In May it will be five years since the Carmageddon: Reincarnation Kickstarter. Linux support was a stretch goal they reached and we still have nothing to show for it.
Stainless Games Ltd are one of the major developers who made me lose faith in, not only crowdfunding but, generally trusting developers on what they say at all.
Nearly five years ago on May 24 2012, the developers promised Linux support for Carmageddon: Reincarnation if they stretched their Kickstarter funding out of ordinary people like you and me from $400,000 to $600,000!
That may seem like a lot, but $200,000 extra to produce a Linux and Mac version is...yeah insanity. Even with those extra funds, it has nearly been five years and all we’ve had is either silence or idiotic remarks from one of their team on Twitter (who I had to block).
The last we heard from that particular person is noted here in an article from February 2016 where we were supposed to get “a very clear statement on that in the near future”. Yeah, that happened — not.
The problem here, for me, is that they later did a revamp of the title called Carmageddon: Max Damage. This was to fix some problems, boost sales again and port it to consoles.
Carmageddon: Max Damage also never made it to Linux.
Fun fact, they actually released a trailer where they just run over a ton of penguins, make from that what you will:
YouTube videos require cookies, you must accept their cookies to view. View cookie preferences.
Direct Link
Direct Link
And now, they have announced that they are doing yet another Carmageddon title.
So, I contacted them via email and Twitter and guess what — no response.
Some developers are great, other developers like Stainless Games Ltd don’t deserve a penny from you. Sadly, this is a common case with crowdfunding and Linux and there are plenty of other examples. I actually keep a Wiki Page for this very purpose.
It's sad, very sad. I didn't realize it had been so long until their Twitter post about a new game. I looked it up and was really quite shocked.
Companies like this taint the waters for other more legitimate developers. This causes a knock-on effect for others, as I know plenty of Linux gamers who have been burnt by not only this Kickstarter, but others too. I myself got burnt and stopped funding anything on Kickstarter for about two years due to situations like this. Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
Some you may have missed, popular articles from the last month:
The comments on this article are closed.
Ugh... Don't remind me.
I originally supported them as they seemed to be cool people (I liked their update videos and stuff). But yeah, it's easy to get the wrong impression.
I originally supported them as they seemed to be cool people (I liked their update videos and stuff). But yeah, it's easy to get the wrong impression.
1 Likes, Who?
I know it's more complicated and not this black and white but from my perspective it seems like it's always the same story, a lot of the problems come about because they see the Linux / Mac versions as something to be "tacked on at the end". No one gives them much thought until it is time to start and only then do they realise that "oops we didn't use something that's multi platform friendly" OR "Oh thats going to require way to much work".
You don't for example promise to build someone a two story house and only think about what's required for the second story when you have completed the first!
You don't for example promise to build someone a two story house and only think about what's required for the second story when you have completed the first!
0 Likes
Well, Linux support is always the first "feature" dropped, since it's a relatively small userbase to upset.
I never kickstart projects anymore, I just help funding if there is a working alpha/beta build out, or if it's a developer I do trust to deliver (Obsidian, inXile).
Obsidian even made it happen and told that the port has not been profitable. And they're about to do a port for their next game as well... nice of them :-).
Last edited by STiAT on 20 January 2017 at 1:27 pm UTC
I never kickstart projects anymore, I just help funding if there is a working alpha/beta build out, or if it's a developer I do trust to deliver (Obsidian, inXile).
Obsidian even made it happen and told that the port has not been profitable. And they're about to do a port for their next game as well... nice of them :-).
Last edited by STiAT on 20 January 2017 at 1:27 pm UTC
0 Likes
RussianNeuroMancer Jan 20, 2017
Thanks you for the reminder - refund requested.
0 Likes
So they're not just incompetent liars, they're also puss-laden assholes, Ok, well, I can forgive them being sub-par developers. I can even get over adding another lying game publisher to my growing voodoo doll collection. But that video? Well, lines were crossed, weren't they. Perhaps we should heed the higher call of Bugs Bunny when he said, "This means war." To whit:
Draw upon that creativity you know you have and retaliate with parody and satire, cartoons and videos.
If you own any of their titles, give those titles bad reviews and encourage sympathizers to do the same.
Follow the Steam curator: Broken Linux Promises, and urge others to do the same.
Join the Steam group: Anti-Consumer Practices Report and report this game to them, citing this article.
Reach out to and unite with any and all Mac users (who were also screwed) to increase the ruckus.
Reach out to your Windows friends to join you, not because they so much care about the affairs of Linux, but because they are able to recognize arrogant, unscrupulous con-men and be outraged as well.
Finally, I don't recommend stealing their game, but --- steal their game.
Last edited by Nanobang on 20 January 2017 at 3:01 pm UTC
Draw upon that creativity you know you have and retaliate with parody and satire, cartoons and videos.
If you own any of their titles, give those titles bad reviews and encourage sympathizers to do the same.
Follow the Steam curator: Broken Linux Promises, and urge others to do the same.
Join the Steam group: Anti-Consumer Practices Report and report this game to them, citing this article.
Reach out to and unite with any and all Mac users (who were also screwed) to increase the ruckus.
Reach out to your Windows friends to join you, not because they so much care about the affairs of Linux, but because they are able to recognize arrogant, unscrupulous con-men and be outraged as well.
Finally, I don't recommend stealing their game, but --- steal their game.
Last edited by Nanobang on 20 January 2017 at 3:01 pm UTC
0 Likes
So if these guys went out of business, that'd be Karmageddon.
5 Likes, Who?
Mountain Man Jan 20, 2017
Quoting: ZaxthThis is why, when I consider pledging for a Kickstarter, I have to remind myself: The moment money changes hands and the receipient is under no contractual obligation, then you as a consumer, loose all power over them.I've been saying that for a long time. It's a donation, not a pre-order.
No projects on Kickstarter have to deliver to you what they promise, it's like a charity, you can't demand anything from them after giving them money.
1 Likes, Who?
Mountain Man Jan 20, 2017
Quoting: apocalyptechIt would be extremely difficult if not impossible for someone to hold a Kickstarter project accountable to these terms to the point that they effectively offer zero protection for the consumer.Quoting: ZaxthNo projects on Kickstarter have to deliver to you what they promise, it's like a charity, you can't demand anything from them after giving them money.That's... actually not the case. From the Kickstarter TOS at https://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use :
QuoteIf a creator is unable to complete their project and fulfill rewards, they’ve failed to live up to the basic obligations of this agreement. To right this, they must make every reasonable effort to find another way of bringing the project to the best possible conclusion for backers. A creator in this position has only remedied the situation and met their obligations to backers if:Now, I'm not sure how often or successfully that kind of thing has been challenged in court, but you ARE entitled to refunds if a creator defaults on their obligations.
* they post an update that explains what work has been done, how funds were used, and what prevents them from finishing the project as planned;
* they work diligently and in good faith to bring the project to the best possible conclusion in a timeframe that’s communicated to backers;
* they’re able to demonstrate that they’ve used funds appropriately and made every reasonable effort to complete the project as promised;
* they’ve been honest, and have made no material misrepresentations in their communication to backers; and
* they offer to return any remaining funds to backers who have not received their reward (in proportion to the amounts pledged), or else explain how those funds will be used to complete the project in some alternate form.
The creator is solely responsible for fulfilling the promises made in their project. If they’re unable to satisfy the terms of this agreement, they may be subject to legal action by backers.
0 Likes
My lesson on Kickstarter was Through The Woods. Antagonist seemed for real, even had a Linux demo on there. Then the demo gets removed. Then a year goes by, the game comes out, and we get a half-assed excuse that sadly their tools aren't Linux compatible. Now, they are apparently working on a console port, meanwhile I have a useless Windows key.
1 Likes, Who?
apocalyptech Jan 21, 2017
Quoting: Mountain ManI've been saying that for a long time. It's a donation, not a pre-order.
Quoting: Mountain ManIt would be extremely difficult if not impossible for someone to hold a Kickstarter project accountable to these terms to the point that they effectively offer zero protection for the consumer.
This kind of scenario is exactly why mechanisms like small claims courts exist, and if you don't think that that kind of action can be effective, you've clearly never dealt with it. I'm sure there's been, overall, very little actual action in courts about this kind of thing, but Kickstarter's TOS is quite clear: creators are obligated to provide refunds when they don't provide the promised rewards. You're welcome to believe that funding via Kickstarter is a "donation," but you're absolutely wrong. (Unless, of course, you're backing at a level which doesn't actually promise anything.)
0 Likes
Patreon
PayPal
See more from me