Aspyr Media is currently working on the feasibility of porting Civ VI to Linux. They are the same great company that gave us the Linux port for Civ V.
Note: This is also discussed in this Steam group.
The Steam topic in question is about Linux support, wherein we, the Linux community have been expressing interest and support of the possibly upcoming Linux release by Aspyr. We've also been talking about technical challenges, APIs, as well as things we'd like to see in a port.
Aside from the trolling from the usual people like meraco, it's been positive and encouraging.
The moderators are NOT employees of Aspyr, Firaxis or 2K Games. They are "volunteer" moderators who don't seem to have any responsibility to any of the involved companies. The moderators do not seem to have any direct connection or communication with Aspyr/Firaxis/2K Games, they get all their updates from Twitter and other social media just like the rest of us.
Thread:
http://steamcommunity.com/app/289070/discussions/0/364042063110545181/?ctp=6
NOTE: This thread has been heavily edited. Many of the supporting posts have been removed. I preserved a couple screenshots of my post just in case, but I wish I had the whole thing. Maybe some of the other community members can fill in some of the gaps here.
What's happening:
The mods are attacking the Linux community, citing rules violations for expressing support of a Linux port.
We begin, not suprisingly, with the user, meraco. Which you've likely heard of before. This time the mods jump on his bandwagon.
Banned.
This ban really bothers me.
This is what unacceptable developer/publisher support looks like.
A professional troll at work
Several users, myself included, have been banned. Many posts by many more users have been selectively erased to dismantle the consensus of support. None of the [notably anti-Linux] trolls have been banned, however.
The post that got me banned.
My ban notification.
Annnnnd throwing it down the memory hole.
From the 2K Games forum rules:
Should people be arguing with mods in general? No. Probably not.
Should mods visibly undermine Linux discussions? No. Probably not.
Should people be banned for respectfully staying on-topic? Again, No. Definitely not.
Moderation is a responsibility, not a position of power to arbitrarily abuse others for political reasons. If we cannot respectfully discuss these abuses in order to reinstate a positive atmosphere, we are only going to continue to be abused.
We've reached out to Aspyr on this issue. This was their reply:
Thanks again to Aspyr for being Linux champions.
As of writing this we've yet to receive a response from Firaxis or 2K Games.
Notes from liamdawe, the editor
Showing support for Linux games is great, but people like "meraco" should be completely ignored. Do not rise to their apparent trolling by quoting them or replying to them. They and other anti-Linux posters feed on your replies. Just don't rise to them, you make it worse by doing so. The moderators likely would have ignored it if people didn't rise to the trolls.
As for posting "+1", that alone is spam (by Steam's standards) so be sure to reply with more than that.
It's also never a good idea to discuss a moderators actions in public on Steam, as that will obviously have repercussions. Same goes for claiming it's some sort of dictatorship. That goes for any website, not just Steam.
As always, if you want to show support for a Linux port be smart about it. Feel free to use our forum at any time and link developers to it. I won't go around locking them. Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
Note: This is also discussed in this Steam group.
The Steam topic in question is about Linux support, wherein we, the Linux community have been expressing interest and support of the possibly upcoming Linux release by Aspyr. We've also been talking about technical challenges, APIs, as well as things we'd like to see in a port.
Aside from the trolling from the usual people like meraco, it's been positive and encouraging.
The moderators are NOT employees of Aspyr, Firaxis or 2K Games. They are "volunteer" moderators who don't seem to have any responsibility to any of the involved companies. The moderators do not seem to have any direct connection or communication with Aspyr/Firaxis/2K Games, they get all their updates from Twitter and other social media just like the rest of us.
Thread:
http://steamcommunity.com/app/289070/discussions/0/364042063110545181/?ctp=6
NOTE: This thread has been heavily edited. Many of the supporting posts have been removed. I preserved a couple screenshots of my post just in case, but I wish I had the whole thing. Maybe some of the other community members can fill in some of the gaps here.
What's happening:
The mods are attacking the Linux community, citing rules violations for expressing support of a Linux port.
We begin, not suprisingly, with the user, meraco. Which you've likely heard of before. This time the mods jump on his bandwagon.
Banned.
This ban really bothers me.
This is what unacceptable developer/publisher support looks like.
A professional troll at work
Several users, myself included, have been banned. Many posts by many more users have been selectively erased to dismantle the consensus of support. None of the [notably anti-Linux] trolls have been banned, however.
The post that got me banned.
My ban notification.
Annnnnd throwing it down the memory hole.
From the 2K Games forum rules:
Quote1. Be a Contributor
The 2K forums host civil discussions on a variety of topics, and we always want to keep the conversation welcoming, inclusive, and a positive experience.
Should people be arguing with mods in general? No. Probably not.
Should mods visibly undermine Linux discussions? No. Probably not.
Should people be banned for respectfully staying on-topic? Again, No. Definitely not.
Moderation is a responsibility, not a position of power to arbitrarily abuse others for political reasons. If we cannot respectfully discuss these abuses in order to reinstate a positive atmosphere, we are only going to continue to be abused.
We've reached out to Aspyr on this issue. This was their reply:
QuoteThank you so much for bringing this to our attention. The last thing we want is for players to feel ostracized. I have forwarded this email to those who monitor our forums and we will be discussing what to do shortly.
Again, thank you so much for your concern for this community. We really do appreciate it!
Thanks again to Aspyr for being Linux champions.
As of writing this we've yet to receive a response from Firaxis or 2K Games.
Notes from liamdawe, the editor
Showing support for Linux games is great, but people like "meraco" should be completely ignored. Do not rise to their apparent trolling by quoting them or replying to them. They and other anti-Linux posters feed on your replies. Just don't rise to them, you make it worse by doing so. The moderators likely would have ignored it if people didn't rise to the trolls.
As for posting "+1", that alone is spam (by Steam's standards) so be sure to reply with more than that.
It's also never a good idea to discuss a moderators actions in public on Steam, as that will obviously have repercussions. Same goes for claiming it's some sort of dictatorship. That goes for any website, not just Steam.
As always, if you want to show support for a Linux port be smart about it. Feel free to use our forum at any time and link developers to it. I won't go around locking them. Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
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I misunderstood you the first time sir, and I apologize. I agree with you and also highly doubt that most devs on Steam are "anti-Linux" as well, it's mostly disinterest, or not feeling a port would be financially feasible for their company, or just lack of communication I assume.
I personally think that there are maybe some who are indeed "anti-Linux", or at the very least their moderators are, but as I said I believe them to be an extreme minority, and those sorts of companies and moderators need to be brought to the attention of Linux gamers (outside of Steam forums of course as not to violate Steam forum rules) so they can make informed purchasing decisions when it comes to purchasing games on Steam. That's why I think this article is ok, as it is bringing awareness to the community, even if you or I don't agree with the content of the article or post, it is bringing a certain situation to our attention and I appreciate that.
You are 100% correct Tuubi, sorry I misunderstood sir, yes the market is different now that Linux is a commercially viable gaming platform. And I hope it continues to strengthen it's place in the market as time goes on. Viva La Linux! :)
Let me repeat this: 1) Users cannot see what moderators do, the actual ban reasons, warnings and bans sent from moderators, etc.
Meraco has not been ignored. Please do not assume what moderators do or do not do. You cannot see what we see or what we do.
Second --- Noone was banned for expressing intent to support a developer. I repeat: Noone was banned for endorsing a linux port, +1 posts, or anything like that. People were given bans either 1) as private messages, the bans which were overturned or 2) because they broke other rules (shaming users, insulting, openly discussing moderation, all rules which are set by valve).
Please stop spreading this false narrative that people were banned for advocating for a linux port. It's simply not true; people were banned only for breaking rules set by valve (not the gamehub), and none were banned for +1 posts or posts advocating for linux. We are not biased against linux users; I *am* a linux user, and have exclusively been so for many years. If any moderators were biased against linux users, I would be fighting for the linux community on the frontline, but this simply isn't the case here. Period.
Sorry to have to nit-pick about one point, but I gotta inform you, not everyone who uses Linux does so by choice. Many people in first world nations, yes, but certainly not everyone.
First of all, Windows isn't even translated into languages spoken in countries that would be too poor for Microsoft to bother selling software to. Charities make use of Linux a lot as well. I've heard of some educational charities in Africa who make heavy use of Linux because that donor money is better spent on things like books and clothing and medicine, as opposed to proprietary O/S licences and subscriptions to tech support lines. I wish I could remember the name of the organization that did this... if someone else remembers, I'd appreciate being reminded.
Furthermore, lots of people still get their computers second-hand or even out of the trash, including my best friend, who is homeless. They need to install Linux on these machines to get around the passworded logins, viruses and other crap that often come with Windows machines that were formerly used by random strangers.
Finally, I got my computer from System76, so I've had Linux FORCED on me by my OEM, the bastards!!! </sarcasm> Sure, I made the choice to switch to Arch (literally the day I unboxed it, heheheh), but technically Linux (as in the kernel itself) was always a part of my computer since day one.
@Hwkiller:
I get what global moderation is like, too. Not quite on the scale of something as huge as Steam, mind you, but I did it for a few years on a rather well-populated fan site. I consulted with my colleagues on staff-only boards, helped form and shape policy, banned a few morons, got a feeling for what the politics can be like. Totally been there, man, and my hat goes off to you for having the patience for doing this on Steam, of all places! Whatever you're taking for stress, I want some of it, too. :)
That being said, please try to think of things from a normal user's perspective, which I'm sure we both can agree is a less informed perspective than a moderator's perspective. It's cool to know that you and your fellow staff are aware of Meraco, and I very much appreciate you disclosing that much to us, but if anyone is getting the assumption that you're doing nothing, it doesn't come from absolutely nowhere. Where it comes from is by just observing Meraco traipsing around every game's forum scot-free, with no big red menacing (Banned) tag next to his name, while the bans keep rolling in for other people who have been much less inciteful to others by comparison.
Sure, normal users don't see what you're doing, fair enough, but at least give them some credit in that they can deduce what you're not doing through their own experiences in the community and the inconsistencies they observe in moderation. People have a perfectly psychologically explainable reason for jumping to conclusions, here. Meraco doesn't even have a hint of a wet noodle ever having been lashed across his back, while those who challenge his opinion get banned for technicalities and harmless criticism.
Also, that rule you mentioned? That one where moderation can't be questioned? Come, now. I'm sure that rule was meant to be applied with a very heavy understanding of discretion. Speaking from experience here, I highly recommend you check with your higher-ups on exactly what is meant by that rule, for context and clarity, because that rule is very vaguely and broadly written, and therefore by its very nature makes it easily abusable by anyone who would want to take advantage of those obvious flaws in its wording.
Let's recap what happened. The author of this post was literally banned for merely stating that they were "unhappy" with how the moderation is going. It was ONE LINE of opinion that's harmless to all but the thinnest of skinned, used as a closing thought at the end of a frustrated but still respectfully-worded rant about the unfairness of being discriminated against for the crime of contributing to science. If you're a fellow Linux user, I insist that you re-read that post in full instead of skipping right to the end where the infraction was made, because I guarantee you'll be downright touched by the passion that went into it.
As I've stated earlier, I have my doubts that this rule was intended to be applied so broadly and with such a "letter of the law" attitude behind it. However, if I am wrong, and that is the way it goes, then it is simply a bad rule. Period. I know I'm possibly risking my own neck by saying this to you personally, Hwkiller, but for a global moderator on a network as large as Steam, I was kind of hoping you would appreciate that there are many bigger fish for you guys to be frying than people who respectfully state they're unhappy with your colleagues.
I know your job is a pain in the ass, trust me, I really do, but the moment you start thinking everyone you're moderating is just there to piss you off, you gotta take a break and think about things for a moment, stop going on automatic for a bit, you know what I'm saying? These are normal human beings you're dealing with. Given the circumstances and the poor quality of communication they're faced with, plus considering the fact that a very large number of people on Steam live in democratized countries, it's only natural that people are going to question and criticize leaders when they believe them to be doing a poor job. We live in a world where some people aren't afraid to get their asses kicked by the police or even the military for voicing an opinion. Given that perspective, it would probably be wiser not to expect people on the Internet to somehow fall into line more easily, given that all they're risking by comparison is having their talking privileges taken away from them on 0.00000000000000000000000000000000001% of the entire Internet.
Before anyone corrects me, I know it wasn't a global who did this ban, I'm just a bit... unhappy... that these bans are being defended by one, rather than seeing an attempt being made at grasping both the context and the complete lack of severity present in this particular situation. Trust me, there are much worse ways people can voice their opinions on Steam, some of my own shitposting being great examples.
ohgodispentwaytoomuchtimeonthisplzhelpsendcookies
Last edited by Ryblade on 23 December 2016 at 9:51 pm UTC
Isn't it great though that the only operating system available to these unfortunate souls happens to be the best one as well? Silver lining and all that.
And yeah, I think it's pretty awesome, too. I've got all these fantasy scenarios in my head of the world's poor rising up and taking over the world with Linux. Weed may be at least partly to blame for that.
EDIT: Oh for fuck's sakes, why do I always have the luck of my tl;dr posts ending up at the bottom of comment pages. Everyone go back and look and stuff! Or don't. :D
Last edited by Ryblade on 23 December 2016 at 10:22 pm UTC
This is what I am expecting from someone who claims to be a moderator.Arrgh. This topic feeds my anger. I'm outta here :/
Last edited by crt0mega on 23 December 2016 at 10:32 pm UTC
I read every word of your previous post, and I appreciate your well reasoned and eloquent argument. I have to say I am on the same page as you sir. Things are not as black and white as some like to believe. Again, great post, cheers!
Thanks for the explanation, I understand. It just gets a little bit frustrating to see one guy spamming the same things over and over, being incendiary and then others getting banned due to the fallout. I've tried having a discussion with the guy but quickly realised I was going round in circles and was being baited, I often see others trying unsuccessfully to have a positive discussion which inevitably leads nowhere. I am glad its not being ignored, as its been going on for a long time and said user has built up quite a notoriety. Happy Holidays!
Last edited by MintedGamer on 24 December 2016 at 7:05 pm UTC
Aspyr, please port Civilization VI to Linux
Also I have a couple threads in the Steam forums on this topic. The link below is the one in the Civilization VI steam forum.
Steam thread for Civ VI Linux port petition
Last edited by Joeyboots80 on 29 December 2016 at 8:11 am UTC