Classic Roguelike 'ADOM' is getting a revamp named Ultimate ADOM

Interesting! I bought the game at a sale but I didn't play for very long, for one thing I had other titles that beckoned and then there was the fact that there seemed to be a ton of keyboard-shortcuts to learn and I really missed full mouse-support.

Hopefully, this remake will be a bit more "user-friendly".

Looking forward to what they do with the revamp.
This thing is , if nothing , a project of passion.

Hopefully, this remake will be a bit more "user-friendly".

It's not a remake - it's a whole new game. It looks like there's not going to be much at all common with the original.

A lot has changed and keeps changing regarding the noob-friendliness of Classic ADOM. (I think you can now play it purely with a mouse). However, ADOM is a hardcore roguelike and learning a few shortcuts is the easiest part. If you want to get anywhere in the game, you have to invest a lot of time into it. (Unless you play with permadeath off).

Ultimate ADOM is going to released on AndroidTV, PSP and Nintendo Switch too, so it's definitely not going to be so keyboard-centric like the original.

The thing about ADOM that always rubbed me the wrong way was the extreme and unfair randomness.
Having a good run? Getting nice equipment and leveling up well? Walk into a trap you couldn't have seen and die.
Found some nice gear in a dungeon? A few awesome spells? Just starve to death because no food spawned by sheer randomness.
Doing great, entering the fourth dungeon already, ready to explore? An enemy spawns that is just vastly overpowered for the region you spawn in. It just one-shots you.

It's a game where not only making mistakes can kill you, but just random things out of your control.

And that's not because it is a roguelike, but because it is IMO a bad one.
Others show how to do it much better: ToME4, Caves of Qud, Cogmind... hell, even Stone Soup (though that one's a bit simplistic).


Last edited by TheSHEEEP on 16 November 2017 at 6:36 am UTC

It's a game where not only making mistakes can kill you, but just random things out of your control.

Ultimately this is the reason what makes ADOM so compelling to it's fans; It's a dying simulator. It's really unfair, just like real life. But even the most unfairest of deaths is something that people cherish just as much as winning runs of the game.

However, once you get good enough in the game, most of those random moments are counterable anyway.

The thing about ADOM that always rubbed me the wrong way was the extreme and unfair randomness.

While recently I played and got pissed at the game for seemingily this. Up to the point of uninstalling it for time being (I also used to play long long time ago the original terminal version, never ever won, or probably went even went half way through game) I still disagree with that. It is not that bad, you have quite some controll, but the thing is it is kinda "grindy" as in to address all that stuff you kinda need to move slow, at least at certain points. (also food issiue you mention is nonsense/insexperience, jsut take class/race with food preservation and you should never run out of food, you can also buy food, and after certain point it becomes almost 100% non issue). In any case seems as time passed I become way less into grinding (otoh I play borderlands 2 and farm for stupid stuff...). But for roguelikes, bor me brogue is like THE best experience ever seen, even probably comparing to realtime big name things like diablo, as brogue has essentially no/nano ammounts of grind as mostly seems fairly fair.

But even the most unfairest of deaths is something that people cherish

What is wrong with people? ;)

(also food issiue you mention is nonsense/insexperience, jsut take class/race with food preservation and you should never run out of food, you can also buy food, and after certain point it becomes almost 100% non issue).

I'm sorry but that statement is nonsense.
As any true roguelike player, I pick everything at random and then go with the cards dealt to me. And usually, you do not get good food preservation combinations.
Buying food is also not possible since you are utterly broke throughout the entire early game. Just as an example, going to town after the introduction dungeon, you can afford what? 3 bread? Good luck with that.
Later, sure, but reaching late or even mid game is probably the hardest task of ADOM. Once you come that far, only few things are threatening still.

Of course, you can grind the first dungeons, but grind is the opposite of fun or getting better at a game. It is a literal waste of time. You waste time doing something that is not challenging (as you can only safely grind easy areas) therefore not improving your skill as a player, yields barely any rewards and actively prevents you from doing something you actually want to do (progress in the game).
I just don't understand why people like to waste their time, I guess. Which comes back to my question from above...

A bit unrelated, but:
Eating/drinking mechanics are usually not implemented well in games, ADOM is just one of many examples here.
The funniest must have been Ark where (at default settings) you must more or less eat constantly in order not to die. It's pretty hilarious, really.
But ADOM actually gets pretty close to that. With some characters you feel like you need to eat a whole animal every level of a dungeon, so like... after an hour of work or so. Absurd, really.
Unreal World does that pretty well, on the other hand.


Last edited by TheSHEEEP on 16 November 2017 at 12:25 pm UTC

(also food issiue you mention is nonsense/insexperience, jsut take class/race with food preservation and you should never run out of food, you can also buy food, and after certain point it becomes almost 100% non issue).

I'm sorry but that statement is nonsense.
As any true roguelike player, I pick everything at random and then go with the cards dealt to me. And usually, you do not get good food preservation combinations.
Buying food is also not possible since you are utterly broke throughout the entire early game. Just as an example, going to town after the introduction dungeon, you can afford what? 3 bread? Good luck with that.

3 rations give quite some time, also you can come back when you find some gold. You have talents, class, race. There options to work with, maybe preferred class/race combo not the greatest with food management, but to me it is not that big of a deal.

Later, sure, but reaching late or even mid game is probably the hardest task of ADOM. Once you come that far, only few things are threatening still.

Yes early game is by far most difficult/least addressible. Later there are dangers, but by that time you could have "ground" some stuff to help. Soma race/class combos are obviously crazy hard early, but again there are options.

Of course, you can grind the first dungeons, but grind is the opposite of fun or getting better at a game. It is a literal waste of time. You waste time doing something that is not challenging (as you can only safely grind easy areas) therefore not improving your skill as a player, yields barely any rewards and actively prevents you from doing something you actually want to do (progress in the game).
I just don't understand why people like to waste their time, I guess. Which comes back to my question from above...

I agree, that why I uninstalled it :) Like in brogue you generaly move quickly (at least in game time, you might take your time to think your moves), not so in ADOM. Again this probably is from that rather annoying randomnes, so seems I grew out of it at least some.

A bit unrelated, but:
Eating/drinking mechanics are usually not implemented well in games, ADOM is just one of many examples here.
The funniest must have been Ark where (at default settings) you must more or less eat constantly in order not to die. It's pretty hilarious, really.
But ADOM actually gets pretty close to that. With some characters you feel like you need to eat a whole animal every level of a dungeon, so like... after an hour of work or so. Absurd, really.
Unreal World does that pretty well, on the other hand.

Again ADOM does not seem too bad, maybe you carry too much stuff (being overload increases food consumption). But I agree it's not great, but for other reason, mechanic seems kinda pointless, after reaching certain not too distant point (arena level that would be), hunger is essentially solved, rendering mechanic useles. And I do not like those.
Again shout out to brogue, it uses hunger in correct way (though for new players it might seem too brutal, but it's not once you learn), mainly as anti grind mechanic. As food supply is hard limmited you just can't spend time on doing crap grindy things (and even if you could there is very little things to grind), so in there food is like accelerator and additional pressure. Much more true than in ADOM also, in ADOM you can retreat, go back to shop or whatever, even pray! (if you are starving to death you can pray, and get stiated if not in bad stance with god), in brogue, only food is in unexplored locations, ever, so you better press on, see someone "guarding" it, well you better deal with it! It's all really nice :)

Doing great, entering the fourth dungeon already, ready to explore? An enemy spawns that is just vastly overpowered for the region you spawn in. It just one-shots you.

I had that problem in ToME too. The worst it got was when they dropped a level 20 troll into the intro dungeon, designed for level 1-3 or so. Even if I got away from it, I was prevented from progressing further and would have been unprepared for the next dungeon anyway. But lesser versions of that happened with distressing regularity.

Do you guys play Pixel Dungeon ? I used to play it all the time on Android phone or tablet, but they changed it to include equipment deterioration, and it was a step too far for me. After that change, I was no longer so keen on it. As a rogue-like, I played it hundreds of times, but only got to the end about 8 times.

EDIT:

You can also grab Pixel Dungeon (works on Linux) from itch.io HERE as a .jar file. Then run it via Terminal with "java -jar desktop.jar"

Plus, the itch.io version appears to be the earlier one, before item deterioration was implemented :)


Last edited by g000h on 16 November 2017 at 4:49 pm UTC

Doing great, entering the fourth dungeon already, ready to explore? An enemy spawns that is just vastly overpowered for the region you spawn in. It just one-shots you.

I had that problem in ToME too. The worst it got was when they dropped a level 20 troll into the intro dungeon, designed for level 1-3 or so. Even if I got away from it, I was prevented from progressing further and would have been unprepared for the next dungeon anyway. But lesser versions of that happened with distressing regularity.

That's true, but in ToME you have lives to offset this randomness. Three to start with and you get a new life every 10 levels or so, it is simple but really a brillant little thing that can safe your playthrough from the odd overpowered enemy (and would work with traps if ToME had dangerous traps). And it is not so "strong" that it would make the game easy, you can still make plenty mistakes yourself that will cost you one life too much.

I wish every roguelike had that, especially ADOM ;)


Last edited by TheSHEEEP on 16 November 2017 at 6:15 pm UTC

Do you guys play Pixel Dungeon ? I used to play it all the time on Android phone or tablet, but they changed it to include equipment deterioration, and it was a step too far for me.

I used to play it on my phone, too. It's fine on that, really, but compared to others on desktop platforms, it's very shallow. And the equipment deterioration was just too strong, as if everything was made from cardboard...

Doing great, entering the fourth dungeon already, ready to explore? An enemy spawns that is just vastly overpowered for the region you spawn in. It just one-shots you.

I had that problem in ToME too. The worst it got was when they dropped a level 20 troll into the intro dungeon, designed for level 1-3 or so. Even if I got away from it, I was prevented from progressing further and would have been unprepared for the next dungeon anyway. But lesser versions of that happened with distressing regularity.

That's true, but in ToME you have lives to offset this randomness. Three to start with and you get a new life every 10 levels or so, it is simple but really a brillant little thing that can safe your playthrough from the odd overpowered enemy (and would work with traps if ToME had dangerous traps). And it is not so "strong" that it would make the game easy, you can still make plenty mistakes yourself that will cost you one life too much.

I wish every roguelike had that, especially ADOM ;)

I've got nearly 200 hours in ToME, but have never finished it on Adventure mode (you get lives). Not sure what you guys mean about random OP monsters though, perhaps you're playing an earlier version, or maybe there are mods that are killing your experience that I'm not using - I don't use any mods.

There are random monster encounters in ToME, but they're almost always achievable and should be reasonably clearly marked by their purple outline. There's a temptation when you see one to either plow in, or run like mad, but if you inspect the monster, you'll usually get enough information to make an informed decision. Basically, you shouldn't be playing the game unless you have an exit strategy... or strategies. I usually play characters that can Phase Door and Teleport. I usually also have a speed rune, or equipment with jump, or nimble. Stone wall is helpful too. They can only kill you if they can hit you!

I can attribute pretty much every one of my many, many deaths in ToME to impatience, or failing to notice a named character (those purple dudes I mentioned). Despite that, I'll always be back for more ToME.

Do you guys play Pixel Dungeon ? I used to play it all the time on Android phone or tablet, but they changed it to include equipment deterioration, and it was a step too far for me. After that change, I was no longer so keen on it. As a rogue-like, I played it hundreds of times, but only got to the end about 8 times.

EDIT:

You can also grab Pixel Dungeon (works on Linux) from itch.io HERE as a .jar file. Then run it via Terminal with "java -jar desktop.jar"

Plus, the itch.io version appears to be the earlier one, before item deterioration was implemented :)

I have that on my Phone.
Two versions of Retro Pixel Dungeon.
I don't have to worry about weapon degradation as I die well before any of it happens.
Should give you any idea how "good" I am at roguelikes :P

This is old news by now, but Ultimate ADOM is definitely not just a revamp:

Ultimate ADOM will be a totally different game and a separate purchase. Actually we even plan a series of games with different specializations but linked together by the background story and a community portal.

http://steamcommunity.com/games/333300/announcements/detail/1448333052856275799?tscn=1511741602