As usual, the wider media and people who like to generate clicky headlines like to claim Steam Machines are dead in the water. The truth is though, that it's not quite so simple.
First up is a nicely presented video from The Linux Gamer that's worth a watch:
Now onto my current thoughts on the matter.
Valve have recently hired new people to work on Mesa directly, which are our open source graphics drivers. We've already seen quite a bit of work done on Mesa thanks to Valve, like increased performance, supporting higher OpenGL versions and Vulkan support and this is set to continue.
Valve also only a few days ago released SteamVR in Beta for Linux, so in future a Steam Machine should work out of the box with the Vive headset.
Valve aren't stupid. They aren't about to stop developing Steam Machines. They are clearly still heavily invested in Linux to actually pay people to make our open source graphics drivers better. I imagine their business folks are keeping a very close eye on movements inside Microsoft for how their Windows Store will progress. That is still a very real threat to Steam, especially if more developers choose to release their games on it. In reality, any store is a threat to Valve, but one tied directly to the biggest operating system around in terms of use, Valve would be idiotic to move away from SteamOS and run off into the sunset with Microsoft.
Last year we saw the largest number of AAA/bigger budget games released on Linux, ever. We had Rocket League, Total War: WARHAMMER, XCOM 2, Tomb Raider, Deus Ex: Mankind Divided, Mad Max and so on. That's only some of the major releases quickly off the top of my head, but we had tons of other high quality game releases last year too.
This year has already started extremely well for us with Civilization VI and HITMAN both already out and with DiRT Rally to follow soon. We then also have Torment: Tides of Numenera, Sudden Strike 4, Dungeons 3, Cossacks 3, Total War: SHOGUN 2 (not yet confirmed, but it looks likely) and probably many others.
Aside from games, we also have Vulkan which will see much greater traction this year. Vulkan will help to level out the performance difference for Linux vs Windows in terms of game performance. We've already seen what it can do for some games, but in time Vulkan should do better and better as developers learn more about the ins and outs of the newer API and the big games engines incorporate better support overall.
Part of the problem was that expectation was just too high, but I've always maintained that Steam Machines were never going to be an overnight success. The odds were heavily stacked against them, and yet they have still given Linux gaming plenty of wins with tons more games, better drivers, more users and so on. For those wondering about my "more users" comment, remember that the Steam Hardware Survey percentage for operating system use is a ratio, so even when the percentage drops the overall user count is probably higher due to Steam's constant growth in terms of overall user-base.
As for SteamOS itself, it will be a constant evolution that goes hand in hand with all the work Valve is doing on the Steam store directly. All the improvements they do to Steam do directly benefit SteamOS. Things like better searching tools, better recommendations, requiring developers to use proper in-game screenshots, the constant and ever improving Steam Controller (and proper config support for more gamepads) and so on. These are just some examples of things that perhaps people aren't thinking about in relation to SteamOS and Steam Machines.
Simply put, Steam Machines are not dead. Not selling like hot cakes, sure, but Valve are putting in a lot of effort behind the scenes that the wider media don't bother to look into. Why would they though? Since that wouldn't generate great headlines. Bad news sells, sad, but true.
Right now, I see SteamOS and Steam Machines as being on a temporary hiatus while Valve helps to sort out some of the inner workings to make sure future games actually work well. Progress has been good on that and I'm pretty damn happy with the way things are going right now and you should be too.
What are your current thoughts? Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
First up is a nicely presented video from The Linux Gamer that's worth a watch:
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Now onto my current thoughts on the matter.
Valve have recently hired new people to work on Mesa directly, which are our open source graphics drivers. We've already seen quite a bit of work done on Mesa thanks to Valve, like increased performance, supporting higher OpenGL versions and Vulkan support and this is set to continue.
Valve also only a few days ago released SteamVR in Beta for Linux, so in future a Steam Machine should work out of the box with the Vive headset.
Valve aren't stupid. They aren't about to stop developing Steam Machines. They are clearly still heavily invested in Linux to actually pay people to make our open source graphics drivers better. I imagine their business folks are keeping a very close eye on movements inside Microsoft for how their Windows Store will progress. That is still a very real threat to Steam, especially if more developers choose to release their games on it. In reality, any store is a threat to Valve, but one tied directly to the biggest operating system around in terms of use, Valve would be idiotic to move away from SteamOS and run off into the sunset with Microsoft.
Last year we saw the largest number of AAA/bigger budget games released on Linux, ever. We had Rocket League, Total War: WARHAMMER, XCOM 2, Tomb Raider, Deus Ex: Mankind Divided, Mad Max and so on. That's only some of the major releases quickly off the top of my head, but we had tons of other high quality game releases last year too.
This year has already started extremely well for us with Civilization VI and HITMAN both already out and with DiRT Rally to follow soon. We then also have Torment: Tides of Numenera, Sudden Strike 4, Dungeons 3, Cossacks 3, Total War: SHOGUN 2 (not yet confirmed, but it looks likely) and probably many others.
Aside from games, we also have Vulkan which will see much greater traction this year. Vulkan will help to level out the performance difference for Linux vs Windows in terms of game performance. We've already seen what it can do for some games, but in time Vulkan should do better and better as developers learn more about the ins and outs of the newer API and the big games engines incorporate better support overall.
Part of the problem was that expectation was just too high, but I've always maintained that Steam Machines were never going to be an overnight success. The odds were heavily stacked against them, and yet they have still given Linux gaming plenty of wins with tons more games, better drivers, more users and so on. For those wondering about my "more users" comment, remember that the Steam Hardware Survey percentage for operating system use is a ratio, so even when the percentage drops the overall user count is probably higher due to Steam's constant growth in terms of overall user-base.
As for SteamOS itself, it will be a constant evolution that goes hand in hand with all the work Valve is doing on the Steam store directly. All the improvements they do to Steam do directly benefit SteamOS. Things like better searching tools, better recommendations, requiring developers to use proper in-game screenshots, the constant and ever improving Steam Controller (and proper config support for more gamepads) and so on. These are just some examples of things that perhaps people aren't thinking about in relation to SteamOS and Steam Machines.
Simply put, Steam Machines are not dead. Not selling like hot cakes, sure, but Valve are putting in a lot of effort behind the scenes that the wider media don't bother to look into. Why would they though? Since that wouldn't generate great headlines. Bad news sells, sad, but true.
Right now, I see SteamOS and Steam Machines as being on a temporary hiatus while Valve helps to sort out some of the inner workings to make sure future games actually work well. Progress has been good on that and I'm pretty damn happy with the way things are going right now and you should be too.
What are your current thoughts? Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
Some you may have missed, popular articles from the last month:
The comments on this article are closed.
Aaaand......
...here it comes:
"Microsoft is planning to introduce a new feature to Windows 10 that will allow a user to prevent installation of desktop apps. The latest Windows Insider build comes with an option that allows users to enable app installations only from the Windows Store."
https://tech.slashdot.org/story/17/02/27/1435207/microsoft-to-introduce-a-new-feature-in-windows-10-which-will-allow-users-to-block-installation-of-desktop-apps
Last edited by Boldos on 27 February 2017 at 5:29 pm UTC
...here it comes:
"Microsoft is planning to introduce a new feature to Windows 10 that will allow a user to prevent installation of desktop apps. The latest Windows Insider build comes with an option that allows users to enable app installations only from the Windows Store."
https://tech.slashdot.org/story/17/02/27/1435207/microsoft-to-introduce-a-new-feature-in-windows-10-which-will-allow-users-to-block-installation-of-desktop-apps
Last edited by Boldos on 27 February 2017 at 5:29 pm UTC
3 Likes, Who?
Quoting: LeopardQuoting: DuckeenieSteam machines are dead in the water simply because most people didn't care enough when Steam created their wall and nobody will if Microsoft do. It's not enough to offer an alternative, especially one that offers a sub-par experience for their demographic. Sadly even if Steam Machines we're better than Windows for gaming it still wouldn't make a blind bit of difference, given history, Linux fans of all people should appreciate that point. Steam Machines need to be an "OMG I have to have that" product before anyone will care enough to buy one.
Sorry to be so negative but I don't do the whole blind faith thing.
First wave of Steam Machines done their job well.I don't think Valve didn't expect them to sale much.It was a sign from Valve,like "I'm so serious"(please not Joker why so serious comments :D ) about this Linux thing.
They did their job of raise their eyebrows and take a look at this by developers and manufacturers side.
If it won't came out,i doubt if we can get this much more quality drivers when compared to old shitty Linux drivers.I know drivers are still an issue but it's way better than before.
So yeah,Steam Machines are dead but they did their job.Sometimes you must lose for a future win and Valve is most likely did the maths before we do.
I'm saying again,it is impossible to expect Linux and SteamOS be succesfull within 3 years against Microsoft and it is working order.
Oh there's is no doubt Valve have helped gaming on Linux along by leaps 'n' bounds. I just don't believe there is a future in Steam machines/SteamOS as a standalone product.
1 Likes, Who?
Comandante Ñoñardo Feb 27, 2017
If Valve really want the sucess of the Steam machines, an special hardware config is needed, like the P$4 has...
SteamOS and all the games must be optimized for that specific hardware config..
I imagine an Steam machine with more than one physical processor:
One processor with its own memory for system.
Another processor with its own memory for games
Another processor for the multimedia like Steam audio, video encoding and decoding,
Another for auxiliary calculus, such as physics...
And perhaps another processor for the calculus needed by any D3D-»OpenGL translation layer...
And timed AAA EXCLUSIVES... Valve MUST give to the average Joe a real reason for to buy this.
SteamOS and all the games must be optimized for that specific hardware config..
I imagine an Steam machine with more than one physical processor:
One processor with its own memory for system.
Another processor with its own memory for games
Another processor for the multimedia like Steam audio, video encoding and decoding,
Another for auxiliary calculus, such as physics...
And perhaps another processor for the calculus needed by any D3D-»OpenGL translation layer...
And timed AAA EXCLUSIVES... Valve MUST give to the average Joe a real reason for to buy this.
1 Likes, Who?
johndoe86x Feb 27, 2017
I wish I was as optimistic as you guys are. While Steam Machines may not be dead, they certainly seem to be in cryogenic sleep.
I think this video needs to be watched to add further details. This is an interview with Valve done in the past few weeks: View video on youtube.com
Skip to 14:46 for talk of Windows 10 and UWP.
This is an interview with Gabe Newell, and he specifically states that he uses Windows 10 and it's "fine". He also noted that he's not worried about Windows 10 becoming a closed platform because other developers have stated that's not what they want.
Gabe Newell: "I don't think [UWP]'s developing any traction."
I have to disagree, I really think it is.
Gabe Newell: "If they build a UWP version-only of Windows, then, yeah, that would be a problem for us."
That's exactly what Microsoft is doing with Windows 10 Cloud. See Google Search: Windows 10 Cloud
However, I don't think it's all gloom and doom. I think that if Microsoft and the Windows Store becomes legitimate competition for Valve, it will really push them to focus even more so on Linux as their gaming operating system of choice.
I think this video needs to be watched to add further details. This is an interview with Valve done in the past few weeks: View video on youtube.com
Skip to 14:46 for talk of Windows 10 and UWP.
This is an interview with Gabe Newell, and he specifically states that he uses Windows 10 and it's "fine". He also noted that he's not worried about Windows 10 becoming a closed platform because other developers have stated that's not what they want.
Gabe Newell: "I don't think [UWP]'s developing any traction."
I have to disagree, I really think it is.
Gabe Newell: "If they build a UWP version-only of Windows, then, yeah, that would be a problem for us."
That's exactly what Microsoft is doing with Windows 10 Cloud. See Google Search: Windows 10 Cloud
However, I don't think it's all gloom and doom. I think that if Microsoft and the Windows Store becomes legitimate competition for Valve, it will really push them to focus even more so on Linux as their gaming operating system of choice.
5 Likes, Who?
Quoting: Alm888Quoting: liamdaweI...don't think you understand how percentages work my friend. A very basic example: 0.8% of 100 million and 0.8% of 115 million is a different number, you know that right? A basic example, but it should make my point very clear.
No thank you, I've got my university education and I am well aware that 0.2% from 1 million is better than 10% from 10000. But it does not change the fact that Linux share is shrinking relative to other OS-es. By the time Linux gained additional 10000 users Windows secured another million, if
I think the two of you are ignoring the elephant, admittedly perhaps just outside the room: The Steam Survey is as far as I know the only measure of Linux usage that has been showing a (percentage) decline. Every other major source purporting to measure Linux usage shows an increase--some a gradual increase, some a quite large increase, but none a decline that I know of. Liam is perhaps forgetting his own article on this subject, which I found quite an eye-opener!
If it weren't for that, I'd pretty much agree with Alm888: An increase in raw numbers which is also a percentage decrease because the other raw numbers are growing faster, is not going to make Linux look more attractive as a platform, and would not represent anything one could really tout as "growth" in Linux.
It just so happens that Linux as an overall platform for personal computing is probably in fact growing, with the Steam survey an outlier. This is a different scenario. And I think chances are good of continued growth. The story of (Desktop) Linux IMO is of an OS which has always had good bare bones, and a main competitor (Windows) which has always given its users reasons to switch, but with lots of little barriers to entry (some artificially created by Microsoft). Over the years, the open source community and certain other actors (such as Valve) have chipped away at the barriers to entry, whether it's user-unfriendly features, lack of polished software available, lack of games, obscurity, difficulty installing or whatever. Some have completely disappeared, some have been shrunk but are still there a bit. Windows for its part has reduced some of its problems (such as instability) but added others (such as spying on you like crazy, reduced compatibility with older Windows software, and, by many accounts, user-unfriendliness). So there is still stuff pushing people away from Windows, and the barriers in the way of jumping ship to Linux are far lower than they used to be, although there are still some (obscurity is still significant, for instance). It's to be expected, then, that a somewhat higher proportion of disgruntled Windows users will be able to jump ship. And this is the real question: Will Linux continue to seep into the desktop space over the next while? If it does, game developers should continue to find it worth developing for even if no more Steam Machines are ever sold, especially as the barriers to cross-platform development seem to be set to continue falling.
(As a side note, the barriers to jumping to Mac remain about the same--expensive hardware--but may be starting to grow a bit IMO. Apple don't seem to care as much about MacOS as they used to, Metal and non-gaming-oriented hardware seem likely to make Macs lag on the game side, and Apple just isn't run by a driven genius any more)
Last edited by Purple Library Guy on 28 February 2017 at 12:36 am UTC
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Quoting: chimpyQuoting: jnriversSo tired of the Vulkan hype train. If games don't get ported properly and continue to use D3D wrappers nothing is going to change. Wake up OpenGL isn't the problem, it's a scapegoat for ignorance. Vulkan is not a magic bullet that suddenly makes gaming on Linux what it should be.
Don't get me wrong Vulkan is the future, it's just not adding anything that wasn't already there.
It's amazing the traction this has gotten.
The problem with your statement is that at this point we've only seen DX9/DX11 -> OGL wrappers. When Feral releases their first DX12 -> Vulkan wrapped game, then we can finally see if the hype is real or not.
No doubt we can expect to see some sort of improvement, still though if there is a layer of code translating the calls from the intended API to another there's going to be a hit.
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Quoting: liamdaweliamdaweQuoting: jnriversSo tired of the Vulkan hype train. If games don't get ported properly and continue to use D3D wrappers nothing is going to change. Wake up OpenGL isn't the problem, it's a scapegoat for ignorance. Vulkan is not a magic bullet that suddenly makes gaming on Linux what it should be.No offence, but you sound like someone who is parroting what I've seen others say without a) ever testing Vulkan and b) just not actually understanding any of the problems of OpenGL (we did have a recent editorial about this, maybe you missed it).
Don't get me wrong Vulkan is the future, it's just not adding anything that wasn't already there.
I've tested 3-4 games that are using Vulkan that I cannot name and I can say without a doubt their performance vs their OpenGL counterparts are much, much better. You don't need to take my word for it, as you will see for yourself at release. By now, I think I've proven myself enough that my word can be trusted.
On the contrary I'm not parroting anything I've heard or read. I'm speaking from experience with not only Windows games in WINE but various ported games known to use D3D to OpenGl wrappers (eON as an example).
The question of Vulkan being a more optimized API over OpenGL for the intended application of gaming isn't in question. I don't need to test Vulkan to know that if there is an extra layer translating API calls from any version of D3D to another graphics API or the game was written with D3D in mind and later ported there is going to be performance implications.
A good perspective is looking at 3D engines either originally OpenGL ported to GNU/Linux, or ports where there is also a functional OpenGL render path on Windows. These generally are on par or exceed performance on our OS when compared apples to apples. Source 2 games are a great example.
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"we dont have numbers"
if they were any good we would
"Thus steam machines can grow slowly or not. If Steam Machines would spread, it would be great for us, of course. Something must come as well"
there is no such a thing as growing slow, because the gravity push you down at an constant rate, grow slower than gravity = Shrink.
jokes apart, i see a lot of people who used linux, got an bad experience and never want to use again.
that is the problem with steam machines, its not just an product that people may buy and not like, they depoisith their faith (also know as money) on it, and they will not do the same mistake again if it sucks.
people who got disapointed with the first xbox will not buy an xbox360, people who got disapointed with one of the first models of steamMachine will not give an second try.
you know what is worse than 100 people not giving linux a try? 100 people giving, but not at the same time.
it dont helps linux grown and as an consequence it dont get more apps and as consequence people dont like it and dont try again.
i used linux 3 times before i became an user, the first i got an bad feeling about it because it couldnt run an exe file.
the second i only used because i was forced to on the school to Get through the year, the thirdy was because i read about this open source thing, then i realized what linux was and since my new computer was with vista and i had no money to downgrade to xp, i give it a try.
most people will not be like me that have 3 oportunitys to give it an try, most people will never or if they try they will get Screwed and that is why we need impartial and realistic articles not biased ones. (i'm not saying this one is)
"Doesn't surprise me as they aren't ready for mainstream."
and still, they are avaliable for sale...
"in fact, yes, I am. I dare to ask what are the other alternatives to gain more Linux users? Shall we... breed?"
lol
"(As a side note, the barriers to jumping to Mac remain about the same--expensive hardware--but may be starting to grow a bit IMO. Apple don't seem to care as much about MacOS as they used to, Metal and non-gaming-oriented hardware seem likely to make Macs lag on the game side, and Apple just isn't run by a driven genius any more)"
apple dont care so much about macOS because iOS is making then tons of money.
the issue is: Android may have an larger marketshare, but its suffer from piracy and other things.
iOS on the other hand has less piracy and richer target audience.
despite the fact that Android has an larger marketshare, most of the money on the mobile market comes from the iOS market.
and... games are the most sold apps on the store.
i think the reason that valve is trying to enter on other markets like video streaming and music is to give then more content that they can distribute in any platforms (including linux) and more money to put on whetever they need to do to survive.
if they were any good we would
"Thus steam machines can grow slowly or not. If Steam Machines would spread, it would be great for us, of course. Something must come as well"
there is no such a thing as growing slow, because the gravity push you down at an constant rate, grow slower than gravity = Shrink.
jokes apart, i see a lot of people who used linux, got an bad experience and never want to use again.
that is the problem with steam machines, its not just an product that people may buy and not like, they depoisith their faith (also know as money) on it, and they will not do the same mistake again if it sucks.
people who got disapointed with the first xbox will not buy an xbox360, people who got disapointed with one of the first models of steamMachine will not give an second try.
you know what is worse than 100 people not giving linux a try? 100 people giving, but not at the same time.
it dont helps linux grown and as an consequence it dont get more apps and as consequence people dont like it and dont try again.
i used linux 3 times before i became an user, the first i got an bad feeling about it because it couldnt run an exe file.
the second i only used because i was forced to on the school to Get through the year, the thirdy was because i read about this open source thing, then i realized what linux was and since my new computer was with vista and i had no money to downgrade to xp, i give it a try.
most people will not be like me that have 3 oportunitys to give it an try, most people will never or if they try they will get Screwed and that is why we need impartial and realistic articles not biased ones. (i'm not saying this one is)
"Doesn't surprise me as they aren't ready for mainstream."
and still, they are avaliable for sale...
"in fact, yes, I am. I dare to ask what are the other alternatives to gain more Linux users? Shall we... breed?"
lol
"(As a side note, the barriers to jumping to Mac remain about the same--expensive hardware--but may be starting to grow a bit IMO. Apple don't seem to care as much about MacOS as they used to, Metal and non-gaming-oriented hardware seem likely to make Macs lag on the game side, and Apple just isn't run by a driven genius any more)"
apple dont care so much about macOS because iOS is making then tons of money.
the issue is: Android may have an larger marketshare, but its suffer from piracy and other things.
iOS on the other hand has less piracy and richer target audience.
despite the fact that Android has an larger marketshare, most of the money on the mobile market comes from the iOS market.
and... games are the most sold apps on the store.
i think the reason that valve is trying to enter on other markets like video streaming and music is to give then more content that they can distribute in any platforms (including linux) and more money to put on whetever they need to do to survive.
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I read that Microsoft is going to take measures to warn users about win32 apps that are being installed if it's not from the Windows store.
EDIT:
Article:
https://www.pcgamesn.com/microsoft/microsoft-windows-10-bloatware-win32-apps
Shiny blue button for "See more in store" and gray "Install anyway". That is exactly the kind of tactic PUP and other malware use when you uninstall it.
I think that it's pretty obvious by now that Microsoft seeks to lock in their OS.
What wall? Valve aren't hindering competition on SteamOS. Despite Microsoft open source support they still have draconian measures so that they can keep their power. For example locking games out of W8 and W7, lack of sli / crossfire support in WStore games and not to mention splitting player bases in online games.
And you know what the difference between Steam and Windows store is? People want Steam, most people hate Windows store, and with good reason.
Last edited by Aryvandaar on 28 February 2017 at 8:35 am UTC
EDIT:
Quoting: BoldosAaaand......Ooops just saw your post after my post.
...here it comes:
Article:
https://www.pcgamesn.com/microsoft/microsoft-windows-10-bloatware-win32-apps
Shiny blue button for "See more in store" and gray "Install anyway". That is exactly the kind of tactic PUP and other malware use when you uninstall it.
I think that it's pretty obvious by now that Microsoft seeks to lock in their OS.
Quoting: DuckeenieSteam machines are dead in the water simply because most people didn't care enough when Steam created their wall
What wall? Valve aren't hindering competition on SteamOS. Despite Microsoft open source support they still have draconian measures so that they can keep their power. For example locking games out of W8 and W7, lack of sli / crossfire support in WStore games and not to mention splitting player bases in online games.
And you know what the difference between Steam and Windows store is? People want Steam, most people hate Windows store, and with good reason.
Last edited by Aryvandaar on 28 February 2017 at 8:35 am UTC
1 Likes, Who?
Quoting: AryvandaarI read that Microsoft is going to take measures to warn users about win32 apps that are being installed if it's not from the Windows store.
EDIT:
Quoting: BoldosAaaand......Ooops just saw your post after my post.
...here it comes:
Article:
https://www.pcgamesn.com/microsoft/microsoft-windows-10-bloatware-win32-apps
Shiny blue button for "See more in store" and gray "Install anyway". That is exactly the kind of tactic PUP and other malware use when you uninstall it.
I think that it's pretty obvious by now that Microsoft seeks to lock in their OS.
Quoting: DuckeenieSteam machines are dead in the water simply because most people didn't care enough when Steam created their wall
What wall? Valve aren't hindering competition on SteamOS. Despite Microsoft open source support they still have draconian measures so that they can keep their power. For example locking games out of W8 and W7, lack of sli / crossfire support in WStore games and not to mention splitting player bases in online games.
And you know what the difference between Steam and Windows store is? People want Steam, most people hate Windows store, and with good reason.
The link you provided was interesting but requires a little context - That feature is disabled by default so nothing more than an option for anyone who needs it. No fire here!
Moving on to your response to my point...I think you're letting your fondness for the support Valve have given to Linux cloud your judgement. GOG for example is full of people who don't want Steam. A huge part of the Linux user-base is anti proprietary by definition and therefore don't want Steam. I don't know the exact figures but a huge percentage of AAA titles are ONLY available on Steam. If I can only buy a game on one service that IS lock-in.
Now just to add some perspective I LIKE Steam and use it all the time but then I'm far too old to start a revolution and the only lock-in I care about these days is down at my local pub.
Last edited by Duckeenie on 28 February 2017 at 10:11 pm UTC
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