ZeniMax are flexing their legal muscles towards DoomRL

Apparently it's not that bad, they might get away by just changing some names on the website - the game itself is not mentioned, according to RPS.

Quotetrying to shit it down

I think you should keep that in the title. Because they are trying to shit on it.

Lets all note here that it isn't economically viable for them to port their games to Linux, yet it is economically viable for them to go threaten people that have no money with lawsuits.

Well the title was quite on-point, even if it was an hilariously bad typo :D

Quoting: reaVerLets all note here that it isn't economically viable for them to port their games to Linux, yet it is economically viable for them to go threaten people that have no money with lawsuits.

While I am in no way supporting Zenimax here, and dont agree with their behaviour. I believe this is a case of a rock and a hard place; in order to maintain trademarks on things you have to actively use and critically take steps to prevent its use by other parties. So while DoomRL may not pose any threat to Zenimax by not defending the trademark they potentially down the line open themselves up to others who could be a threat being able to use the trademark as they would be able to prove that Zenimax wasnt actively protecting it.


Source: My Memory of something I read; Dont quote me; Not a lawyer!

I mean, it says right there that they just have to change meta-data tags and names and such. Why not? They can just write D**m or something instead, big deal.

They aren't trying to shut the project down. They are trying to protect their trademarks. This is compulsory under US trademark law. If you do not protect your trademarks, and other people use them in an unconnected and unauthorized fashion, your trademark can become a generic term.

They are not demanding he take the site and project down. They are demanding he remove their trademarks.

Quoting: buschapThey aren't trying to shut the project down. They are trying to protect their trademarks. This is compulsory under US trademark law. If you do not protect your trademarks, and other people use them in an unconnected and unauthorized fashion, your trademark can become a generic term.

They are not demanding he take the site and project down. They are demanding he remove their trademarks.

That effectively shuts it down. The entire project is entirely based around Doom as a fan project.

I saw the word Zenimax and got giddy for a second thinking Hell had maybe froze over and they were bringing games to Linux then read the rest of it. This is not the news I was looking for. As long as they are only asking the guy remove trademarks and aren't trying to shut his games down I can abide but anything more and their just bullies.

Zenimax are the one responsible for degrading quake live over the years. The game was originally a plugin for firefox, and was compatible with mac and linux. When zenimax took over ID software, it end up with a bad launcher instead of a plugin, no more playable in a browser, then then they add noob physics for beginner, new unbalance and useless weapon, then they removed the classic voice from the game "humiliation" "you are tied for the lead" "impressive" "two frags in two seconds, excellent", and after that they dropped linux and mac, and to screw the game to the end, they removed the quake launcher and made quake live steam only, and removed all the benefits you had from premium membership, to finally make the free to play a 10€ game with 0 support and the community has to do all the work.

Next goal seems to be definitly ruining quake fair and balanced gameplay with quake champions (mix of overwatch and quake). They are the one responsible for no more linux support and no more linux/mac games from ID software. If zenimax did not exist we would definitly have a linux version for the last DOOM on day 1.

Zenimax has turned ID software into a ennemy of creativity. While in the past they were trully pionneer of open source and cross platform games.

I hate them. Just because they are not creative and can't make money of an indie game they have to put pressure on them, instead of helping the guy working on a original reboot of their very aging license.

Quoting: ajgpWhile I am in no way supporting Zenimax here, and dont agree with their behaviour. I believe this is a case of a rock and a hard place; in order to maintain trademarks on things you have to actively use and critically take steps to prevent its use by other parties. So while DoomRL may not pose any threat to Zenimax by not defending the trademark they potentially down the line open themselves up to others who could be a threat being able to use the trademark as they would be able to prove that Zenimax wasnt actively protecting it.

Source: My Memory of something I read; Dont quote me; Not a lawyer!

So let me source my logic:
Scrolls, doom and there was some other thing they were going after... are english words in the english dictionary. Yet zenimax seeks to claim them as trademarks? Not only that, they go after the guy who respects the trademark (he made a doom game) rather than slapping the name doom on a completely different title. Yet they would have to spend time on this, a 17 year old game, to protect their trademark? That doesn't sound very logical to me.

Then the costs of them going after a no name developer, it's just not sane. If they have that much money to burn through then a Linux version should be a trivial matter.

The violation of the trademark, though with no commercial motive, is so blatantly obvious that they can't afford to ignore it (if you ignore trademark violations you risk losing rights to the trademark and it ending up in the public domain). I can't really fault Zenimax for this. There isn't really anything stopping the game/site from continuing, but all violations of the trademark would have to be removed. You could still mention that the game is inspired by Doom with a disclaimer about rights to the game Doom being owned by Zenimax.

Of course, this doesn't mean there aren't plenty of other things that I can fault Zenimax for (like sucking all the life out of Id).


Last edited by CFWhitman on 2 December 2016 at 3:17 pm UTC

Quoting: ajgp

Quoting: reaVerLets all note here that it isn't economically viable for them to port their games to Linux, yet it is economically viable for them to go threaten people that have no money with lawsuits.

While I am in no way supporting Zenimax here, and dont agree with their behaviour. I believe this is a case of a rock and a hard place; in order to maintain trademarks on things you have to actively use and critically take steps to prevent its use by other parties. So while DoomRL may not pose any threat to Zenimax by not defending the trademark they potentially down the line open themselves up to others who could be a threat being able to use the trademark as they would be able to prove that Zenimax wasnt actively protecting it.


Source: My Memory of something I read; Dont quote me; Not a lawyer!

Quoting: buschapThey aren't trying to shut the project down. They are trying to protect their trademarks. This is compulsory under US trademark law. If you do not protect your trademarks, and other people use them in an unconnected and unauthorized fashion, your trademark can become a generic term.

This serious misconception needs to DIE FAST:
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/11/ubuntus-trademark-folly-fueled-by-misunderstanding-of-law-eff-says/
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/11/trademark-law-does-not-require-companies-tirelessly-censor-internet (via the previous link)

While the risk of having one's trademark falling into the generic use exists, it is fairly limited, and completely unrelated to this kind of trademark enforcement.

Example:you say a FPS, a 3D Game, a video game, not a DOOM, an Arena or a Pong, right? (although it is debatable in the last case because of those "Pong games", and in the first with DOOM-like; Arena Wasn't a very good example either). FPS is really the generic term here, regardless of the "DOOM clone" term, which might be generic, whereas DOOM isn't.

I guess I'll rest my case with that post :D

Those greedy idiots.
Remember: Zenimax is NOT id software, and they will never be. Hell, they even sued John Carmack.
id is dead. Zenimax looted id's IPs and their community, to the extent that they ripped off Brutal DooM with their latest installment. Granted, it is a good ripoff, but those guys would do any stupid thing for the sake of money.


Last edited by omer666 on 2 December 2016 at 3:47 pm UTC

Quoting: liamdaweWell the title was quite on-point, even if it was an hilariously bad typo :D

Ah man, you fixed it! :-(

Quoting: MyeulCThis serious misconception needs to DIE FAST:
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/11/ubuntus-trademark-folly-fueled-by-misunderstanding-of-law-eff-says/
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/11/trademark-law-does-not-require-companies-tirelessly-censor-internet (via the previous link)

Im happy to be corrected, as I say it was only based on information that I could remember. I will of course read the links when I have a bit of spare time

next doomsday site and soft has to be renamed?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought this stuff only tended to happened when it involved a commercial product with 'demonstrative value'? If the game is free it's not even really commercial, yeah?

We would have had the new Doom with Vulkan support without Zenimax, a Crystal Giant with a very little vision.