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PayPalIt’s been a long time since I’ve done this, but here’s part 5 in the series of me talking to developers about how their games have been selling on Linux.
If you missed the previous articles: part 1, part 2, part 3, part 4.
Beamdog
For those who don’t recognise the name, Beamdog are the people behind revamps of classic RPG titles like Planescape: Torment: Enhanced Edition and Baldur's Gate: Enhanced Edition.
They gave some details about how Planescape: Torment: Enhanced Edition sold on Steam:
- 91.74% - Windows
- 6.22% - Mac
- 2.04% - Linux
Additionally, they also gave details about install numbers from their own Beamdog client:
- 91.13% - Windows
- 6.38% - Mac
- 2.49% - Linux
Here’s what Beamdog CTO, Scott Brooks had to say about Linux support:
QuoteWe really think the Infinity Engine games are something special and work hard to bring them to people that might not otherwise be able to play them. We've worked with professional and volunteer translators to help bring Baldur's Gate: Enhanced Edition to 14 languages, and we add things like Story Mode to help people who otherwise would have a hard time playing these great games. We've ported an engine that was originally built in the 16bit to 32bit transition to 64bit in order to let people continue enjoying these games. There are people on Linux that would love to play our games specifically on Linux, and we would love to let them.
Also, if you missed it I did an interview with Beamdog before, you can see that here.
MidBoss
MidBoss, the roguelike where you possess the bodies of your enemies released with Day-1 Linux support back in May. Here’s the figures their developer gave:
- 93.4 - Windows
- 4.7% - Mac
- 1.9% - Linux
Here’s what the developer of MidBoss had to say about supporting Linux now and in future:
QuoteI feel pretty good about supporting both platforms in MidBoss, particularly since Ethan Lee who made FNA did the ports and it wasn't too expensive. Without him they probably wouldn't have happened.
In the future I'll be using a new, completely custom framework that can create .NET executables as well as JavaScript/WebGL builds from a single C# codebase. We're planning to initially use the web builds with Electron to keep supporting Mac and Linux. This should perform just fine for smaller games such as Ultra Hat Dimension which is probably coming out on Steam in early 2018.
When we do wind up doing a bigger more demanding game again (MidBoss 2? Who knows!) I'll investigate getting the .NET versions working on Mac and Linux too. The .NET side uses OpenTK/OpenGL so it shouldn't be that difficult, hopefully, we just don't have the time/resources right now to go into it.
Milkstone Studios
To my surprise, Milkstone Studios were very open and sent over details about multiple titles!
White Noise 2
- 95.31% - Windows
- 4.06% - OSX
- 0.64% - Linux
Only Linux details given for these:
- Little Racers Street: 12.05%
- Pharaonic: 4.59%
- Ziggurat: 2.19%
- White Noise Online: 0.96%
It’s worth noting, that just before the release of Little Racers Street, I did an interview with Milkstone Studios about the title. That may have helped towards the rather high Linux percentage there.
Here’s what they said about continuing to support Linux:
Milkstone StudiosSeeing these numbers, look like Linux players are more used to single player experiences, so that might be the reason.
We support Linux on a pretty basic level (we're not Linux users ourselves, so we have limited experience with it). Linux support takes up lots of support time (I'd say around 20-25% of our support time is dedicated to addressing Linux issues), and it's hard to justify dedicating our time to this platform if sales for it are low. However, Unity allows for easy generation of Linux builds, and most of the work required for a proper port was done with Ziggurat, so for now we'll continue releasing games with Linux support, and trying to solve issues to the best of our knowledge.
While they weren’t able to give any specific details, I did speak to two of the bigger porters Feral Interactive and Aspyr Media.
Here’s what Feral Interactive had to say:
QuoteThe Linux market remains small in comparison to Mac, and tiny compared to Windows. Three years of bringing AAA games to Linux has taught us a lot about what works in sales terms, and what works less well. Although we had hoped that the Steam Machine would gain more traction, we have been pleasantly surprised by the Linux sales achieved on distros other than SteamOS, and continually encouraged by the passionate (and vocal!) audience of Linux gamers. However, we are disappointed by the promotion of piracy by some, which does disproportionate damage to the economics of bringing games to an already small platform.
Take a look at what Aspyr Media said:
QuoteOur Linux business continues to be an important part of our strategy going forward. We consider Linux a viable platform, and continue to make it a target goal of any deal we strike.
I did reach out to Virtual Programming, but they were extremely busy and didn't have time.
I would like to thank everyone who got back to me. Sadly some didn’t reply, but given how busy developers are actually making games, it’s all good!
Some you may have missed, popular articles from the last month:
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Mountain Man Aug 2, 2017
unfortunally i do not see this getting any better.i mean if we had a game that was linux only and it was a decent game where people would be dying to play it maybe just maybe it would get some interest.i don't want to be negative but i have been watching this the past 2 years and unless something drastic happens with windows 10 where people mass flood away from it we are just gonna be that small market.i so want linux to be huge but people are not giving it a chance or just too afraid to try it.Most people look at it this way:
"Do I want to keep using Windows and have access to all of the games, or switch to Linux and have access to only a fraction of them?"
As long as that disparity exists, Windows will always come out ahead.
3 Likes, Who?
Kimyrielle Aug 2, 2017
Basically, Apple wants to tax cross platform developers. In this sense, they are worse than MS these days.
They are worse than MS in -every- regard. It wasn't MS who invented locked-down operating systems and monopolized software distribution giving them complete and exclusive control on what you do with YOUR device. Honestly, in terms of disgusting business practices, I'd argue Apple is easily the most evil technology company on Earth. I find it laughably how this company gets defended by its hordes of hipster fanboys, hipster fangirls and hipster design studios just because Apple products are apparently more "cool" than anything else. I dunno, I rather have a less "cool" product that performs way better, allows me to do what I want to do, and costs way less to boot.
Back on topic, I actually think the numbers aren't THAT bad - we seem to outdo our actual market share in the desktop OS market, even (which most think is a bit less than 2%). The only downside of this is that despite Linux gaming has been vastly improving over the past few years, our numbers do not trend upwards at all. We have been given a load of indie games, a meaningful selection of AAA titles (come on, what other than MMOs -don't- we have these days?), better drivers, better distros - and we're still roughly where we started. Windows 10 is definitely disappointing people and Mac never has been a good gaming platform, so one should think at least some would give Linux a shot?
6 Likes, Who?
Milkstone studios says, "We support Linux on a pretty basic level (we're not Linux users ourselves, so we have limited experience with it)," and then complains about low sales.This kind of attitude from some people is silly. For most developers Linux is a low priority, since we are usually much lower revenue. It's only natural really. I don't see where they are complaining either, as you say it. I also don't get how you can say we are treating their games like an afterthought (since their games have sold reasonbly well on Linux). Honestly, some people need to drop the bloody attitude.
Here's an idea: maybe if you didn't treat Linux like an afterthought then Linux gamers wouldn't treat your games like an afterthought.
I appreciate all developers putting out Linux versions if they work well. Milkstone's games do usually work very well.
Last edited by Liam Dawe on 2 August 2017 at 6:10 pm UTC
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I'd argue Apple is easily the most evil technology company on Earth.
I share the sentiment :) Though Apple are just more visible than some. There are many crooks around, which just don't get into public eye. Qualcomm for instance?
Back on topic, I actually think the numbers aren't THAT bad - we seem to outdo our actual market share in the desktop OS market, even (which most think is a bit less than 2%).
The numbers actually match well what's reported by Net Market Share.
1 Likes, Who?
Integration is key for Apple. That's why they insist on their own solutions -- it simply works for them.Not really - more crucially, it works against the consumer's rights and their ability to stop using Apple's products. Which does indeed "work for them", but just not in the "isn't Apple clever by leveraging all these synergies" way that I suspect you intended that sentence to be taken.
I just don't like this sentiment of the "evil" Apple corporation and their "cultish and blind" following. That's just crap.Maybe you just haven't been around in IT long enough, but there's plenty of evidence of multiple despicable practices by both Microsoft and Apple that, in my opinion, fully qualifies them for the "evil" tag.
We as Linux gamers should be glad that there's a successful operating system similar to ours, which makes it easier for developers to take a risk and spend additional time and money for a Linux version.Perhaps, but I doubt this is true. It's more likely, I think, that Apple's existence is now hurting Linux's chances at platform support. Maybe not at the beginning of the "revolution" four or five years ago, but now that Linux has a foothold on Steam, it's competing against Apple just as much as MS. Worse, Apple's decisions in the gaming space are going to further hurt the likelihood of Linux platform support, since they're not supporting Vulkan.
But enough Apple bashing. About a year ago, I made a conscience decision to try to define myself by what I love, rather than what I hate. I was doing too much MS and Apple-bashing and it's really not a good place to be. When a vendor approaches me to sell a product and his pitch bashes on his competition, I'm waaaaay less likely to view that vendor in a positive light.
So now, when someone asks me "why do you hate MS/Apple?", I'll answer by the question by telling them how much Ubuntu rocks and why. Use what you want, sure, but here's a better way. And it's easy! And free! And full of freedom!
I used to say "I don't use Linux because it's better, I use Linux because it's the right thing to do". No need to say that now. Now I can just say "I use Linux because it's better. In every way that matters to me".
I'll check back later, but for now, Tacoma is calling...
7 Likes, Who?
By AAA i mean ; Doom 2016 , Wolfenstein 2 , Witcher 3 , Skyrim , Fallout 4 , Battlefield 1 , Overwatch etc.Good list, with one problem: I'd only buy two of those titles if they were all available on Linux. That was my point about what everyone thinks "AAA" means. It's a pretty useless tag these days.
However, you've inspired me to create a new tag in my Steam library. Behold!
http://imgur.com/1uf45Ku
Apologies for my stitching skills - I'm not very good with gimp. And I took the screenshot on my laptop, so I only have like two of them installed.
But not a bad list for a three year old platform, I reckon. And missing some big titles that don't appeal to me, like the latest Dirt Rally, F1 2016 and Civ VI. Amongst others, I'm sure. This is just my take on the list.
Being honest, there's only a small list of games I'd really like to see on Linux right now that isn't:
Dishonoured 2, Elite:Dangerous, Nier:Automata, and the two you mentioned above, Leopard, being Overwatch and Skyrim.
Hopefully by the end of 2017, we'll have an even bigger list to choose from, but I'm pretty spoiled for choice right now.
Last edited by scaine on 2 August 2017 at 6:56 pm UTC
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qptain Nemo Aug 2, 2017
Oh, boy. Are you kidding? macOS -- unlike iOS -- is an open platform just like Linux.You're calling a platform that is literally illegal to crosscompile to (more precisely, no legal way exists yet and all other ways are explicitly made illegal by Apple) open just like Linux? Who's kidding now? :)
So now, when someone asks me "why do you hate MS/Apple?", I'll answer by the question by telling them how much Ubuntu rocks and why. Use what you want, sure, but here's a better way. And it's easy! And free! And full of freedom!I agree with this attitude 300%. In fact I personally would further advocate not to say "I use Linux because it's better" because that still defines Linux through Windows/Mac/whatever, which is unnecessary and makes it seem secondary rather than worthy on its own, but "I use Linux because it's good and I like it a lot".
I used to say "I don't use Linux because it's better, I use Linux because it's the right thing to do". No need to say that now. Now I can just say "I use Linux because it's better. In every way that matters to me".
4 Likes, Who?
I just wanted to say:
Bethesda, I am willing to pay approximately $60 for a Linux port of Skyrim or ESO.
I have certainly seen people repurchase games when going between different consoles or MS Windows, usually there the only discount is the normal drop from release price that happens as the game ages.
Bethesda, I am willing to pay approximately $60 for a Linux port of Skyrim or ESO.
I have certainly seen people repurchase games when going between different consoles or MS Windows, usually there the only discount is the normal drop from release price that happens as the game ages.
1 Likes, Who?
A lot of this discussion has revolved around whether the amount and type of games now available on Linux is enough to drive adoption. And a lot of it seems rather simplistic to me. Everyone's talking as if there is one guy who buys all the computers and if you meet his conditions, all the sales could be Linux, but if you don't, we're stuck where we are. But that's not how the world is. There are people currently running Windows or Mac who play no games or just solitaire/minesweeper, there are people who play a few games casually but really only need a few to keep them happy, there are people who play games moderately, there are "hard core gamers". And there are a whole lot of other sorts of needs that have similar dimensions--photography, CAD, accounting, whatever.
For "hard core gamers", by most definitions, Linux is not a good platform right now. Workable, but unless you had some other overriding reason you'd pick something else, like Windows. Many of us here do have other overriding reasons, so we're here anyway, but it has to be faced: If you're the kind of person who really, really wants to have all the big name games, Linux is not your ideal platform.
But most computer users aren't hard core gamers. Most fall into one of the other categories. Now just a few years ago, Linux was pretty much only a satisfying platform for people who basically didn't game at all, who didn't even think they might want to game at all. This is a fairly restricted group, although already bigger than 2%. But now? Now, Linux is a satisfying platform for everyone up to and including moderate (or even, heavy but iconoclastic) gamers. This is a much less restricted group, certainly the majority of computer users.
Now, Linux overall as a desktop isn't going to be satisfactory for person X unless all their needs are met on Linux as well as on other platforms--or at least, unless any restrictions are minor and at least balanced by corresponding bonuses. Right now I would say Linux as a desktop in itself, or rather as a collection of desktop options, is on balance fundamentally better than any other desktop platform. It is as or more user friendly, more powerful, gives the user more control, less adware and spyware and viruses and on and on. There are still some restrictions in various areas, but it's mostly in applications and where once it was "You practically can't do this in Linux" now it's "If you are the niche equivalent of a 'hard core gamer' Linux may not be the best". Again, the number of people involved has shrunk way down. Any given person may have a few different kinds of needs; Linux is only going to be the best for someone if Linux applications meet their demands in all their areas of interest, so if there's 1% need better CAD than Linux has and 2% that want better video editing than Linux (or Windows) have and so on, it could add up to a fair number of people with one blocker or another. But the blockers are now pretty small; overall, the number of people for whom Linux is/would be as good as or better than other desktop operating systems is now quite large--certainly far more than 2%.
So it may not always have been true, but at this point the main restriction on Linux uptake is a matter of marketing, habit, existing corporate relationships and so forth. If you could wave a magic wand and suddenly all the boxen being sold had a user friendly Linux installed instead of Windows 10, hard core gamers would have problems and so would a few other people, but for many it would be an improvement. This was not always the case, and on gaming it has changed hugely in a very short time.
We need market share. Linux should and will continue to improve, but at this point there is no intrinsic reason why many more people couldn't use it than actually do.
(Edited to add: Note that for some niches, Linux is actually equal or superior even for "hard core gamer" equivalents)
Last edited by Purple Library Guy on 2 August 2017 at 10:25 pm UTC
For "hard core gamers", by most definitions, Linux is not a good platform right now. Workable, but unless you had some other overriding reason you'd pick something else, like Windows. Many of us here do have other overriding reasons, so we're here anyway, but it has to be faced: If you're the kind of person who really, really wants to have all the big name games, Linux is not your ideal platform.
But most computer users aren't hard core gamers. Most fall into one of the other categories. Now just a few years ago, Linux was pretty much only a satisfying platform for people who basically didn't game at all, who didn't even think they might want to game at all. This is a fairly restricted group, although already bigger than 2%. But now? Now, Linux is a satisfying platform for everyone up to and including moderate (or even, heavy but iconoclastic) gamers. This is a much less restricted group, certainly the majority of computer users.
Now, Linux overall as a desktop isn't going to be satisfactory for person X unless all their needs are met on Linux as well as on other platforms--or at least, unless any restrictions are minor and at least balanced by corresponding bonuses. Right now I would say Linux as a desktop in itself, or rather as a collection of desktop options, is on balance fundamentally better than any other desktop platform. It is as or more user friendly, more powerful, gives the user more control, less adware and spyware and viruses and on and on. There are still some restrictions in various areas, but it's mostly in applications and where once it was "You practically can't do this in Linux" now it's "If you are the niche equivalent of a 'hard core gamer' Linux may not be the best". Again, the number of people involved has shrunk way down. Any given person may have a few different kinds of needs; Linux is only going to be the best for someone if Linux applications meet their demands in all their areas of interest, so if there's 1% need better CAD than Linux has and 2% that want better video editing than Linux (or Windows) have and so on, it could add up to a fair number of people with one blocker or another. But the blockers are now pretty small; overall, the number of people for whom Linux is/would be as good as or better than other desktop operating systems is now quite large--certainly far more than 2%.
So it may not always have been true, but at this point the main restriction on Linux uptake is a matter of marketing, habit, existing corporate relationships and so forth. If you could wave a magic wand and suddenly all the boxen being sold had a user friendly Linux installed instead of Windows 10, hard core gamers would have problems and so would a few other people, but for many it would be an improvement. This was not always the case, and on gaming it has changed hugely in a very short time.
We need market share. Linux should and will continue to improve, but at this point there is no intrinsic reason why many more people couldn't use it than actually do.
(Edited to add: Note that for some niches, Linux is actually equal or superior even for "hard core gamer" equivalents)
Last edited by Purple Library Guy on 2 August 2017 at 10:25 pm UTC
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If that is true, allow me to ask you a question: Who is developing the official NVidia Web Driver for macOS to support their latest GPUs like the GTX 1080 if Apple prevents them to do so?
Apple does allow only those API it supports. Ergo no OpenGL support beyond 4.1
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Comandante Ñoñardo Aug 3, 2017
Feral is porting Bioshock Remastered to MacOS, but not to Linux, which is a very bad sign ...
I wonder if they will port the game from the original console code or from the broken Windows port code.
I wonder if they will port the game from the original console code or from the broken Windows port code.
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ElectricPrism Aug 3, 2017
Another metric I would be interested in is calculating sales numbers vs total linux steam gamers, to know what percent of the market bought.
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Why has this thread turned into 'Apple is an evil corporation' diatribe? I thought it was about Linux gaming and I can't recall seeing anyone putting a gun to people's heads, forcing them to buy an Apple product (or Microsoft's for that matter). At least not where I live.
Last edited by manus76 on 3 August 2017 at 5:57 am UTC
Last edited by manus76 on 3 August 2017 at 5:57 am UTC
2 Likes, Who?
I can't recall seeing anyone putting a gun to people's heads, forcing them to buy an Apple product (or Microsoft's for that matter).
This doesn't reduce the damage lock-in proponents are causing to Linux.
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Why has this thread turned into 'Apple is an evil corporation' diatribe? I thought it was about Linux gaming and I can't recall seeing anyone putting a gun to people's heads, forcing them to buy an Apple product (or Microsoft's for that matter). At least not where I live.Lots of bad things happen in this world without anyone putting a gun to anyone's head. People's children starve in the streets without anyone having put a gun to anyone's head. Nestle executives conspired to have third world babies die of disease without putting guns to anyone's head. The idea that if something happens subtly it didn't really happen is pernicious and helps a lot of people get away with a lot of really bad stuff.
1 Likes, Who?
Yes, the world is sometimes an unpleasant place to live. There are bad and wrong things happening and there are multibillion dollar corporations operating on the capitalist market driven solely by (surprise) profit.
The thread is about linux gaming and not about Apple, even if there was a direct link between Apple's practices and the state of linux gaming at the moment, I haven't seen anyone demonstrating such a link.
The thread is about linux gaming and not about Apple, even if there was a direct link between Apple's practices and the state of linux gaming at the moment, I haven't seen anyone demonstrating such a link.
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even if there was a direct link between Apple's practices and the state of linux gaming at the moment, I haven't seen anyone demonstrating such a link.
1. Lock-in taxes cross platform development making it more expensive.
2. In practice it means some simply won't do it, and will limit their releases to bigger platforms (not Linux).
MS, Apple, Sony and the like do a lot to perpetuate lock-in and tax developers who don't want to limit releases to their platforms. Example of that is them not supporting Vulkan on their locked systems.
Last edited by Shmerl on 3 August 2017 at 6:48 am UTC
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Does it all impact linux gaming in any way? In other words: do you think there would be a lot people suddenly installing a linux distro on their computers if Apple changed its practices?
The biggest thing that happened in linux gaming is Steam, and even now, couple of years later with a relatively mature client and several thousands of games we don't see billions of people abandoning MacOS let alone Windows and moving to linux. What makes people think that a couple of games more on 'our platform' would suddenly change that?
The biggest thing that happened in linux gaming is Steam, and even now, couple of years later with a relatively mature client and several thousands of games we don't see billions of people abandoning MacOS let alone Windows and moving to linux. What makes people think that a couple of games more on 'our platform' would suddenly change that?
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Does it all impact linux gaming in any way? In other words: do you think there would be a lot people suddenly installing a linux distro on their computers if Apple changed its practices?I don't think anyone really seriously suggested that would happen. For my part, all I was saying is that Apple is now a competitor to Linux, and so we don't benefit from their existence in the way we might have before, back when "well, you've done Mac, it's a tiny step to Linux" was a valid argument.
The biggest thing that happened in linux gaming is Steam, and even now, couple of years later with a relatively mature client and several thousands of games we don't see billions of people abandoning MacOS let alone Windows and moving to linux.
What makes people think that a couple of games more on 'our platform' would suddenly change that?Less barrier to migration basically. If Windows gamers lost literally zero games by migrating to Linux, there would undoubtedly be a bigger slice of people willing to try it. It might not be a landslide, but I think we'd see much healthier growth.
As it is, there are too many reasons (okay, mainly one reason: 'muh games!') to stay on Windows.
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Kuduzkehpan Aug 3, 2017
As a part of my previous comment.
We dont need massive numbers of games infact we need massive player based games If we want to break the chain. I couldnt say use linux because ... Very old days when the one isnt intellectual or any form of it guy. But now i could say use linux lets play cs go, borderlands dota 2 may be star citizen, eve online diablo and other blizz games. With Vulkan like cross platform apis and good support alongside with them i see bright future for gaming on linux. And special thanks to Albion Online.
We dont need massive numbers of games infact we need massive player based games If we want to break the chain. I couldnt say use linux because ... Very old days when the one isnt intellectual or any form of it guy. But now i could say use linux lets play cs go, borderlands dota 2 may be star citizen, eve online diablo and other blizz games. With Vulkan like cross platform apis and good support alongside with them i see bright future for gaming on linux. And special thanks to Albion Online.
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