Wine 2.2 released with even more Shader Model 5 instructions and work towards Direct3D command stream

Wine IS one of those reasons.

Wine is great DX9 support is pretty damn good right now native is def better but wine is not a terrible option.

Quoting: Whitewolfe80Wine is great DX9 support is pretty damn good right now native is def better but wine is not a terrible option.

Heck, sometimes wine is better than native windows :P
The wine project itself is quite impressive...

Is there anyone knows how can we enable Gallium under native wine?Custom wine version is really needed?

Quoting: [email protected]Wine IS one of those reasons.

Following down that rabbit hole, what would you expect if there was no Wine, more or less Linux adaption?

Personally I would expect far less of the software that comes to my beloved penguin via Wine. Many stuff is just running because there is Wine, with not even the slightest interest of the responsible ones to bring this to Linux otherwise.

Linux may dominate the world of computing, from servers to smartphones to the web and even my heart... but it does not dominate the desktop and I think that Wine is an as good as possible solution for a lot of usecases.

Quoting: [email protected]Wine IS one of those reasons.

Well, Windows and DOS compatibility didn't help OS/2. That's why nobody really made OS/2 Apps. Devs were like "We'll make it both for Windows and OS/2 by only making a Windows version" or "We'll make it for all x86 platforms by making it for DOS, Windows can switch to DOS and NT and OS/2 Users have a DOS Subsystem".


Last edited by commodore256 on 17 February 2017 at 11:17 pm UTC

Quoting: [email protected]Wine IS one of those reasons.

Do you really think that?

If the number of Linux desktop users is small, and the number of Linux gamers is smaller. What is the number of them who will buy a game just to manually run it on Wine? What if that game is already old and a percentage of us already own it from a bundle or a nostalgia sale?

A few of us do use Wine, but the "extra Windows sales" are minuscule for a developer. I may be wrong, but I have never heard a dev say "We don't need to port to Linux, those people will just buy it anyway and use Wine."

With that logic you should be against OpenMW because it lowers the chance that Bethesda will someday port Morrowind. Look forward, not back.

Quoting: no_information_here

Quoting: [email protected]Wine IS one of those reasons.

With that logic you should be against OpenMW because it lowers the chance that Bethesda will someday port Morrowind. Look forward, not back.

They weren't even going to port Oblivion to newer consoles. Even the Oblivion build of the engine is so old, it's incompatible with current technology and they weren't going through the extra effort even for the console kiddies. If they weren't going to port Oblivion to consoles, they weren't even considering Morrowind to anything.

Quoting: liamdaweThere will always be games and applications that simply won't come to Linux for a variety of reasons.

Quoting: [email protected]Wine IS one of those reasons.

Sure, you're right, it is one of the reasons. But I have an impression that you don't want to see bigger picture here. I guess you refer to situations in which game or application is not ported because it is already available on Linux through Wine. Sure, it happens - I bet for example Bethesda may not be interested in porting some of it's games because some of them are available on Wine (Skyrim, Doom). But Wine IS one of the reasons, why people stop to dual boot. Wine IS one of the reasons why people can use applications from Windows library on their Linux machines.

Personally, I would love to have Wine ports of all the games that are rated from Platinum to silver on Steam. Even if they would have issues. They could have been marked with small Wine icon or tagged in some way. But there would be one serious information available for Valve - every Linux gamer would use Linux version of Steam. They wouldn't be recognized as Windows players, and therefore Linux gamers would be better counted in sourveys.
And what's important - Linux games library would contain some seriously cool games.

What's more - Wine has prooved with Doom, that even if developer won't decide to release Linux version of the game, if they will use Vulkan it will be much easier to have the game on the Linux. It may end in initial wrapped ports, growing market, bigger interest in the Linux market and more native games in the end.

To sum up - Better shape of Wine is good news. WINE IS GOOD NEWS.


Last edited by wojtek88 on 17 February 2017 at 11:36 pm UTC

Quoting: [email protected]Wine IS one of those reasons.

Wine has no influence on Developers coming to Linux what so ever unless they intend to use it for their ports, in that situation its unlikely the developer would even bother with a native given their willing to just use Wine for their port.

Only down-side to Wine, is programs ran through it are counted as Windows platform, or excluded all together which is what valve does now I believe.

In my view Wine is crucial for helping bring new users to Linux. If it wasn't for Wine I wouldn't have switched to Linux 4 years ago - I'd still be clinging to Win7 now, probably hoping for ReactOS to improve enough to be usable for gaming before support for Win7 ends. I wouldn't be trying to convince people to switch to Linux with giveaways, guides etc. as I currently do and I wouldn't be planning to make my next PC Linux-only.

I have literally hundreds of games (in addition to other software) that are Windows only and will never be natively available for Linux, built up over more than 25 years of gaming on DOS/Windows, and without Wine switching to Linux would have meant completely abandoning all of that.

In addition there are lots of other older games I'd like to play that I'd have to give up on ever playing on Linux if not for Wine. Although for me to consider buying any game with the intention of running it in Wine it has to be both DRM-free and cheap, as well as be likely to actually run well.

What's more - Wine has prooved with Doom, that even if developer won't decide to release Linux version of the game, if they will use Vulkan it will be much easier to have the game on the Linux. It may end in initial wrapped ports, growing market, bigger interest in the Linux market and more native games in the end.

To sum up - Better shape of Wine is good news. WINE IS GOOD NEWS.[/quote]
But the problem with that argument is that Bethesda gimped the code in its first patch to ensure the Wine version was broken for several weeks until the good folks at Wine figured out a way to ungimp it. Bethesda and its overlords Zenimax see no benefit in going to the expense of supporting Linux, they just are not interested as they see it as un viable that not me trolling those are the words of Bethesda studio head in an interview from late 2015.

Quoting: no_information_hereI may be wrong, but I have never heard a dev say "We don't need to port to Linux, those people will just buy it anyway and use Wine."

I think John Carmack said something like that

Quoting: Whitewolfe80But the problem with that argument is that Bethesda gimped the code in its first patch to ensure the Wine version was broken for several weeks until the good folks at Wine figured out a way to ungimp it. Bethesda and its overlords Zenimax see no benefit in going to the expense of supporting Linux, they just are not interested as they see it as un viable that not me trolling those are the words of Bethesda studio head in an interview from late 2015.

There was no "gimping". It was a combination of two things: Denuvo and unimplemented features. Once the DRM was removed, Wine Staging implemented the necessary features to be able to run the new DOOM.


Last edited by JudasIscariot on 18 February 2017 at 1:15 am UTC

Quoting: JudasIscariot

Quoting: Whitewolfe80But the problem with that argument is that Bethesda gimped the code in its first patch to ensure the Wine version was broken for several weeks until the good folks at Wine figured out a way to ungimp it. Bethesda and its overlords Zenimax see no benefit in going to the expense of supporting Linux, they just are not interested as they see it as un viable that not me trolling those are the words of Bethesda studio head in an interview from late 2015.

There was no "gimping". It was a combination of two things: Denuvo and unimplemented features. Once the DRM was removed, Wine Staging implemented the necessary features to be able to run the new DOOM.

No they removed certain parts of code that gimped Doom https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MefLprcTzoA (go to 8.15) the code that Doom complains about under wine is part of code removed in the day one patch.

Win32 considered legacy even on Windows (UWP is new shiny thing) so if you hate WINE, you could also hate PCSX or DOSBox for same reasons.
As for WINE ports - I actually prefer to VP get money for eON ports (if Feral or Aspyr porting is not an option for developers).

Quoting: LeopardCustom wine version is really needed?

Yes, but I hope GalliumNine will get merged into Wine-Staging: https://github.com/wine-compholio/wine-staging/pull/333


Last edited by RussianNeuroMancer on 18 February 2017 at 5:30 am UTC

With all due respect, saying "wine discourages ports" while true, is a very one-sided and short-sighted argument. The positive effects far outweigh the negative ones. Several people here have already pointed many of them out, so I'll just focus on this: Wine increases the viability and appeal of moving to Linux and decreases those for staying on Windows. Don't forget that, while it's true that the existence of Wine "removes the need" of porting to Linux it also works in the opposite direction, the less options are exclusive to Windows, the less reasons for using it there are. I imagine the moment Wine catches up with DirectX 12 or even just 11 it'll have noticeable ramifications. What more needs to be said? If it wasn't for Wine I'd never be able to switch to using Linux exclusively, as a gaming enthusiast, composer or developer. Furthermore, every reasonable developer with an ounce of respect for the players understands full well that native ports are vastly preferable. One could go on and on on this subject, but really Wine and its progress are amazing and extremely beneficial to our platform.

More closely to the topic of the article, I wish someone would provide "specific games that work now" / "games that work better now" lists along with those updates. I know compiling those is actual work that somebody would have to do but it'd be very very neat to have them.


Last edited by qptain Nemo on 18 February 2017 at 8:30 am UTC

In my case wine was pretty unimportant. For some years I was dualbooting with windows so wine was irrelevant. Also I have not been gaming on windows a lot. Almost all of my games are either old MS-DOS games or are new Linux-native games! Wine has been useful mainly to be able to run random EXE files and the funny thing is that this executables had compatibility issues with new versions of windows :P
For some years now I only use wine for playing LackeyCCG.

DOSBox and SCUMMVM have been way more important for my gaming than wine.

Also I consider games that use wine as a porting tool as _native_. This is a simple idea that should be very encouraged for old games. It is of course a terrible idea for new games (remastered games are also new) for a lot of reasons one of them is that windows is a moving target and Linux should not chase. I will not install wine version of steam to play games but if a game simply runs without doing a sepparate steam installation it really does not make any sense the technology behind for the end user.


Last edited by lucinos on 18 February 2017 at 8:33 am UTC

Quoting: no_information_here

Quoting: [email protected]Wine IS one of those reasons.

If the number of Linux desktop users is small, and the number of Linux gamers is smaller. What is the number of them who will buy a game just to manually run it on Wine? What if that game is already old and a percentage of us already own it from a bundle or a nostalgia sale?

Except wine supports up to D3D9 just fine now, AFAIK. Hence further development will only push it beyond that. I do not call DX10+ games 'old'. IMHO the wine project should switch to .NET/Adobe/MS/etc app compatibility as their main focus now. But that's not going to happen because wine is mainly supported by codeweavers and games is where the money is.

Quoting: qptain NemoMore closely to the topic of the article, I wish someone would provide "specific games that work now" / "games that work better now" lists along with those updates. I know compiling those is actual work that somebody would have to do but it'd be very very neat to have them.

Was that aimed at me or the Wine guys?