The Witcher 3 is something Linux users have been practically begging to have, but the problem is that it seems it will likely never come to Linux. An ex-Virtual Programming developer has taken to reddit explaining why this may have happened.
I should stress, for our own record here that this is not the official word from Virtual Programming or CD Projekt RED. This is the personal opinion of an ex-VP developer.
Here's the issue: The Linux version of The Witcher 2 was released in a poor state, it had poor performance and just didn't really work well at all. It was later fixed-up and last time I tried it, the performance was absolutely fine for me. The real problem, is the amount of hate that was sent towards the porters Virtual Programming and directly to CD Projekt RED as well. Even I personally saw some of the hate that was sent their way and it was downright idiotic and absolutely uncalled for.
I will absolutely hold my hands up as well, I made mistakes around it since I simply didn't know enough at the time, and to be honest three years ago I was still learning a lot about everything. I later corrected what I said, as I always aim to.
Writing on reddit, this developer said (source):
It seems we may have also seen a port of The Witcher 1 as well, as the developer also said (source):
There's also this post from another user, who said at the time The Witcher 2 released for Linux, CDProjekt apparently lost a fair amount on the Warsaw Stock Exchange. Apparently due to such a big backlash from the community about the initial release quality. I haven't verified that myself, but if true it would certainly make CDProjekt rather against doing another Linux port with anyone.
This is sad, really sad. I hope this makes a few people reconsider their attitude when talking to developer about the performance of ports. Performance can be worked on and fixed, burnt bridges are harder (and sometimes impossible) to fix.
This reminds me of the time the Blizzard President responded to a small petition asking for Linux ports of their games. The response to the petition was really nice to see from such a big company and truthfully the response I fully expected, but the original statement in reply to it from the petition author (now deleted by the author, but captured in my article) was downright childish and idiotic.
Yes problems are annoying, but throwing insults around helps no one and yes it does make us look bad. I get where people are coming from, to an extent, since some games do end up getting left in a terribly broken state for a long time and sometimes forever. However, in this case VP did good and continued working and now, as stated previously, The Witcher 2 seems fine. Their others ports are generally pretty decent too.
I just hope in future that this developer who got a massive amount of hate and CD Projekt RED can look past it somehow, for all the fans of their franchise on Linux.
Note: I personally spoke to this developer about publishing this with their approval, in the hopes that it might get a few people to re-think their initial attitude towards problems in games. Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
I should stress, for our own record here that this is not the official word from Virtual Programming or CD Projekt RED. This is the personal opinion of an ex-VP developer.
Here's the issue: The Linux version of The Witcher 2 was released in a poor state, it had poor performance and just didn't really work well at all. It was later fixed-up and last time I tried it, the performance was absolutely fine for me. The real problem, is the amount of hate that was sent towards the porters Virtual Programming and directly to CD Projekt RED as well. Even I personally saw some of the hate that was sent their way and it was downright idiotic and absolutely uncalled for.
I will absolutely hold my hands up as well, I made mistakes around it since I simply didn't know enough at the time, and to be honest three years ago I was still learning a lot about everything. I later corrected what I said, as I always aim to.
Writing on reddit, this developer said (source):
QuoteI agree, things were not right on release... but the vocality of people went way beyond that. It was an all out hate campaign against VP, against CDPR for "lying about the port being native". I attempted to help people out in my own time and got absolutely roasted and abused for it.
The community needs to realise it simply cannot justify this sort of behaviour if they want to convince devs and publishers to support them. There is no excuse.
It seems we may have also seen a port of The Witcher 1 as well, as the developer also said (source):
QuoteThe vitriol was unbelievable. Yes we messed up the performance on release but we put it right. However a huge hate campaign ensued. Both VP and CDPR got lots of vengeful hate mail sent to them. I cannot help but feel this damaged CDPR's view of the Linux platform irrevocably.
They certainly didnt blame us, because they had us work on a Mac port of Witcher 1 to replace the non-functioning Wineskin version. The same port would have ran on Linux too with very little extra work, but they were not interested in releasing it.
There's also this post from another user, who said at the time The Witcher 2 released for Linux, CDProjekt apparently lost a fair amount on the Warsaw Stock Exchange. Apparently due to such a big backlash from the community about the initial release quality. I haven't verified that myself, but if true it would certainly make CDProjekt rather against doing another Linux port with anyone.
This is sad, really sad. I hope this makes a few people reconsider their attitude when talking to developer about the performance of ports. Performance can be worked on and fixed, burnt bridges are harder (and sometimes impossible) to fix.
This reminds me of the time the Blizzard President responded to a small petition asking for Linux ports of their games. The response to the petition was really nice to see from such a big company and truthfully the response I fully expected, but the original statement in reply to it from the petition author (now deleted by the author, but captured in my article) was downright childish and idiotic.
Yes problems are annoying, but throwing insults around helps no one and yes it does make us look bad. I get where people are coming from, to an extent, since some games do end up getting left in a terribly broken state for a long time and sometimes forever. However, in this case VP did good and continued working and now, as stated previously, The Witcher 2 seems fine. Their others ports are generally pretty decent too.
I just hope in future that this developer who got a massive amount of hate and CD Projekt RED can look past it somehow, for all the fans of their franchise on Linux.
Note: I personally spoke to this developer about publishing this with their approval, in the hopes that it might get a few people to re-think their initial attitude towards problems in games. Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
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Respectfully, I disagree.<snip>
I just want people to think a little more, but it's clear from people like "Nyamiou" that we have a lot of work to do. And yes, I know, you will never be able to make a community better than it is, but I will die trying ;)
Anyway...back to actual work for me
His posts were probably in bad taste, but the way you react to these things... Liam, I know this is your site, however the way you react to posts you don't like paints a pretty poor picture of your character. We can all encourage others to behave better but, as you yourself demonstrated by calling this guy out (in a VERY unprofessional way), you should probably work on yourself before trying to help others. *snipped the rest*
So you agree his posts were in bad taste, but it's "VERY" unprofessional of me to call out toxic and abusive behaviour in my own website comments? I really don't get the logic there. It is not user shaming (as you called it) to use the quote function to make it clear certain types of comments won't be tolerated.
99% of people here appreciate how I run and moderate the site, in fact many people constantly tell me it's why they keep coming back here because the community I've helped mould is generally pretty decent.
Last edited by Liam Dawe on 4 Jul 2017 at 7:48 pm UTC
7 Likes, Who?
The idea that a company would judge an entire community over the reaction of a few individuals no matter how loud they can be is completely unacceptable, if CDRP are really like then they got the hate they deserved.
And "they got the hate they deserved" is the problem. People like YOU are exactly the problem.
People like me? WTF? seriously. Also thx for quoting out of context, that's nice.
Seriously, you are a troll trying to turn people of the Linux community against each others. I don't know why you are doing that and I don't understand why people listen to you, but what I know is that they probably shouldn't.
Give me one good reasons you are telling that stuff, even if it were to be the truth, given the harm it does to the community?
You started to troll here, at least that's what it looks like to me. Please stop that, and please, _please_ stop anything directly against any particular person.
I'm not trolling, I'm making an argument about a subject that is important to me. The Linux gaming community continually takes blow and we got an habit of showing the other cheek, which is nice, but sometimes you got to stand and fight for what is right. The Linux community is not a hanful of haters, I will not let anyone say that and I will not let any Linux gamer admit it just so we can get the "pardon" of any gaming company. This has gone too far, we can't let think like that pass, and we cannot accept that company treat us like we are a handful of haters either.
But anyway I'm not suprised by your reaction, everytime a Linux gamer try to speak up for all the injustice that we get, someone come to shut him down, too afraid that the big companies might not like us anymore if we speak up. The result is that today Linux gamers are not respected anymore.
1 Likes, Who?
This whole discussion leaves a bad taste of victim blaming in me.
1 Likes, Who?
The idea that a company would judge an entire community over the reaction of a few individuals no matter how loud they can be is completely unacceptable, if CDRP are really like then they got the hate they deserved.
And "they got the hate they deserved" is the problem. People like YOU are exactly the problem.
People like me? WTF? seriously.
Sure. Since you consider that a company deserves hate (because of a product not meeting some people's expectations).
You should apply for a job in the Trump administration.
Bingo, congratulations on taking what I'm saying out of context and then laugthing at me for how silly this sound. You must be proud.
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Btw, I tried contacting CDPR to clarify their stance on this. I don't really expect them to comment, but who knows.
3 Likes, Who?
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walther von stolzing 4 Jul 2017
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So it's more like:
View video on youtube.com
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camoceltic 4 Jul 2017
Regarding the abuse that I'm pretty certain happened (regardless of amount): Yeah, those people suck massively. There is no excuse for threats or abuse, especially when the reason is bad performance of a game. I say that as someone who won't buy a VP ported game: Abusing people over a game is ridiculous.
That said, there is no way I'm buying the "Witcher 3 may not have been ported thanks to user backlash" thing. If it were from VP, that makes no sense thanks to the fact that they're still porting games to it. If it were from CDPR, it makes some sense since they've not released a Linux-compatible game since (AFAIK), but the weird "It may come if SteamOS takes off, it's in development, no wait it isn't, what port we never said anything about a port, oh wait that last person didn't know what they were talking about" situation makes me really question it.
My best guess, understanding that I am in no way connected to anyone involved and haven't followed the situation closely so this is 100% speculation, is that it started as a "maybe". They were probably having VP port Witcher 2 to test the waters or to have the port done while they worked on Witcher 3. When the Witcher 2 port was released... nothing changed. They were still supposedly working on the Witcher 3 port into 2015, the year AFTER Witcher 2 was ported and when most of the hate would have happened. I'm GUESSING that what happened was that they may have realized the project was too big to port in-house like they were probably doing, there was some big problem that can't be fixed, or something similar. I think that (plus some miscommunication) would explain the weird confirmed/unconfirmed problem: Game started in development with port in mind, problems caused it to be put on the shelf, etc.
That said, I'm 150% speculating there and really can't say anything for certain.
That said, there is no way I'm buying the "Witcher 3 may not have been ported thanks to user backlash" thing. If it were from VP, that makes no sense thanks to the fact that they're still porting games to it. If it were from CDPR, it makes some sense since they've not released a Linux-compatible game since (AFAIK), but the weird "It may come if SteamOS takes off, it's in development, no wait it isn't, what port we never said anything about a port, oh wait that last person didn't know what they were talking about" situation makes me really question it.
My best guess, understanding that I am in no way connected to anyone involved and haven't followed the situation closely so this is 100% speculation, is that it started as a "maybe". They were probably having VP port Witcher 2 to test the waters or to have the port done while they worked on Witcher 3. When the Witcher 2 port was released... nothing changed. They were still supposedly working on the Witcher 3 port into 2015, the year AFTER Witcher 2 was ported and when most of the hate would have happened. I'm GUESSING that what happened was that they may have realized the project was too big to port in-house like they were probably doing, there was some big problem that can't be fixed, or something similar. I think that (plus some miscommunication) would explain the weird confirmed/unconfirmed problem: Game started in development with port in mind, problems caused it to be put on the shelf, etc.
That said, I'm 150% speculating there and really can't say anything for certain.
3 Likes, Who?
...snip...
I'm not trolling, I'm making an argument about a subject that is important to me. The Linux gaming community continually takes blow and we got an habit of showing the other cheek, which is nice, but sometimes you got to stand and fight for what is right. The Linux community is not a hanful of haters, I will not let anyone say that and I will not let any Linux gamer admit it just so we can get the "pardon" of any gaming company. This has gone too far, we can't let think like that pass, and we cannot accept that company treat us like we are a handful of haters either.
But anyway I'm not suprised by your reaction, everytime a Linux gamer try to speak up for all the injustice that we get, someone come to shut him down, too afraid that the big companies might not like us anymore if we speak up. The result is that today Linux gamers are not respected anymore.
Well, guess what - there was a handful of haters going on! I'm saying it. The community was atrocious to VP. That happened, that was public, and I suggest you deal with it. It wasn't criticism, it was hatred.
You can speak up against companies that do shit to GNU/Linux, but it doesn't mean that GNU/Linux gamers (in this case) are perfect either. Door swings both ways. In this case, why doesn't someone who received so much crap from the community have the right to say that he received all that crap?
I don't think what happened to jaycee in particular is indicative of the community at large, and I don't think it's what things are like in general for most devs. But I also recognise that it's what it's like for him. Continued attacks on him and refusal to accept the situation is only going to reinforce his view....and quite honestly, it's making me think less of large portions of the community too.
You are not getting it, this hate wasn't from this community. I don't remember any pillars of the community either here or on reddit saying that we should send death threat or personal attacks to VP or CDPR or anyone at all, I don't even remember seeing any of this attacks and contrary to some people here might believe I wasn't certainly part of it and if you go back and find the threads you'll see that when the backlash happened I was among the guys defending VP (unlike liam).
I'd suggest you to search the threads again and read them yourself, and then you tell me if it were about people complaining about having paid for a non-playable game and bad communication or if it was hatred like you said.
I just want people to think a little more, but it's clear from people like "Nyamiou" that we have a lot of work to do. And yes, I know, you will never be able to make a community better than it is, but I will die trying ;)
You have a very selective memory, you were part of the backlash yourself and I wasn't.
Last edited by Nyamiou on 4 Jul 2017 at 10:23 pm UTC
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Here's the thing, part of my job is to report on things. I reported it accurately on how it performed at the time, but I was working against the clock as back then VP were not in contact with us so the port arrived completely unexpected with no warning. I had to quickly piece together as much information as I could find. And if you bothered to read the article, you would note what I said about mistakes being made at the time.I just want people to think a little more, but it's clear from people like "Nyamiou" that we have a lot of work to do. And yes, I know, you will never be able to make a community better than it is, but I will die trying ;)
You have a very selective memory, you were part of the backlash yourself and I wasn't.
I also made sure to cover it when it was patched, to show how far it had come. This is what I do, this is my job.
Learn the difference between being critical and being hateful.
Anyway, this is going in circles with strong opinions on each side. I personally won't be commenting on it any further and if it derails too far comments will end up getting locked. Keep emotions in check please everyone :)
1 Likes, Who?
I'm GUESSING that what happened was that they may have realized the project was too big to port in-house like they were probably doing, there was some big problem that can't be fixed, or something similar. I think that (plus some miscommunication) would explain the weird confirmed/unconfirmed problem: Game started in development with port in mind, problems caused it to be put on the shelf, etc.
I'd guess something similar. They probably started the porting (in-house, or with external porters like VP), and that effort hit some major technical setbacks, or the effort was substantial and more than they anticipated, and they didn't want to pay for it. TW3 is no small deal - technically it's quite more complicated than TW2. Just look at how Wine developers are chiseling at it, even though they are making good progress.
Speaking of which, it would be nice for CDPR to partner with Codeweavers and fund more of that development (improving performance for example).
Last edited by Shmerl on 4 Jul 2017 at 10:39 pm UTC
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I also made sure to cover it when it was patched, to show how far it had come. This is what I do, this is my job.
Learn the difference between being critical and being hateful.
I didn't say you were hateful, quite the contrary actually if you read the whole post.
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Hold tight guys, we probably making too much out of this. It surely does not help linux gaming to "bash" devs and porters.
I understand the disappointment, but we have to carry on and continue to be patient and helpful for the devs like we usually do.
It's the tone that makes the music. "your port is crap and perf sucks" and "A couple of users observed performance issue with your recent port, here are my specs: Ryzen R40k , 2Tb of DDR12..." is a different way of saying the same thing. But at the end of the day it makes a big difference.
On top of that being on a good mood when you face problems, even if does not help solving it, as least avoids adding more problem to it :p
I'm not trying to school anyone. But some have to understand that words on the internet have consequences even if we don't see each other faces. Some of these people will probably not change, but at least if we don't flame them and answer them calmly with respect it won't make the fire too big to be extinguished.
We are on an open source OS which has a totally different philosophy from mac and windows. I think it implies that we continue to behave openly and show that our OS choice is also a matter of ideal that we all have.
Honestly there is not that many studios taking us for wallet scum. And I'm quite gratefull that we have so many great devs and great indie people willing to do their best. The same also goes for our community ambassadors.
To conclude (sorry for the big paragraph), many devs appreciate our community. It takes everyone a little restraint in order to carry on with those amazing last years that we had thanks to all of you.
Simply keep up with the good penguin vibe. Keep your extinguisher near you, and peace!
Last edited by Jahimself on 4 Jul 2017 at 11:19 pm UTC
I understand the disappointment, but we have to carry on and continue to be patient and helpful for the devs like we usually do.
It's the tone that makes the music. "your port is crap and perf sucks" and "A couple of users observed performance issue with your recent port, here are my specs: Ryzen R40k , 2Tb of DDR12..." is a different way of saying the same thing. But at the end of the day it makes a big difference.
On top of that being on a good mood when you face problems, even if does not help solving it, as least avoids adding more problem to it :p
I'm not trying to school anyone. But some have to understand that words on the internet have consequences even if we don't see each other faces. Some of these people will probably not change, but at least if we don't flame them and answer them calmly with respect it won't make the fire too big to be extinguished.
We are on an open source OS which has a totally different philosophy from mac and windows. I think it implies that we continue to behave openly and show that our OS choice is also a matter of ideal that we all have.
Honestly there is not that many studios taking us for wallet scum. And I'm quite gratefull that we have so many great devs and great indie people willing to do their best. The same also goes for our community ambassadors.
To conclude (sorry for the big paragraph), many devs appreciate our community. It takes everyone a little restraint in order to carry on with those amazing last years that we had thanks to all of you.
Simply keep up with the good penguin vibe. Keep your extinguisher near you, and peace!
Last edited by Jahimself on 4 Jul 2017 at 11:19 pm UTC
1 Likes, Who?
Ok so after reading through this wave of chaotic comments I just had to signup for the sole reason of posting this comment.
First off we are second class citizens when it comes to video games. This is a fact so accept it and deal with it.
Second, unless you've been living under a rock this entire time then you know there are going to be issues when a company first releases a game for Linux without prior experience of doing so in the past. Hell even Feral ports are never perfect the moment they go up for sale and they have a lot of experience in this department. So expecting that TW2 was going to be all fine and dandy the moment you got your hands on it was just plain ignorant.
Third, before you EVER make a purchase you have to ask yourself; Do I want to be one of those to purchase at release and help them identify bugs and possibly find workarounds/fixes so that they can share with others what you've done? If not, wait! This website usually covers things like this so coming here you can find out if it's ready for you to plug and play so to speak.
No one forced you buy the game! If the company does not listen to feedback on helping improve the game then simply abstain from purchasing anything from them in the future it's as simple as that.
The biggest point I want to make is if your not willing to go through hardships to make Linux a better platform by participating its growth then you really shouldn't be using Linux at all for the desktop. We don't want you! The only way Linux will ever become a first class citizen is if we the community help make that dream a reality.
Constructive criticism is great and in fact needed. Undeserving personal attacks on another human being make me sad the earth had to subjected to the weight of your ego.
p.s when I say Linux, I am referring to GNU/Linux
m(^-^)m
First off we are second class citizens when it comes to video games. This is a fact so accept it and deal with it.
Second, unless you've been living under a rock this entire time then you know there are going to be issues when a company first releases a game for Linux without prior experience of doing so in the past. Hell even Feral ports are never perfect the moment they go up for sale and they have a lot of experience in this department. So expecting that TW2 was going to be all fine and dandy the moment you got your hands on it was just plain ignorant.
Third, before you EVER make a purchase you have to ask yourself; Do I want to be one of those to purchase at release and help them identify bugs and possibly find workarounds/fixes so that they can share with others what you've done? If not, wait! This website usually covers things like this so coming here you can find out if it's ready for you to plug and play so to speak.
No one forced you buy the game! If the company does not listen to feedback on helping improve the game then simply abstain from purchasing anything from them in the future it's as simple as that.
The biggest point I want to make is if your not willing to go through hardships to make Linux a better platform by participating its growth then you really shouldn't be using Linux at all for the desktop. We don't want you! The only way Linux will ever become a first class citizen is if we the community help make that dream a reality.
Constructive criticism is great and in fact needed. Undeserving personal attacks on another human being make me sad the earth had to subjected to the weight of your ego.
p.s when I say Linux, I am referring to GNU/Linux
m(^-^)m
3 Likes, Who?
I don't want to say what I really think about this statement because it borders on vitriol. Let me just say that it doesn't matter if they don't want to support my platform of choice, there's plenty of others that do.
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4 Likes, Who?
Well, they're right. But it was back the days, and I think we learned to be calmer by now. I remember that I was pretty disappointed that I couldn't play it on my rig (even meeting the specs), but kept my manners. It was one of the first AAA we got and everyone was looking forward to it. It was the first port we got really having huge issues. VP being new, not really native (I still say who cares as long as it works reasonably well), and the release was bad didn't help.
I think a lot of us learned in the past years. I was rather grateful that VP invested a lot of time and effort in fixing up TW2.
I hope VP has learned of their mistake pushing out the release with a performance like that isn't good. And I hope we've learned to work constructively with devs rather than being rude, bad attitude does not help, it gets us nowhere.
I think a lot of us learned in the past years. I was rather grateful that VP invested a lot of time and effort in fixing up TW2.
I hope VP has learned of their mistake pushing out the release with a performance like that isn't good. And I hope we've learned to work constructively with devs rather than being rude, bad attitude does not help, it gets us nowhere.
2 Likes, Who?
Here's no place for the drama like this, seriously guys. It's a business. Everyone should be prepared for the stuff like this. I've heard that someone thrown bad fries in the face to McDonald's employer, but that's doesn't mean that Mc will start blocking this person or employer will never serve fries for him again, they will start from the cause, will make fries better. It's really silly behaviour.
Ps: Duck the moralists.
PPs: I'm not one of them.
PPPs: I'm sorry for the bad eng.
Ps: Duck the moralists.
PPs: I'm not one of them.
PPPs: I'm sorry for the bad eng.
0 Likes
Here's no place for the drama like this, seriously guys. It's a business. Everyone should be prepared for the stuff like this. I've heard that someone thrown bad fries in the face to McDonald's employer, but that's doesn't mean that Mc will start blocking this person or employer will never serve fries for him again, they will start from the cause, will make fries better. It's really silly behaviour.
Ps: Duck the moralists.
PPs: I'm not one of them.
PPPs: I'm sorry for the bad eng.
Errr no, McDonald most likely will ban serving to that guy, at least locally. There are some red lines of decency you just don't cross, don't matter how disappointed you are as customer.
Anyway, I also believe we are more calmer and more approachable now. There have been some damage from this, obviously. But many loud Linux gamers have realized that giving feedback and just being decent will bring results faster than throwing tantrums. And that's hopefully achievement that sticks.
2 Likes, Who?
Here's no place for the drama like this, seriously guys. It's a business. Everyone should be prepared for the stuff like this. I've heard that someone thrown bad fries in the face to McDonald's employer, but that's doesn't mean that Mc will start blocking this person or employer will never serve fries for him again, they will start from the cause, will make fries better. It's really silly behaviour.
Ps: Duck the moralists.
PPs: I'm not one of them.
PPPs: I'm sorry for the bad eng.
Errr no, McDonald most likely will ban serving to that guy, at least locally. There are some red lines of decency you just don't cross, don't matter how disappointed you are as customer.
Anyway, I also believe we are more calmer and more approachable now. There have been some damage from this, obviously. But many loud Linux gamers have realized that giving feedback and just being decent will bring results faster than throwing tantrums. And that's hopefully achievement that sticks.
Well then our Mc are different, but you should've get the point. It's business, and customers are different, they might be drunk, they might be crazy or they might be calm, and blocking entire market because of some WIFI threats is not good. Because probably it's nothing than WIFI threats. And duck yeah, they in USA or Europe, so just go to the police, and you'll be alright
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