been banned, however.

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The post that got me banned.

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My ban notification.

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Annnnnd throwing it down the memory hole.

From the 2K Games forum rules:
Quote1. Be a Contributor
The 2K forums host civil discussions on a variety of topics, and we always want to keep the conversation welcoming, inclusive, and a positive experience.


Should people be arguing with mods in general? No. Probably not.
Should mods visibly undermine Linux discussions? No. Probably not.
Should people be banned for respectfully staying on-topic? Again, No. Definitely not.

Moderation is a responsibility, not a position of power to arbitrarily abuse others for political reasons. If we cannot respectfully discuss these abuses in order to reinstate a positive atmosphere, we are only going to continue to be abused.

We've reached out to Aspyr on this issue. This was their reply:
QuoteThank you so much for bringing this to our attention. The last thing we want is for players to feel ostracized. I have forwarded this email to those who monitor our forums and we will be discussing what to do shortly.

Again, thank you so much for your concern for this community. We really do appreciate it!

Thanks again to Aspyr for being Linux champions.

As of writing this we've yet to receive a response from Firaxis or 2K Games.

Notes from liamdawe, the editor
Showing support for Linux games is great, but people like "meraco" should be completely ignored. Do not rise to their apparent trolling by quoting them or replying to them. They and other anti-Linux posters feed on your replies. Just don't rise to them, you make it worse by doing so. The moderators likely would have ignored it if people didn't rise to the trolls.

As for posting "+1", that alone is spam (by Steam's standards) so be sure to reply with more than that.

It's also never a good idea to discuss a moderators actions in public on Steam, as that will obviously have repercussions. Same goes for claiming it's some sort of dictatorship. That goes for any website, not just Steam.

As always, if you want to show support for a Linux port be smart about it. Feel free to use our forum at any time and link developers to it. I won't go around locking them. Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
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DamonLinuxPL Dec 20, 2016
Some times ago I get ban on CIV V steam forum because Im askinig about next patch and adding missing in Linux version additions language like Polish. Windows version have it all but Linux not. And Im asking about adding it and I added that even pirates are a better, because on torrents is a modified version on CIV5 for Linux with adds support for new languages like Polish and Russian - in the meantime the person who paid for the game (like me) have restrictions on Linux platform (on Windows is fine) for this words I got ban :D http://imgur.com/a/2nmaa




Last edited by DamonLinuxPL on 20 December 2016 at 2:05 pm UTC
kit89 Dec 20, 2016
If you would like to see a Linux version of a particular game then state you would like to see a Linux version. Engaging with users who consider it negatively is irrelevant and a waste of time. The people you are attempting to persuade are the developers, not the general user.

Stop falling into the trap of fanboyism.

Also stop calling people out by their name, it encourages more negative reaction from all parties.
Al3s Dec 20, 2016
Quoting: Guest
Quote“Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.”

― George Carlin


Thats why I stay away from such forums posts.

Great quote.

Now, if only I could punch Meraco in the face... just once, please :(
GustyGhost Dec 20, 2016
So in other words, to hide their inadequacy as developers Feraxis would rather exert huge effort to smoke out any discussion of the thing they lack the skills to deliver. As an onlooker, I can only conclude that it must be some serious inadequacy.
Mountain Man Dec 20, 2016
Quoting: MaCroX95I just don't understand why Windows users have this urge to bombard us on forums... What pleasure does it give them, if Windows is so great then use it and be quiet and ignore linux posts, everybody has the right to like different things depending on the taste.
It is ironic that Microsoft fanboys accuse Linux users of being militant and dogmatic while displaying those very characteristics themselves. Usually their reasoning for attacking Linux support is that they feel that it could take away from resources that could be used to make the Windows version better, despite the fact that project management doesn't work this way.
Boldos Dec 20, 2016
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Quoting: Guest
Quoting: Guest
Quote“Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.”

― George Carlin


Thats why I stay away from such forums posts.

That quote was the quote I was looking for and it summarize it perfectly how to deal with trolls.

This is *generally* a very good rule, and the best thing one can do, when one meets an idiot.

Issue arises, though, when you meet such an idiot at your work/in your professional life, and this idiot is killing your project, or your work reputation, with their (usually very loudly spoken, and usually well targeted) idiocies.

If you run away, you insta-loose everything you worked for....
And what is even worse: by your behaviour, you let the idiot win.

THIS is my worst real-life, all life long dilemma..


Last edited by Boldos on 20 December 2016 at 3:25 pm UTC
Mountain Man Dec 20, 2016
Quoting: MohandevirThe best way to support Linux is still to send cookies to the likes of Aspyr and Feral.

Get them by the belly! Trolls can't get a bite at these! :)
Actually, the very best way to ensure Linux support is to keep buying Linux games. Developers care a lot more about their wallets than they do their bellies.
Mountain Man Dec 20, 2016
Quoting: DamonLinuxPLSome times ago I get ban on CIV V steam forum because Im askinig about next patch and adding missing in Linux version additions language like Polish. Windows version have it all but Linux not. And Im asking about adding it and I added that even pirates are a better, because on torrents is a modified version on CIV5 for Linux with adds support for new languages like Polish and Russian - in the meantime the person who paid for the game (like me) have restrictions on Linux platform (on Windows is fine) for this words I got ban :D http://imgur.com/a/2nmaa

Probably because your post was construed as advocating piracy.
Nezchan Dec 20, 2016
Being a mod is a pretty thankless job, and even if you do everything right you're still going to catch crap from people, accusations of being power-hungry and abusive, etc. Especially on larger forums where there's more moderation to do.

What I'm seeing here seems to be a case of mods taking somewhat too hard a line in the face of a lot of volume. Like Liam, I can see people just posting "+1" as inadvertently spamming, not worth a ban unless they push it but certainly worth removing those messages. A dozen people posting just that (and quoting each other) does make a forum hard to read, and a mod's job is to keep the forum easy to read. Same for people appending +1 to the end of their statements in solidarity and protest, that's easy to see as a pointed attack on the moderators rather than just support for a port. Similarly, diverging into discussion about the moderation itself is basically derailing, and I can see off-topic stuff that's not directly about porting being removed. That stuff belongs in its own thread, not clogging up the works.

Getting caught up in stuff like that and having an adversarial relationship with the mods is what the trolls want most. It benefits them, having the pro-Linux people on the mods' bad side. Continuing to needle them is a bad approach.

That said, it does seem like the mods went overboard, which is pretty easy to do. And yes, they're not as strict on the anti-Linux trolls as they should be. It's questionable whether they're selectively deleting as part of an anti-Linux conspiracy, and trying to disrupt the idea of consensus though, that seems to be a bit of a stretch. What's been presented here isn't nearly enough to support that theory.
Eike Dec 20, 2016
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Quoting: Mountain ManActually, the very best way to ensure Linux support is to keep buying Linux games. Developers care a lot more about their wallets than they do their bellies.

Full wallets make full bellies. :o)
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