The Witcher 3 is something Linux users have been practically begging to have, but the problem is that it seems it will likely never come to Linux. An ex-Virtual Programming developer has taken to reddit explaining why this may have happened.
I should stress, for our own record here that this is not the official word from Virtual Programming or CD Projekt RED. This is the personal opinion of an ex-VP developer.
Here's the issue: The Linux version of The Witcher 2 was released in a poor state, it had poor performance and just didn't really work well at all. It was later fixed-up and last time I tried it, the performance was absolutely fine for me. The real problem, is the amount of hate that was sent towards the porters Virtual Programming and directly to CD Projekt RED as well. Even I personally saw some of the hate that was sent their way and it was downright idiotic and absolutely uncalled for.
I will absolutely hold my hands up as well, I made mistakes around it since I simply didn't know enough at the time, and to be honest three years ago I was still learning a lot about everything. I later corrected what I said, as I always aim to.
Writing on reddit, this developer said (source):
It seems we may have also seen a port of The Witcher 1 as well, as the developer also said (source):
There's also this post from another user, who said at the time The Witcher 2 released for Linux, CDProjekt apparently lost a fair amount on the Warsaw Stock Exchange. Apparently due to such a big backlash from the community about the initial release quality. I haven't verified that myself, but if true it would certainly make CDProjekt rather against doing another Linux port with anyone.
This is sad, really sad. I hope this makes a few people reconsider their attitude when talking to developer about the performance of ports. Performance can be worked on and fixed, burnt bridges are harder (and sometimes impossible) to fix.
This reminds me of the time the Blizzard President responded to a small petition asking for Linux ports of their games. The response to the petition was really nice to see from such a big company and truthfully the response I fully expected, but the original statement in reply to it from the petition author (now deleted by the author, but captured in my article) was downright childish and idiotic.
Yes problems are annoying, but throwing insults around helps no one and yes it does make us look bad. I get where people are coming from, to an extent, since some games do end up getting left in a terribly broken state for a long time and sometimes forever. However, in this case VP did good and continued working and now, as stated previously, The Witcher 2 seems fine. Their others ports are generally pretty decent too.
I just hope in future that this developer who got a massive amount of hate and CD Projekt RED can look past it somehow, for all the fans of their franchise on Linux.
Note: I personally spoke to this developer about publishing this with their approval, in the hopes that it might get a few people to re-think their initial attitude towards problems in games. Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
I should stress, for our own record here that this is not the official word from Virtual Programming or CD Projekt RED. This is the personal opinion of an ex-VP developer.
Here's the issue: The Linux version of The Witcher 2 was released in a poor state, it had poor performance and just didn't really work well at all. It was later fixed-up and last time I tried it, the performance was absolutely fine for me. The real problem, is the amount of hate that was sent towards the porters Virtual Programming and directly to CD Projekt RED as well. Even I personally saw some of the hate that was sent their way and it was downright idiotic and absolutely uncalled for.
I will absolutely hold my hands up as well, I made mistakes around it since I simply didn't know enough at the time, and to be honest three years ago I was still learning a lot about everything. I later corrected what I said, as I always aim to.
Writing on reddit, this developer said (source):
QuoteI agree, things were not right on release... but the vocality of people went way beyond that. It was an all out hate campaign against VP, against CDPR for "lying about the port being native". I attempted to help people out in my own time and got absolutely roasted and abused for it.
The community needs to realise it simply cannot justify this sort of behaviour if they want to convince devs and publishers to support them. There is no excuse.
It seems we may have also seen a port of The Witcher 1 as well, as the developer also said (source):
QuoteThe vitriol was unbelievable. Yes we messed up the performance on release but we put it right. However a huge hate campaign ensued. Both VP and CDPR got lots of vengeful hate mail sent to them. I cannot help but feel this damaged CDPR's view of the Linux platform irrevocably.
They certainly didnt blame us, because they had us work on a Mac port of Witcher 1 to replace the non-functioning Wineskin version. The same port would have ran on Linux too with very little extra work, but they were not interested in releasing it.
There's also this post from another user, who said at the time The Witcher 2 released for Linux, CDProjekt apparently lost a fair amount on the Warsaw Stock Exchange. Apparently due to such a big backlash from the community about the initial release quality. I haven't verified that myself, but if true it would certainly make CDProjekt rather against doing another Linux port with anyone.
This is sad, really sad. I hope this makes a few people reconsider their attitude when talking to developer about the performance of ports. Performance can be worked on and fixed, burnt bridges are harder (and sometimes impossible) to fix.
This reminds me of the time the Blizzard President responded to a small petition asking for Linux ports of their games. The response to the petition was really nice to see from such a big company and truthfully the response I fully expected, but the original statement in reply to it from the petition author (now deleted by the author, but captured in my article) was downright childish and idiotic.
Yes problems are annoying, but throwing insults around helps no one and yes it does make us look bad. I get where people are coming from, to an extent, since some games do end up getting left in a terribly broken state for a long time and sometimes forever. However, in this case VP did good and continued working and now, as stated previously, The Witcher 2 seems fine. Their others ports are generally pretty decent too.
I just hope in future that this developer who got a massive amount of hate and CD Projekt RED can look past it somehow, for all the fans of their franchise on Linux.
Note: I personally spoke to this developer about publishing this with their approval, in the hopes that it might get a few people to re-think their initial attitude towards problems in games. Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
Some you may have missed, popular articles from the last month:
The comments on this article are closed.
Quoting: GuestQuoting: KimmoKMthe backlash at the time was 100% justified
People emailing me personally saying they hoped i would fucking die was justified?
Those are included in "commenters that without doubt went overboard". There is a difference between comments that stay within topic of quality of port or companies that allowed it to be released, no matter how harshly worded they might be, and commenters that leave the public forum to specifically target an individual who in all likelihood doesn't deserve all the blame.
But you know, I and probably all of us here want Linux to be a good and successful gaming platform, and while it is a fact of life we're going to be second-class citizens for most developers and one that we have to grudgingly accept, there comes a point where you have to draw a line and say "this is not okay", and a product that's worse than what was already available (Wine), in my opinion, clearly falls in that category.
As for the majority of outraged commenters, Linus Torvalds has made this same argument much better than I will (defending his harsh language in LKML with retroactive abortations and usage of Finnish swear words because English isn't potent enough, shouldn't be difficult to find) but the fact of the matter is that in the Internet you can't communicate your seriousness with a tone of voice or body language, and non-native English speakers in particular might lack the vocabulary and understanding of connotations to signify they really mean business without resorting to language you wouldn't see offline. I don't know you or remember any messages targeted at an individual person so presumably I didn't follow the unfolding drama in full back in the day, but I can imagine the language in some of the on-topic posts, and that is business as usual.
Last edited by KimmoKM on 4 July 2017 at 2:28 am UTC
1 Likes, Who?
Quoting: KimmoKMLinus Torvalds has made this same argument much better than I will (defending his harsh language in LKML with retroactive abortations and usage of Finnish swear words because English isn't potent enough) but the fact of the matter is that in the Internet you can't communicate your seriousness with a tone of voice or body language, and non-native English speakers in particular might lack the vocabulary and understanding of connotations to signify they really mean business without resorting to language you wouldn't see offline
Linus Torvalds is a very poor example of proper speech on-line. Most find his justification to be unacceptable.
4 Likes, Who?
Just reading about this all makes me sad. Thanks Jaycee for doing wonderful work getting some VP titles onto Linux. I played through Saints Row 4 with my girlfriend recently, and I am digging into Micro Machines right now and quite enjoying it. I wish the rest of the community were less toxic.
Last edited by Xicronic on 4 July 2017 at 2:32 am UTC
Last edited by Xicronic on 4 July 2017 at 2:32 am UTC
3 Likes, Who?
Personal attacks against developers is indeed unforgivable and should never happen. I'm sorry for what happend to you Jaycee. But i can't beleive that this is the only reason why CDPR canceled the project.
At the time, Valve seems to have done a lot to convince companies to port their games on our platform. Many devs said they would not have done it without Valve. Maybe they were expecting higher sales from TW2.
My bet is CDPR and GOG see us as too small to invest now but they do not want to to close the door either. So they stay in between. Look at what GOG does with Galaxy. It is still supposed to come to Linux "eventually" (see the FAQ), they even maked it "in progress". But 2 years after ... still nothing.
CDPR guys are not stupid, they knew the release was made much too early. The port was not ready for public release. Don't get me wrong, VP did a very good job! The port increased a LOT after release and next ports by VP are very nice. But CDPR could not expect being acclaim with a public release which was mostly unplayable.
So a note to VP: we love you, keep offering us good ports :) To CDPR and GOG: stop hiding behind excuses. If you don't plan to port games/tools on Linux, just say so. Being honest is the best way to build a respectful relationship. But as far i'm concerned, i'm done with CDPR/GOG. There are lots of respectful dev and stores who deserve my money much more.
At the time, Valve seems to have done a lot to convince companies to port their games on our platform. Many devs said they would not have done it without Valve. Maybe they were expecting higher sales from TW2.
My bet is CDPR and GOG see us as too small to invest now but they do not want to to close the door either. So they stay in between. Look at what GOG does with Galaxy. It is still supposed to come to Linux "eventually" (see the FAQ), they even maked it "in progress". But 2 years after ... still nothing.
CDPR guys are not stupid, they knew the release was made much too early. The port was not ready for public release. Don't get me wrong, VP did a very good job! The port increased a LOT after release and next ports by VP are very nice. But CDPR could not expect being acclaim with a public release which was mostly unplayable.
So a note to VP: we love you, keep offering us good ports :) To CDPR and GOG: stop hiding behind excuses. If you don't plan to port games/tools on Linux, just say so. Being honest is the best way to build a respectful relationship. But as far i'm concerned, i'm done with CDPR/GOG. There are lots of respectful dev and stores who deserve my money much more.
2 Likes, Who?
Quoting: TheBardLook at what GOG does with Galaxy. It is still supposed to come to Linux "eventually" (see the FAQ), they even maked it "in progress". But 2 years after ... still nothing.
The Galaxy issue is actually more annoying than "there is no client, so I have to update games manually". It actually can prevent various Linux games from coming out on GOG. I just opened a thread about it here.
Last edited by Shmerl on 4 July 2017 at 3:08 am UTC
0 Likes
Kimyrielle Jul 4, 2017
Quoting: KimmoKMthere comes a point where you have to draw a line and say "this is not okay", and a product that's worse than what was already available (Wine), in my opinion, clearly falls in that category.
As for the majority of outraged commenters, Linus Torvalds has made this same argument much better than I will (defending his harsh language in LKML with retroactive abortations and usage of Finnish swear words because English isn't potent enough, shouldn't be difficult to find) but the fact of the matter is that in the Internet you can't communicate your seriousness with a tone of voice or body language, and non-native English speakers in particular might lack the vocabulary and understanding of connotations to signify they really mean business without resorting to language you wouldn't see offline. I don't know you or remember any messages targeted at an individual person so presumably I didn't follow the unfolding drama in full back in the day, but I can imagine the language in some of the on-topic posts, and that is business as usual.
Any person with half a brain and some manners is able to communicate dissent in a respectful manner. Linus Torvalds is a brilliant programmer, but I don't think there is a way to justify his way his behavior in any shape or fashion. He can be a totally rude jerk, and the fact that he invented the OS of our choice doesn't change that he needs a crash course in basic manners. People who think that immature trash-talk is an acceptable way to talk to others just because they can't see your face or have to show theirs, are pretty much a part of the problem. And please don't tell me that Linus Torvalds can't speak enough English to convey what's on his mind in an acceptable way. That's just laughable. The guy is rude because he IS rude.
I get the idea that we as a community sometimes feel screwed and marginalized. I don't like companies not delivering promised ports. I don't like getting badly optimized and untested software. I don't like getting told that there will be yet another delay, because anything but us is more important than finishing that port. I don't like being told that we don't matter. Or that we just should install Windows if we want to play games. And yet NONE of this gives me to right to get rude.
I find people defending these morons every bit as bad as the morons themselves, really.
5 Likes, Who?
Quoting: GuestQuoting: NyamiouThe idea that a company would judge an entire community over the reaction of a few individuals no matter how loud they can be is completely unacceptable, if CDRP are really like then they got the hate they deserved.
And "they got the hate they deserved" is the problem. People like YOU are exactly the problem.
People like me? WTF? seriously. Also thx for quoting out of context, that's nice.
Seriously, you are a troll trying to turn people of the Linux community against each others. I don't know why you are doing that and I don't understand why people listen to you, but what I know is that they probably shouldn't.
Give me one good reasons you are telling that stuff, even if it were to be the truth, given the harm it does to the community?
Last edited by Nyamiou on 4 July 2017 at 3:13 am UTC
0 Likes
metro2033fanboy Jul 4, 2017
attaboys..just THANKS!
fcking retards!
Last edited by metro2033fanboy on 4 July 2017 at 3:53 am UTC
fcking retards!
Last edited by metro2033fanboy on 4 July 2017 at 3:53 am UTC
0 Likes
qptain Nemo Jul 4, 2017
This theory is unsound. Sure, as is the general consensus in the comments here, personal attacks and unconstructive cruel behavior are bad and never justified and a lot of people are sorry it happened to CDPR, VP and jaycee personally. But the article and jaycee's theory lump it together with the rationale behind the fate of the Witcher 3 port. Indeed, the article is titled "The Witcher 3 didn't come to Linux likely as a result of the user-backlash from The Witcher 2". No, it's really not likely at all. If it was true it would be quite an anomaly, simply because... let's just count the developers who said things like "1% of the market, 50% of bug reports, too little money, too much effort" and developers who said "we won't support Linux because Linux players are rude". Oh, yes. Yep. The ratio would be something like 1000 to 0 I reckon. The fact that our main competitor on PC harbors around 95% of the relevant userbase inevitably means that it includes the majority of the most toxic people around. And while, again, their behavior doesn't excuse anyone else's, it'd be somehow both unimaginably naive and hypocritical to view toxic people in the Linux community as in any way representative while successfully tolerating uncivilized people everywhere else. Furthermore, unlike Linux, Xbox actually has a bit of a reputation for having a toxic community, and will you look at that, The Witcher 3 is available for XboxOne. Huh!
As creators and successful ones at that, CDPR are probably well beyond the point of accepting the presence of people who are going to be very negative for the sake of those who will be joyful and grateful (and profitable). And a lot of people would be very happy and grateful if they brought The Witcher 3 to Linux, they gotta understand that.
I very much agree with what Csharp and Kels have said here. And also there is that timeline that Shmerl posted that sounds pretty damning.
As creators and successful ones at that, CDPR are probably well beyond the point of accepting the presence of people who are going to be very negative for the sake of those who will be joyful and grateful (and profitable). And a lot of people would be very happy and grateful if they brought The Witcher 3 to Linux, they gotta understand that.
I very much agree with what Csharp and Kels have said here. And also there is that timeline that Shmerl posted that sounds pretty damning.
4 Likes, Who?
Patreon
PayPal
See more from me