For those of you interested in seeing The Witness [Official Site] on Linux, it seems Jonathan Blow mentioned it again recently in a livestream in response to a viewer question. It's hard to argue with what he's saying.
You can see the video here, skip to 27:10.
I took some time to listen and note down what he said if you don't want to/can't watch it. He starts off by explaining the rough time they had when it came out on Windows and then moves into talking about Linux directly:
QuoteOn Linux, the situation is way worse. Few people will buy the game, we know that because we've sold games on Linux before. The percentage of people who have support problems is gonna go way up, relevant to any other platform. So basically, we're just inviting misery to ourselves for people to complain about problems, and for us to the fix the problems. It's not worth it for this game. Braid we got away with it as it has a much simpler rendering engine. Porting that to Linux, we still had some issues, but for the most part is was alright. Maybe someday in the future if we have a Vulkan renderer and if Vulkan runs well on Linux, and if Vulkan doesn't destroy itself with driver shenanigans then in that kind of case me might be open to doing it, but an OpenGL version forget it.
Myself and Jon had a bit of a falling out a while back over something trivial, so he still has our @gamingonlinux account blocked on Twitter. I fully respect him though and I won't argue against his points here, as I think he's mostly right.
We are still a small market, growing yes, but still small and not worth the time for everyone just yet.
Our drivers are certainly better than they were a year or two ago, but they still have ways to go. Remember, I do speak to developers regularly about the issues they face, and OpenGL bugs or low performance issues are always top of their lists. Thankfully, with more high profile ports arriving on Linux like Deus Ex, Mad Max, Tomb Raider and more, driver developers have more demanding Linux ports to test their games against.
It is really interesting to hear that he's interested in Vulkan, so it's a really nice surprise. He's not saying they will do it, but it's possible if they do get a Vulkan rendering engine in future.
Thanks for sending me the link, Till! Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
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They are using their own engine?
Yes. Jonathan Blow as explained in detail why they did, in one of his many videos. I can't remember what the reason was exactly, and I can't remember which video. I'm pretty sure he advocates that small teams always roll with their own engine.
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They are using their own engine?
Yes. Jonathan Blow as explained in detail why they did, in one of his many videos. I can't remember what the reason was exactly, and I can't remember which video. I'm pretty sure he advocates that small teams always roll with their own engine.
That's good, I like when developers make their own engines. But it sounds like they don't use Vulkan yet.
Last edited by Shmerl on 26 Jan 2017 at 10:18 pm UTC
1 Likes, Who?
That's great news, I was sadly looking at that game recently, mourning the fact it never came to Linux.
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That's great news, I was sadly looking at that game recently, mourning the fact it never came to Linux.
Don't hold your breath.
They don't have a Vulkan renderer yet and he did not imply that it is on its way.
3 Likes, Who?
We might be small, but there's a reason that so many indies support Linux - 1% of 14M active users is still a bloody huge number. It might not make sense for the Ubisoft's and EA's of this world, but for an indie, opening the door to a market of an additional 10k+ gamers, many of whom will rate you higher because there's no EA or Ubisoft... that's usually good sense.
Blow's comment about Linux gamers not buying his products is bizarre and annoying, considering his one title, Braid, was not only part of a Humble Indie Bundle (the first?) which had a huge number of Linux gamers participating, but it also pre-dates Steam on Linux, so he'd hardly be in a position to say "Linux users don't buy our games".
I can honestly say I've spent more (waaaay more) on games since moving to Linux and solely buying Linux games than I did as a Windows gamer. I hunted for bargains as a Windows gamer, but commonly pay full price as a Linux gamer - Deus Ex, Stellaris, Tomb Raider and many others. I've had bargains of course, but I don't hunt them down anymore.
Loved Braid though and despite his dramatics about the state of Linux, I'd still support him if he ever changes his mind.
Blow's comment about Linux gamers not buying his products is bizarre and annoying, considering his one title, Braid, was not only part of a Humble Indie Bundle (the first?) which had a huge number of Linux gamers participating, but it also pre-dates Steam on Linux, so he'd hardly be in a position to say "Linux users don't buy our games".
I can honestly say I've spent more (waaaay more) on games since moving to Linux and solely buying Linux games than I did as a Windows gamer. I hunted for bargains as a Windows gamer, but commonly pay full price as a Linux gamer - Deus Ex, Stellaris, Tomb Raider and many others. I've had bargains of course, but I don't hunt them down anymore.
Loved Braid though and despite his dramatics about the state of Linux, I'd still support him if he ever changes his mind.
11 Likes, Who?
Maybe someday in the future if we have a Vulkan renderer and if Vulkan runs well on Linux, and if Vulkan doesn't destroy itself with driver shenanigans then in that kind of case me might be open to doing it"Maybe someday in the future" followed by three "ifs". Better not get your hopes high on this one.
7 Likes, Who?
hardpenguin 26 Jan 2017
Not sure why he cares so much because surely it won't be him doing the port (Knockout Games was hired to port The Witness to Xbox One).
Of course I realise that offering technical and monetary support for the potential Linux port for years to come might be somewhat problematic.
I respect Jonathan Blow and his work a lot so obviously if one day he will decide to release his latest game to Linux, I will be glad to buy it!
Of course I realise that offering technical and monetary support for the potential Linux port for years to come might be somewhat problematic.
I respect Jonathan Blow and his work a lot so obviously if one day he will decide to release his latest game to Linux, I will be glad to buy it!
2 Likes, Who?
Myself and Jon had a bit of a falling out a while back over something trivial, so he still has our @gamingonlinux account blocked on Twitter.
That's completely reasonable. Jonathan Blow is up there with Gary Newman in terms of being a total ass, especially in regards to Linux.
1 Likes, Who?
Maybe someday in the future if they port the game and if the port is good and if there will be a huge discount on the old (by then) title and if I actually like the game, then maybe I will buy it.
;-D
;-D
2 Likes, Who?
@shmerl
I disagree. I don't like when people are reinventing the wheel. He could have used existing engine. He could have used engine that simply supports linux. That is the price of having your own engine. You have to do everyhing yourselve.
That's good, I like when developers make their own engines. But it sounds like they don't use Vulkan yet.
I disagree. I don't like when people are reinventing the wheel. He could have used existing engine. He could have used engine that simply supports linux. That is the price of having your own engine. You have to do everyhing yourselve.
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@shmerl
That's good, I like when developers make their own engines. But it sounds like they don't use Vulkan yet.
I disagree. I don't like when people are reinventing the wheel.
Having your own engine, you can do whatever you want, and design it however you want. Doing it yourself is a good price to pay, if you want to have full control over it.
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@shmerl
That's good, I like when developers make their own engines. But it sounds like they don't use Vulkan yet.
I disagree. I don't like when people are reinventing the wheel.
Having your own engine, you can do whatever you want, and design it however you want. Doing it yourself is a good price to pay, if you want to have full control over it.
And you don't have to pay licensing costs on top of that :)
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Myself and Jon had a bit of a falling out a while back over something trivial, so he still has our @gamingonlinux account blocked on Twitter.
That's completely reasonable. Jonathan Blow is up there with Gary Newman in terms of being a total ass, especially in regards to Linux.
That's pretty harsh. Blow often speaks negatively about Linux, but I've rarely if ever heard him be insultingly disrespectful. Newman on the other hand is a proper muppet, who appears to enjoy trolling.
1 Likes, Who?
We might be small, but there's a reason that so many indies support Linux - 1% of 14M active users is still a bloody huge number. It might not make sense for the Ubisoft's and EA's of this world, but for an indie, opening the door to a market of an additional 10k+ gamers, many of whom will rate you higher because there's no EA or Ubisoft...
Also quite a few indies just use Linux as their own main OS, so they actually better support it than Windows. ’Cause, StackOverflow indicates, Linux is a primary OS for (at least) work for over ~20 % of programmers out there. And a lot of indies are just some of those programmers who, at one point, decide to start writing game. ;-)
1 Likes, Who?
and if Vulkan doesn't destroy itself with driver shenanigans
We just can hope and wait ...
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On the bright side (for me), I doubt I would have purchased it anyway ... just not the sort of game that interests me. On the very, very bright side, I won't have to feel guilty that I don't want to buy someone's Linux port.
And can we start calling him Johnathan Blows,now? Too easy?
And can we start calling him Johnathan Blows,now? Too easy?
1 Likes, Who?
@shmerl
That's good, I like when developers make their own engines. But it sounds like they don't use Vulkan yet.
I disagree. I don't like when people are reinventing the wheel.
Having your own engine, you can do whatever you want, and design it however you want. Doing it yourself is a good price to pay, if you want to have full control over it.
@JudasIscariot
It is a funny thing when somebody mentions cost of a gaming engine. Engine developers do not eat dirt. It costs to develop an engine (and to add more features). If you write your own engine it will costs you also to develop your own engine, and during this process you may end up with a bad product if you do not know what you're doing.
You could even pay more for your own engine if you are not careful.
I heard that game engines do not have to pricey. I heard you have to pay for some engines when your game exceeds some earning level. I see nothing wrong in paying for an engine if the price is right.
@Shmerl
I understand when high-end games use their own engines (for example witcher 3). Triple A game requirements are high. If game engine was not optimized for the game, the performance would be poor. However there is no need for control for simple games, or games that use simple mechanics. Even though I have not played the witness I suspect there is nothing it that cannot be realized using an existing engine. I find no necessity for control here. That is why I find the witness author complaints completely missed.
Sorry for the long post and my bad English.
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I understand when high-end games use their own engines (for example witcher 3). Triple A game requirements are high. If game engine was not optimized for the game, the performance would be poor. However there is no need for control for simple games, or games that use simple mechanics. Even though I have not played the witness I suspect there is nothing it that cannot be realized using an existing engine. I find no necessity for control here. That is why I find the witness author complaints completely missed.
There can be multiple reasons to make your own engine. Educational for instance. Making your own engine helps getting experience in graphics programming. If you just use others' engines, you don't really learn it in depth.
Last edited by Shmerl on 27 Jan 2017 at 5:04 pm UTC
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@shmerl
That's good, I like when developers make their own engines. But it sounds like they don't use Vulkan yet.
I disagree. I don't like when people are reinventing the wheel.
Having your own engine, you can do whatever you want, and design it however you want. Doing it yourself is a good price to pay, if you want to have full control over it.
@JudasIscariot
It is a funny thing when somebody mentions cost of a gaming engine. Engine developers do not eat dirt. It costs to develop an engine (and to add more features). If you write your own engine it will costs you also to develop your own engine, and during this process you may end up with a bad product if you do not know what you're doing.
You could even pay more for your own engine if you are not careful.
I heard that game engines do not have to pricey. I heard you have to pay for some engines when your game exceeds some earning level. I see nothing wrong in paying for an engine if the price is right.
Sorry for the long post and my bad English.
There's nothing wrong with developing your own engine either :) I only raised the money issue because it can be a factor when deciding whether to make your own engine or use what is already out there :)
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