Wine 2.2 released with even more Shader Model 5 instructions and work towards Direct3D command stream

Quoting: commodore256Windows having the ability to run new windows apps and new OS/2 Apps, (if any) but OS/2 was only compatible with legacy Windows ruined the viability of OS/2 just like the ability to only run legacy Windows on Linux is ruining the viability of Linux.

Why do you ever want to run newer Windows applications on Linux? Newer games should be done as native applications for Linux and WINE is very good for older classics.

Quoting: lejimster

Quoting: Leopard

Quoting: lejimster

Quoting: LeopardIs there anyone knows how can we enable Gallium under native wine?Custom wine version is really needed?

You need Padoka PPA if using Ubuntu based distro. https://launchpad.net/~paulo-miguel-dias/+archive/ubuntu/mesa

I'm already using it but in the wine there is only enable csmt,not gallium.I'm using Wine Staging,latest version.Provided by Wine Ubuntu Ppa

My link didn't work properly... I think ive fixed it this time... But goto it. And read down to where it mentions gallium-nine.. They recommend using wine off another ppa. https://launchpad.net/~paulo-miguel-dias/+archive/ubuntu/mesa

Thanks,i already mean that by is there a way to enable Gallium with official Wine ppa.Anyway,i deleted official wine and installed this.Gallium is active now.But i m using Padoka Stable Ppa.Is it works with it or i need Obiaf Ppa?

Quoting: commodore256

Quoting: qptain NemoWine increases the viability and appeal of moving to Linux and decreases those for staying on Windows.

What happens in the times that Windows becomes more of a black box and the windows compatibility is out of date?

(...)

Windows having the ability to run new windows apps and new OS/2 Apps, (if any) but OS/2 was only compatible with legacy Windows ruined the viability of OS/2 just like the ability to only run legacy Windows on Linux is ruining the viability of Linux.

Well, thankfully the appeal of Linux doesn't entirely rely on Windows applications legacy or not! Not nearly. In fact Linux for me is all about being able to do more, not less. I can't attest to what the situation with OS/2 was, not familiar enough with it, but going by your description this is a very different situation.

Because you see, it's still very different to need some Windows applications and to need Windows. The latter is definitely not the case for me, thankfully, and the former is mostly covered by Wine. I don't think my situation is unique at all.

Lastly, I believe it very much matters what exactly is available and what isn't. The overwhelming majority doesn't actually care about having 100% of options. (This is one of the reasons I'm so upset with CDPR, I think The Witcher 3 alone if it came to SteamOS and Linux would make a huge difference in people's perception of the platform. Being able to say "but we have The Witcher 3" could possibly sway quite a few conversations and people. )

Wine or not, Linux is certainly not just a launcher for legacy Windows programs and that's not going to change.

Quoting: throgh

Quoting: commodore256Windows having the ability to run new windows apps and new OS/2 Apps, (if any) but OS/2 was only compatible with legacy Windows ruined the viability of OS/2 just like the ability to only run legacy Windows on Linux is ruining the viability of Linux.

Why do you ever want to run newer Windows applications on Linux? Newer games should be done as native applications for Linux and WINE is very good for older classics.

@throgh in perfect world you're right. But you need to see that Valve and Ubisoft/EA are competitors because of Uplay and Origin platforms. This means that those companies won't release Linux versions of their games, because they have no interest in it. What's more - other bigger publishers are not on Linux board yet. CD Projekt RED did not release Witcher 3 even if Valve claimed they will, Rockstar and Bethesda are not interested in Linux, so it's very unlikely that there will be Linux version of games like:
GTA V, Witcher 3, Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim, Watch Dogs 2, Far Cry 4, FIFA 17, and so on and so on.
One approach is just to ignore those titles (and of course this is best for the platform - ignore titles that are not released and support publishers with games that are published, give money to companies that support your market).
But you should take a look at the titles of the games I mentioned - look at numbers next to the game name - 5 (ignoring Vice City etc.), 3, 5, 2, 4, 17 (actualy 24). Some people fell in love with some of this franchises back in the days when they used Windows. And they just want to play their favourite franchise and they don't want to be forced to have Windows installed on their PCs again. Such a people would choose Wine if it would run the game on decent frame rate. And it's not something that is impossible - Wine made huge progress last years. Take a look how Doom works on Vulkan renderer with Wine.Take a look at this comparison. Do you think that such a performance is bad? I don't. That's why I don't think that newest games cannot be ported with Wine.
Of course Doom is very different than most of the games that are available on the market - it does come with Vulkan and OpenGL renderer while most of the games we have problem with have DirectX renderers.
But if you have doubts regarding Wine being useful for newer games - take a look at manero666 thread. He did great work. You will be able to see many great games running without an issue on Wine, including DIRT 3 that I loved and some popular games, for example Fallout 3 or PES 2017. Of course maybe we have different understanding of term "older classic" - I see it as games released at least 10 years ago.

Quoting: Leopard*snip*

It should work with Padoka and Oibaf I'm pretty sure. From what I read Padoka has Vulkan and bleeding edge stuff and Oibaf is more stable.

You won't find gallium-nine on official wine because they refuse to have it upstream.

I personally don't use Ubuntu/Mint, but I run on the latest mesa-git and wine-staging with gallium-nine support and its very good.

Have fun.

Quoting: lejimster

Quoting: Leopard*snip*

It should work with Padoka and Oibaf I'm pretty sure. From what I read Padoka has Vulkan and bleeding edge stuff and Oibaf is more stable.

You won't find gallium-nine on official wine because they refuse to have it upstream.

I personally don't use Ubuntu/Mint, but I run on the latest mesa-git and wine-staging with gallium-nine support and its very good.

Have fun.

Thanks

Quoting: lejimster

Quoting: Leopard*snip*

It should work with Padoka and Oibaf I'm pretty sure. From what I read Padoka has Vulkan and bleeding edge stuff and Oibaf is more stable.

You won't find gallium-nine on official wine because they refuse to have it upstream.

I personally don't use Ubuntu/Mint, but I run on the latest mesa-git and wine-staging with gallium-nine support and its very good.

Have fun.

And I still don't get their reasoning behind refusing Gallium Nine for it being too vendor specific (AMD, nVidia), but supporting CUDA, which is even more vendor specific (only nVidia)...

Quoting: commodore256

Quoting: qptain NemoWine increases the viability and appeal of moving to Linux and decreases those for staying on Windows.

What happens in the times that Windows becomes more of a black box and the windows compatibility is out of date?
. . .
People would be like "Well, if I get NT 4.0, I can run Windows and OS/2 Apps, so I don't need OS/2".

Kinda like what's happening with Wine.
. . .
Windows having the ability to run new windows apps and new OS/2 Apps, (if any) but OS/2 was only compatible with legacy Windows ruined the viability of OS/2 just like the ability to only run legacy Windows on Linux is ruining the viability of Linux.

This isn't a problem with having Wine at all, it's a problem with Wine not being completely up to date and perfect in its not-emulation. Nothing you're saying suggests the situation would be better if you couldn't run Windows stuff on Linux at all. Well, sure, all of us including the Wine developers would prefer if Wine executed all Windows programs flawlessly without exception up to and including everything using DX12. But the current state is certainly far better than not having Wine.

And again, you're talking as if Windows itself runs everything perfectly--the situation as of Windows 10 and even to some extent the Windows 8's is that increasingly, modern Windows won't run old Windows software. On top of that, the situation where Wine runs only obsolete software--that's a very gamer-centric view. Games are much more vulnerable to that situation than other apps, most of which don't do big time bleeding edge graphics stuff. So for instance, the latest Wine runs the latest MS Office. I use LibreOffice myself, use MS Office at work and I tell you, I wouldn't switch if you paid me (um, depending how much), 'cause I dislike the Ribbon. But even so, it's clear the ability to run MS Office is huge.

But when it comes to switching for home users (or even offices), it's the old stuff that's most important. The Windows 7 base is still huge; those people can't run the latest games anyway. Going forward, getting new stuff, there are applications on Linux. Even for gamers, there's only a subset who care that much if New Game X is on Linux, as long as there are plenty of decent games they can get. The issue is the old stuff that you're attached to; for instance my dad is getting quite frustrated with Windows' attempts to force-upgrade him, and I think might totally switch to Linux--but only if I can get his genealogy program running on it, because he has tons of files in its format and he's used to its workflow. Gotta remember to experiment with that. Anyway, if Wine can successfully run all those old programs people are attached to--specifically, more successfully than modern Windows--it could be a serious aid to switching.

As of today, on Sunday, the staging patches all of but done. There are serious regressions. For starters the color problem in Thief is back. Also, SE V2 will no longer start. This forthcoming release will tank performance in Hitman: A. I benchmark at 1/2rd the fps I used to get with 2.1 staging. So, I have reverted and will be keeping 2.2-devel(no patches) for further testing.

Devel or staging,which one is stable version?

How long does it usually take for wine-staging to release their packages in their repos? It's still at 2.1 there.

Quoting: LeopardDevel or staging,which one is stable version?

Neither. But there is no point in using the stable version. Too many features are being added all the time. Staging has more bug fixes which are somewhat experimental still. I'm using staging for gaming.


Last edited by Shmerl on 19 February 2017 at 7:14 pm UTC

Quoting: ShmerlHow long does it usually take for wine-staging to release their packages in their repos? It's still at 2.1 there.

Quoting: LeopardDevel or staging,which one is stable version?

Neither. But there is no point in using the stable version. Too many features are being added all the time. Staging has more bug fixes which are somewhat experimental still. I'm using staging for gaming.

It's normally a few days after the "normal" version, should be tomorrow or Tuesday.

Quoting: LeopardDevel or staging,which one is stable version?

Staging git, which rebases to 2.2 devel. These are today's commits.

I'm sticking with a 2.2 development build and a 2.1 staging build.

Quoting: sr_ls_boyAs of today, on Sunday, the staging patches all of but done. There are serious regressions. For starters the color problem in Thief is back. Also, SE V2 will no longer start. This forthcoming release will tank performance in Hitman: A. I benchmark at 1/2rd the fps I used to get with 2.1 staging. So, I have reverted and will be keeping 2.2-devel(no patches) for further testing.

That's why you should not always do day one updates on Wine there are typically regressions here and there in order to get better functionality with x package if the version you have has decent performance stick with that until there is an improvement in the functions you are looking for bottom line read the change logs.

Quoting: sr_ls_boy

Quoting: LeopardDevel or staging,which one is stable version?

Staging git, which rebases to 2.2 devel. These are today's commits.

I'm sticking with a 2.2 development build and a 2.1 staging build.

Is anyone publishing nightly builds of wine staging?


Last edited by Shmerl on 19 February 2017 at 8:42 pm UTC

Quoting: Whitewolfe80if the version you have has decent performance stick with that until there is an improvement in the functions you are looking for bottom line read the change logs.

You'll never know until you test it. That's what I did.

Quoting: wojtek88

Quoting: throghWhy do you ever want to run newer Windows applications on Linux? Newer games should be done as native applications for Linux and WINE is very good for older classics.

@throgh in perfect world you're right. But you need to see that Valve and Ubisoft/EA are competitors because of Uplay and Origin platforms. This means that those companies won't release Linux versions of their games, because they have no interest in it. What's more - other bigger publishers are not on Linux board yet. CD Projekt RED did not release Witcher 3 even if Valve claimed they will, Rockstar and Bethesda are not interested in Linux, so it's very unlikely that there will be Linux version of games like:
GTA V, Witcher 3, Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim, Watch Dogs 2, Far Cry 4, FIFA 17, and so on and so on.
One approach is just to ignore those titles (and of course this is best for the platform - ignore titles that are not released and support publishers with games that are published, give money to companies that support your market).
But you should take a look at the titles of the games I mentioned - look at numbers next to the game name - 5 (ignoring Vice City etc.), 3, 5, 2, 4, 17 (actualy 24). Some people fell in love with some of this franchises back in the days when they used Windows. And they just want to play their favourite franchise and they don't want to be forced to have Windows installed on their PCs again. Such a people would choose Wine if it would run the game on decent frame rate. And it's not something that is impossible - Wine made huge progress last years. Take a look how Doom works on Vulkan renderer with Wine.Take a look at this comparison. Do you think that such a performance is bad? I don't. That's why I don't think that newest games cannot be ported with Wine.
Of course Doom is very different than most of the games that are available on the market - it does come with Vulkan and OpenGL renderer while most of the games we have problem with have DirectX renderers.
But if you have doubts regarding Wine being useful for newer games - take a look at manero666 thread. He did great work. You will be able to see many great games running without an issue on Wine, including DIRT 3 that I loved and some popular games, for example Fallout 3 or PES 2017. Of course maybe we have different understanding of term "older classic" - I see it as games released at least 10 years ago.

Well of course: Points that matter. But most of those games you've mentioned are only used with DRM and available throughout concurrent platforms. That means: There are also problems when patching those platforms like UPlay or Origin, so WINE has to have a look after these. So at first there is just another building site: Getting those games without DRM, even DRM-free and I don't think about illegal copies. After that when the installation is possible without any further problems and only focussed on the games, there can be thoughts about running those without problems. Otherwise you have always problems when any client is patched!

And regarding the term "older classics": Games most older than ten years. But that's my individual perspective ... I just don't want to turn my Linux-installation in another "Windows" because most of the games you've mentioned also needs more amount of hardware and even more software besides the game itself as controlling instance. And of course: The newer games from UbiSoft, Electronic Arts or Bethesda are coming all with enforced activation and I also don't think the companies behind ever think about supporting Linux, so I also see no reason giving them support through renting their software. ^_^


Last edited by throgh on 19 February 2017 at 11:38 pm UTC

The Wine project is awesome, I'm running Heroes fo the Storm on my Arch and no issues at all.

Thumbs up for all wine developers!

It's either native support, or no buy! simple as that! though wine is a interesting project...

Quoting: Comandante Ñoñardo

Quoting: no_information_hereI may be wrong, but I have never heard a dev say "We don't need to port to Linux, those people will just buy it anyway and use Wine."

I think John Carmack said something like that

Thanks to Comandante Ñoñardo for the link to the Carmack quote. I stand (partly) corrected.

However, I have always thought of Carmack as a technology guy, not a business guy. It is the business people who will decide whether Linux is worth porting to. People like Carmack can strongly influence that decision, but at the end of the day it is financial. If the linux market is promising enough, people will port games. My argument was that business people are not looking at wine as rendering the linux market potential zero. It has too small an impact for that.

Linux as a business proposition will stand on its own. Unless Wine suddenly become almost flawless in running 90% of all current Windows games, it does not really compete with porting games. To be honest, though, if was suddenly able to do that, I wouldn't mind at all.