The Witcher 3 is something Linux users have been practically begging to have, but the problem is that it seems it will likely never come to Linux. An ex-Virtual Programming developer has taken to reddit explaining why this may have happened.
I should stress, for our own record here that this is not the official word from Virtual Programming or CD Projekt RED. This is the personal opinion of an ex-VP developer.
Here's the issue: The Linux version of The Witcher 2 was released in a poor state, it had poor performance and just didn't really work well at all. It was later fixed-up and last time I tried it, the performance was absolutely fine for me. The real problem, is the amount of hate that was sent towards the porters Virtual Programming and directly to CD Projekt RED as well. Even I personally saw some of the hate that was sent their way and it was downright idiotic and absolutely uncalled for.
I will absolutely hold my hands up as well, I made mistakes around it since I simply didn't know enough at the time, and to be honest three years ago I was still learning a lot about everything. I later corrected what I said, as I always aim to.
Writing on reddit, this developer said (source):
It seems we may have also seen a port of The Witcher 1 as well, as the developer also said (source):
There's also this post from another user, who said at the time The Witcher 2 released for Linux, CDProjekt apparently lost a fair amount on the Warsaw Stock Exchange. Apparently due to such a big backlash from the community about the initial release quality. I haven't verified that myself, but if true it would certainly make CDProjekt rather against doing another Linux port with anyone.
This is sad, really sad. I hope this makes a few people reconsider their attitude when talking to developer about the performance of ports. Performance can be worked on and fixed, burnt bridges are harder (and sometimes impossible) to fix.
This reminds me of the time the Blizzard President responded to a small petition asking for Linux ports of their games. The response to the petition was really nice to see from such a big company and truthfully the response I fully expected, but the original statement in reply to it from the petition author (now deleted by the author, but captured in my article) was downright childish and idiotic.
Yes problems are annoying, but throwing insults around helps no one and yes it does make us look bad. I get where people are coming from, to an extent, since some games do end up getting left in a terribly broken state for a long time and sometimes forever. However, in this case VP did good and continued working and now, as stated previously, The Witcher 2 seems fine. Their others ports are generally pretty decent too.
I just hope in future that this developer who got a massive amount of hate and CD Projekt RED can look past it somehow, for all the fans of their franchise on Linux.
Note: I personally spoke to this developer about publishing this with their approval, in the hopes that it might get a few people to re-think their initial attitude towards problems in games. Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
I should stress, for our own record here that this is not the official word from Virtual Programming or CD Projekt RED. This is the personal opinion of an ex-VP developer.
Here's the issue: The Linux version of The Witcher 2 was released in a poor state, it had poor performance and just didn't really work well at all. It was later fixed-up and last time I tried it, the performance was absolutely fine for me. The real problem, is the amount of hate that was sent towards the porters Virtual Programming and directly to CD Projekt RED as well. Even I personally saw some of the hate that was sent their way and it was downright idiotic and absolutely uncalled for.
I will absolutely hold my hands up as well, I made mistakes around it since I simply didn't know enough at the time, and to be honest three years ago I was still learning a lot about everything. I later corrected what I said, as I always aim to.
Writing on reddit, this developer said (source):
QuoteI agree, things were not right on release... but the vocality of people went way beyond that. It was an all out hate campaign against VP, against CDPR for "lying about the port being native". I attempted to help people out in my own time and got absolutely roasted and abused for it.
The community needs to realise it simply cannot justify this sort of behaviour if they want to convince devs and publishers to support them. There is no excuse.
It seems we may have also seen a port of The Witcher 1 as well, as the developer also said (source):
QuoteThe vitriol was unbelievable. Yes we messed up the performance on release but we put it right. However a huge hate campaign ensued. Both VP and CDPR got lots of vengeful hate mail sent to them. I cannot help but feel this damaged CDPR's view of the Linux platform irrevocably.
They certainly didnt blame us, because they had us work on a Mac port of Witcher 1 to replace the non-functioning Wineskin version. The same port would have ran on Linux too with very little extra work, but they were not interested in releasing it.
There's also this post from another user, who said at the time The Witcher 2 released for Linux, CDProjekt apparently lost a fair amount on the Warsaw Stock Exchange. Apparently due to such a big backlash from the community about the initial release quality. I haven't verified that myself, but if true it would certainly make CDProjekt rather against doing another Linux port with anyone.
This is sad, really sad. I hope this makes a few people reconsider their attitude when talking to developer about the performance of ports. Performance can be worked on and fixed, burnt bridges are harder (and sometimes impossible) to fix.
This reminds me of the time the Blizzard President responded to a small petition asking for Linux ports of their games. The response to the petition was really nice to see from such a big company and truthfully the response I fully expected, but the original statement in reply to it from the petition author (now deleted by the author, but captured in my article) was downright childish and idiotic.
Yes problems are annoying, but throwing insults around helps no one and yes it does make us look bad. I get where people are coming from, to an extent, since some games do end up getting left in a terribly broken state for a long time and sometimes forever. However, in this case VP did good and continued working and now, as stated previously, The Witcher 2 seems fine. Their others ports are generally pretty decent too.
I just hope in future that this developer who got a massive amount of hate and CD Projekt RED can look past it somehow, for all the fans of their franchise on Linux.
Note: I personally spoke to this developer about publishing this with their approval, in the hopes that it might get a few people to re-think their initial attitude towards problems in games. Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
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The comments on this article are closed.
Quoting: GuestI thought that was more like a guess than a fact?Quoting: lucifertdarkIf they're going to turn tail & run because of a few small minded people then they might as well shut up shop altogether as it's only going to get much worse now thanks to this.
They already did - on Linux. Thats the point.
3 Likes, Who?
Lets all be truthful here shall we.
There are devs that somewhat bring it on themselves by releasing poor or broken software however the behaviour that was shown is no excuse and its unacceptable and should not be tolerated.
The problem lies with the entire gaming community as a whole across all platforms. The sheer amount of hate and abuse thrown around along with pathetic arguments and flame wars is getting out of hand.
the only way to change this is to put a stop to it once and for all and both gamers and devs need to take responsibility and start working together to stamp this problem out.
Its time the gaming community grew up.
There are devs that somewhat bring it on themselves by releasing poor or broken software however the behaviour that was shown is no excuse and its unacceptable and should not be tolerated.
The problem lies with the entire gaming community as a whole across all platforms. The sheer amount of hate and abuse thrown around along with pathetic arguments and flame wars is getting out of hand.
the only way to change this is to put a stop to it once and for all and both gamers and devs need to take responsibility and start working together to stamp this problem out.
Its time the gaming community grew up.
3 Likes, Who?
Quoting: webcreatureThat is not racism, it's not even OSsism, it's free market. They are not denying us a right to do anything. The product people got so angry about was fixed and works fine now. It seems CDPR just decided, to not repeat the experience..
Not exactly. CDPR started working on the Linux version of TW3, communicated multiple times that it's coming, and then cancelled it without any explanation. That was already well after the release of TW2 for Linux by the way.
See this timeline: https://www.gamingonlinux.com/wiki/The_Witcher_3_Linux_port
In the summer of 2015 they were still working on it. Some problems happened after that, and year later they already changed the tone of their messages to "we are looking into" and eventually "nothing to say about it". TW2 for Linux came out in May 2014.
So, something must have happened in between summer of 2015 and spring of 2016, that borked the project. And I doubt it could be some outrage, that happened in 2014.
Last edited by Shmerl on 4 July 2017 at 12:57 am UTC
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Yeah, no, the Linux community reminds me a lot of the 'Atheist community'. Some don't even really consider it to be an important part of their identity, wouldn't mention it in a conversation where it isn't particularly relevant, right? Then you have your zealous Dawkins fan-boy types (not to dis Dawkins' works) who feel the need to show their superiority to the brainwashed masses, using this particular niche as a way to bolster their intelligence. They've found their cause, their source of validation, and their very dedicated to it
For lack of a better word, these 'Geek' communities can produce some nasty people (I imagine there are parallels to this kind of effect in all communities to some extent). Maybe because we tend to be more isolated, or the fact our preferred medium of communication is full of echo chambers like a confirmation bias's wet dream. I've seen, fortunately not too often, Linux zealots spit some serious venom, in a way that implies they've no self awareness :|
Combine that and the fact that we're a small platform and I'm not too surprised they didn't bother. Not that I don't think the issues raised weren't legit, but this took place during a time when the call for native ports was in full effect (something I will admit I took some solidarity in), and I recall the responses resonating that. And complaints of the performance were also justified. It's the intensity of some of the responses I disapprove of, as it hurts us and our community's image.
All that said, we also do have some of the greatest people. Some of the smartest people, which may explain the 2-Smart-4-U people mentioned before. But we also have some of the most helpful and appreciative as well. I've been told this by developers when I've bug tested or written articles about their games. That's why I'm still glad to be a part of this community :) <3
Last edited by HadBabits on 3 July 2017 at 11:51 pm UTC
For lack of a better word, these 'Geek' communities can produce some nasty people (I imagine there are parallels to this kind of effect in all communities to some extent). Maybe because we tend to be more isolated, or the fact our preferred medium of communication is full of echo chambers like a confirmation bias's wet dream. I've seen, fortunately not too often, Linux zealots spit some serious venom, in a way that implies they've no self awareness :|
Combine that and the fact that we're a small platform and I'm not too surprised they didn't bother. Not that I don't think the issues raised weren't legit, but this took place during a time when the call for native ports was in full effect (something I will admit I took some solidarity in), and I recall the responses resonating that. And complaints of the performance were also justified. It's the intensity of some of the responses I disapprove of, as it hurts us and our community's image.
All that said, we also do have some of the greatest people. Some of the smartest people, which may explain the 2-Smart-4-U people mentioned before. But we also have some of the most helpful and appreciative as well. I've been told this by developers when I've bug tested or written articles about their games. That's why I'm still glad to be a part of this community :) <3
Last edited by HadBabits on 3 July 2017 at 11:51 pm UTC
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Quoting: GuestQuoting: KimmoKMthe backlash at the time was 100% justified
People emailing me personally saying they hoped i would fucking die was justified?
This is just messed up. I'm sorry that this happened to you. Showing displeasure on a public forum against a company is one thing. Personally contacting their staff is just wrong.
I finished Witcher 2 last week. I thought the port was awesome. Thank you.
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Quoting: GuestQuoting: lucifertdarkIf they're going to turn tail & run because of a few small minded people then they might as well shut up shop altogether as it's only going to get much worse now thanks to this.
They already did - on Linux. Thats the point.
Quoting: razing32Quoting: g000hI find quite a few things upsetting in the world of Linux gaming.
I really loved "Legend of Grimrock" - It was one of the first decent games I played on Linux (bought it on GOG) about 4 years ago. So happy to be able to play that wonderful game on Linux. And then, the next one - Legend of Grimrock 2 - What's going on, it's not on Linux. Well, I picked it up anyway, and thanks to WINE I was still able to play it on Linux although I would have much preferred a native version. (Devs at Almost Human - fingers crossed, then I can play it again, *properly* .)
And then I look at other titles which have done similarly:
The Witcher 2 - Hurray, it's on Linux. The Witcher 3 - Aww no. There isn't a Linux port.
The Banner Saga - cool, a Linux port. The Banner Saga 2 - No Linux port.
Shadow Warrior (2013) - Played it on Linux recently. Shadow Warrior 2 - It should be coming to Linux eventually, but nothing so far, sniffle.
Codemaster's F1 2015 came to Linux. F1 2016 - No Linux port ( due to not enough interest in the 2015 game).
Divinity: Original Sin - A Linux Port. Divinity: Original Sin 2 - No Linux port.
That's an interesting observation really.
Kinda sad we lose the support throughout a series.
Divinity OS 2 is a special case. Larian promised Linux support for DOS1 a bit lightly. They had serious problems with it and were flamed for the delay, then eventually built Linux support into the enhanced engine, which was used as a basis for DOS2 also. Larian just did not promise anything anymore, except considering Linux support after the game is ready. So the game still might come for Linux...
3 Likes, Who?
That would be an odd reason to cancel a port.
Having to deal with awful customers is quite unfortunately part of most businesses.
I think it's way more likely that CDPR isn't interested in Linux anymore, now that the prospect of steam machines taking a big chunk of the market is gone.
Typical short-sightedness of a shareholder owned company: don't want to invest now into Linux and will have to pay the MS Store tax down the road.
That's why I only buy on Steam. It's not the perfect store, but it's our best bet for Linux gaming to really take off.
No other company really invest/support Linux gaming (aside from porters, especially Feral).
Having to deal with awful customers is quite unfortunately part of most businesses.
I think it's way more likely that CDPR isn't interested in Linux anymore, now that the prospect of steam machines taking a big chunk of the market is gone.
Typical short-sightedness of a shareholder owned company: don't want to invest now into Linux and will have to pay the MS Store tax down the road.
That's why I only buy on Steam. It's not the perfect store, but it's our best bet for Linux gaming to really take off.
No other company really invest/support Linux gaming (aside from porters, especially Feral).
6 Likes, Who?
Quoting: AlveKattJust want to put it out there for everyone pointing out that windows/console game backlash for shitty releases has been even worse: "The other guys are even worse" is not an acceptable excuse for shitty behaviour. Ever.
I agree that it doesn't excuse the shitty behaviour, and I agree that it was very shitty and in no way even close to justified. There's no defending that shit and everyone involved should be ashamed and just get into the sea.
However, I don't think most people bringing it up are trying to justify said behaviour, so much as to use it to point out the hypocricy and startling unprofessionalism of basing collective punishment of the Linux community, most of whom had nothing to do with it and many of whom spoke out against it at the time.
2 Likes, Who?
Quoting: ShmerlQuoting: webcreatureThat is not racism, it's not even OSsism, it's free market. They are not denying us a right to do anything. The product people got so angry about was fixed and works fine now. It seems CDPR just decided, to not repeat the experience..
Not exactly. CDPR started working on the Linux version, communicated multiple times that it's coming, and then cancelled it without any explanation. That was already well after the release of TW2 for Linux by the way.
See this timeline: https://www.gamingonlinux.com/wiki/The_Witcher_3_Linux_port
In the summer of 2015 they were still working on it. Some problems happened after that, and year later they already changed the tone of their messages to "we are looking into" and eventually "nothing to say about it". TW2 for Linux came out in May 2014.
So, something must have happened in between summer of 2015 and spring of 2016, that borked the project. And I doubt it could be some outrage, that happened in 2014.
Yes you're right of course! So let's say they might have decided to not contimue the experience...
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Quoting: webcreatureYes you're right of course! So let's say they might have decided to not contimue the experience...
I suppose someone on top there, cancelled it. But we don't really know the reason, and from the timeline, it's quite unlikely that it were bad reactions on TW2 Linux release.
Would still be good to know, what the reason is. I'm more inclined to guess, it was related to the failure of Steam Machines to gain wider adoption. After all, their early ads indicated connection to SteamOS release, and even in the interview Marcin Iwiński said, they'd release TW3 for Linux if "[Valve] will deliver a cool console".
Last edited by Shmerl on 4 July 2017 at 12:08 am UTC
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These are really sad news. After finishing The Witcher 2 I was waiting to play the sequel :'(
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The windows community is just as vitriolic. I saw this some time ago.
It talks about the 'Mass Effect 3' and the back lash from the community.
It caused valve to rethink HL3 development.
View video on youtube.com
It talks about the 'Mass Effect 3' and the back lash from the community.
It caused valve to rethink HL3 development.
View video on youtube.com
1 Likes, Who?
TheRiddick Jul 4, 2017
Unfortunately these extreme haters won't ever leave the gaming community, developers must accept that they are the loudest ones and just ignore them. They are not representative of the community as a whole.
In saying that if they added in VulkanAPI support to their Witcher3 game then it would make for a rather smooth transition to Linux, and allowing for windows users to enjoy the benefits also. Trying to convert DX11 to OGL IMO never seems to yield very good results.
In saying that if they added in VulkanAPI support to their Witcher3 game then it would make for a rather smooth transition to Linux, and allowing for windows users to enjoy the benefits also. Trying to convert DX11 to OGL IMO never seems to yield very good results.
1 Likes, Who?
Quoting: Guestedit: Even if the renderer was Vulkan and the middleware paid for, that does not equal a Linux port. You still have to have the expertise to deal with and support Linux. Look at all the smaller devs who have thought that all they need to do is ship a binary, and have gotten severely burned when they were unequipped to deal with the technical support.
CDPR have more than enough money to hire experts. They hired a lot of developers to work on CP2077. So that's not really an excuse. No one is stopping them from investing in their engine, and making it truly cross platform. I.e. no wrappers and etc. - native Linux development from day one.
Last edited by Shmerl on 4 July 2017 at 1:33 am UTC
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Quoting: GuestInstead I was roasted alive and got sent (to my work and personal email accounts, and my personal Facebook account, Steam account etc) tons of very hateful mail, telling me/my family to go and die, and such like.
Damn, that's messed up.
I wonder if there is something we could do to show we aren't all jerks. Maybe CDPR needs cookies.
2 Likes, Who?
Quoting: bingusI wonder if there is something we could do to show we aren't all jerks. Maybe CDPR needs cookies.
Talk to them directly, they read comments, even if they don't reply.
Vote here and here.
Post a comment here.
Very few people ever posted in CDPR forums about interest for Linux versions. The impression is always, no one cares.
Last edited by Shmerl on 4 July 2017 at 1:54 am UTC
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Quoting: GuestIndeed they do. But now, justify the extra expenditure of doing this to the board of directors. That's a lot of investment, for 1% of the market.
They apparently already explained it. They planned to make REDengine a product on its own, i.e. they wanted to license it to other developers. Making it cross platform in that context already is about not falling behind competition. They even explicitly spelled out those plans in their past yearly reports.
But during their last public meeting with shareholders they suddenly announced that those plans to release REDengine were cancelled (no reasons given). That also spelled doom for release of their full blown modding tools for TW3, which upset quite a lot of people. I.e. those modding tools were supposed to be some version of their engine editor they were planning to release for others.
Last edited by Shmerl on 4 July 2017 at 2:05 am UTC
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DELETED, Sorry
Last edited by Nyamiou on 4 July 2017 at 10:26 pm UTC
Last edited by Nyamiou on 4 July 2017 at 10:26 pm UTC
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Quoting: GuestQuoting: NyamiouWho know if this guy is really who he claim he is, jaycee_1980 doesn't bring any results anywhere except on reddit and he's only been here for a month. Also who would use this surname, Jaycee is the name of a girl who was born in 1980 and was abducted at 11 year old for 18 years (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kidnapping_of_Jaycee_Dugard. For me this guy is a massive troll, plain and simple.
Obviously you think Liam is stupid then. Look me up on Steam. Ask Liam himself.
Even if you are who you claim you are, it doesn't means what you are saying is true, you might knowingly or unknowgly be exagerating the truth, making it up or missing important parts. The idea that a company would judge an entire community over the reaction of a few individuals no matter how loud they can be is completly unacceptable, if CDRP are really like then they got the hate they deserved.
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