SteamOS is still clinging on, somehow. Valve just released a new Beta that is mostly just security updates and Debian 8.9 updates.
Security updates are important of course, but each time I hear of a new SteamOS Beta coming out I'm always hopeful it includes something interesting. One of the only really interesting bits to this update is this line "steamos-base-files - udev rules from Feral to enable steering wheel support", good old Feral! Having good steering wheel support in SteamOS could be quite important in future, if we continue to get more top quality racing games like F1 2017, DiRT Rally and so on.
I do have a feeling that once Valve have managed to polish up VR support for Linux, that they might make a new splash for SteamOS and Steam Machines. I'm probably being too optimistic there, but I have to think that all their work on Mesa has to be for something. Right now though, it does very much seem like SteamOS itself is on life support, waiting for someone to come along and save it.
Thankfully with Valve working on Mesa, VR support and more, they're still doing rather a lot to help Linux gaming.
Thanks for the tip mphuZ!
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Comandante Ñoñardo 10 Nov 2017
Valve don't have magical powers to turn gaming industry and it's dynamics such a short time.
Indeed, Valve has a magical power.... the magical power of MONEY
* Too few "AAA" titles are still being brought to Steam/SteamOS - and Valve is not pushing hard enough to change this.
Yep, clearly there wasn't much effort behind this... In fact, I almost wonder why Valve even bothered at all.
Actually they do something.
Why do You think that some AAA games (like Metro Redux or Dying Light) has a DRMFREE Windows version but the Linux version is steam exclusive? I think Valve is subsidizing Linux ports with the condition that those ports must be Steam exclusives.
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Guys, to be honest this is it. We already had the best out of the "linux gaming" movement, now it's loosing momentum. There will be some more games but it will not get any better than it is right now. It might get worse though. We will not exit the artificial life support phase unless something happens on the Microsoft - Valve front.I think you're being incredibly pessimistic. Nothing about Linux gaming is losing momentum. SteamOS is not the start and end of Linux gaming. I've found the experience of Linux gaming to get better year on year.
If nothing else, most sources seem to be showing increasing Linux use lately. Percentages are creeping up.
There is the admittedly important exception of the Steam survey, which may be screwy or may be getting warped by issues around lots of new Steam members being from the least Linux-y parts of the globe. But generally it seems pretty likely that Linux is seeing a bit more desktop uptake lately, after a long period of relative stagnation. I don't know why and I don't know if it will continue, but it's a dashed good sign. Increased market share will make us less dependent on Valve, at the same time as it gives Valve more incentive to back us.
And it's a good time for it. I think right now, if someone tries Linux out, kicks the tires a bit, there's less reasons than ever before for anyone to want to go back. We got lots of different Linux desktops, but they're almost all good; we got plenty of good games, far more than ever before; we got lots of good, pretty mature open source software; we have good hardware support, even getting pretty decent with the graphics cards; and we still don't do all the control freak crap certain other OSes owned by corporations do. And all the fundamentals of Linux seem to be just continuing to get better. I saw an article about something like "Top 10 Linux annoyances" or something a little while ago, and I read it, and after going through the list all I could think was, "Are those really the worst problems we have left? This is piddling compared to the old days!"
Any growth we get should be sustainable, is what I'm saying, because I can't see there being that much adopter's remorse.
Last edited by Purple Library Guy on 10 Nov 2017 at 4:19 am UTC
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Valve don't have magical powers to turn gaming industry and it's dynamics such a short time.
I disagree. Remember the momentum around launch: A multitude of hardware manufacturers supporting a Steam Machine, a huge lineup of promised games (witcher 3,Batman, Evolution (or what it was called again) etc. A lot!).
Now HAD Valve put enough behind it, I think we might have had one more gaming platform both amongst console and PC gamers under the Xmas trees this year.
Last edited by Beamboom on 10 Nov 2017 at 7:35 am UTC
1 Likes, Who?
Valve don't have magical powers to turn gaming industry and it's dynamics such a short time.
Indeed, Valve has a magical power.... the magical power of MONEY
* Too few "AAA" titles are still being brought to Steam/SteamOS - and Valve is not pushing hard enough to change this.
Yep, clearly there wasn't much effort behind this... In fact, I almost wonder why Valve even bothered at all.
Actually they do something.
Why do You think that some AAA games (like Metro Redux or Dying Light) has a DRMFREE Windows version but the Linux version is steam exclusive? I think Valve is subsidizing Linux ports with the condition that those ports must be Steam exclusives.
@Beamboom
Nope , money and fame doesn't mean anything.
Look at the Windows Phone. We are talking about Microsoft.
Last edited by Leopard on 10 Nov 2017 at 8:11 am UTC
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Nope , money and fame doesn't mean anything.It does mean something, but it is only half of the story. The other half are big titles and users. Both will only grow gradually slowly side by side (kind of chicken and egg issue :)).
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Pompesdesky 10 Nov 2017
I'm placing some hope in the Atari Console and also in the new Intel CPU with AMD graphics, that could be a package for compact and standarized Steam Machines....
2 Likes, Who?
To be entirely fair; I see no real use for SteamOS rather than having it on a Raspberry Pi 3 and hooked up to a living room TV. There's hardly a backend to speak of which can be used for all the other things people expect of their OSes. It's first-and-foremost a console OS rather than a desktop OS.
There have been no less than three updates to the Steam Client Beta this week alone, and I feel like Valve is focusing on the proposed new features they want to put in the Steam Client prior to maybe boosting SteamOS again, but again only for console-use.
It's often easier to just dump a random Debian-based distro on a desktop/laptop and then install the Steam Client so people can then also have access to Office suites and the like when they're not gaming. This is just something Valve cannot put all their resources to. There are already vast numbers of people making those particular distros.
It would only cost Valve money with hardly any gain to develop a fully-featured desktop OS versus the slimline console OS which is SteamOS. And that keeps SteamOS in that console-niche where a functioning controller is more important than having frequent (non-security) updates to the backend.
At least, that's how I see it as someone with a Debian-based distro running the Steam Client Beta and only booting up SteamOS once in a blue moon.
There have been no less than three updates to the Steam Client Beta this week alone, and I feel like Valve is focusing on the proposed new features they want to put in the Steam Client prior to maybe boosting SteamOS again, but again only for console-use.
It's often easier to just dump a random Debian-based distro on a desktop/laptop and then install the Steam Client so people can then also have access to Office suites and the like when they're not gaming. This is just something Valve cannot put all their resources to. There are already vast numbers of people making those particular distros.
It would only cost Valve money with hardly any gain to develop a fully-featured desktop OS versus the slimline console OS which is SteamOS. And that keeps SteamOS in that console-niche where a functioning controller is more important than having frequent (non-security) updates to the backend.
At least, that's how I see it as someone with a Debian-based distro running the Steam Client Beta and only booting up SteamOS once in a blue moon.
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(...) We need Bethesda like companies and their games to grow. (...)Very good point. I would take that further. There are few companies, that are competitive with Valve:
- Sony
- Microsoft
- EA
- Ubisoft
It seems, that Microsoft and EA are working together (EA Access on Xbox for example) and EA and Ubisoft have no problem with releasing their games on Sony and Microsoft platforms. However, I would say, that having Sony and Microsoft on board is impossible (they have their own platform and do not publish anything on other platforms), having EA and Ubisoft is very very unlikely because they have their own clients and stores and they have no interest in making Valve stronger.
But there are companies, that make big titles and may be significant to bring bigger attention to Linux:
- Bethesda
- Rockstar Games
- CD Projekt Red
- Activision
- Blizzard
- Konami
- Square Enix (Partially with us already, but we need Raise of the Tomb Raider, Final Fantasy series etc)
Just imagine how good would it look like if Steam Machines would be reborn with bundles with:
1) Steam Machine + Diablo 3 + GTA V + Fallout 4
2) Steam Machine + Final Fantasy XV + Starcraft 2 bundle + PES 2018
3) Steam Machine + Max Payne 3 + Raise of the Tomb Raider + Metal Gear Solid V
4) Steam Machine + Doom + Call of Duty WW2 + Witcher 3
You must admit that such a bundles are something that you would throw money at. At least I know I would.
Valve Steam Machines project is so far a disaster, and I wish you all that there will be new version of it with much much more money invested in the project.
So... Good luck for Windows 10S - Metro only system where Steam cannot be installed. It could be "wake up" signal for Valve...That's exactly what I wish for - but I guess Microsoft is not that stupid - they learned their lesson and Windows 10S will be only for schools, public services and for poor regions of world. Rest will have normal version of their system, and this will make both Microsoft and Valve happy with situation as it is, and there won't be new push for Steam machines...
1 Likes, Who?
johndoe86x 10 Nov 2017
Linux needs three things to succeed as a competitive gaming platform.
Thankfully, Valve has employed full time mesa developers that are making great progress. If you ask me that's currently money better spent than SteamOS.
This will make a lot of people here mad, but the experience just isn't on par yet. Steam has made great strides, but there are still things that the end user has to do for an optimal experience. Setting the CPU governor is a great example. Choosing between a myriad of open and closed source drivers is another. Thankfully, the Solus devs are arguably doing just as much as Valve (if not more than) with their snaps to aid in simplicity.
Say what you want about AAA games and their greedy micro-transactions and their godforsaken PC ports. Say you already have more games in your library than you can play if you want. Say you would never support EA, Ubisoft, and Activision's shady business practices. That's fine, but until we have Bethesda, Blizzard, Activision, EA, and Ubisoft then Linux won't be mainstream.
Thankfully, the third will come in time with the great progress being made on the first two points. I know that's not what most of you in here want to hear, but that's the realistic truth.
- Until Linux has better performance than Windows across the board, Linux won't be mainstream for PC gaming.
Thankfully, Valve has employed full time mesa developers that are making great progress. If you ask me that's currently money better spent than SteamOS.
- Until Linux has the same simplicity of installation/use as Windows, Linux won't be mainstream for PC gaming.
This will make a lot of people here mad, but the experience just isn't on par yet. Steam has made great strides, but there are still things that the end user has to do for an optimal experience. Setting the CPU governor is a great example. Choosing between a myriad of open and closed source drivers is another. Thankfully, the Solus devs are arguably doing just as much as Valve (if not more than) with their snaps to aid in simplicity.
- Until Linux has the AAA industry on board, Linux won't be mainstream for PC gaming.
Say what you want about AAA games and their greedy micro-transactions and their godforsaken PC ports. Say you already have more games in your library than you can play if you want. Say you would never support EA, Ubisoft, and Activision's shady business practices. That's fine, but until we have Bethesda, Blizzard, Activision, EA, and Ubisoft then Linux won't be mainstream.
Thankfully, the third will come in time with the great progress being made on the first two points. I know that's not what most of you in here want to hear, but that's the realistic truth.
2 Likes, Who?
I've been testing SteamOS since I built my jig two years ago. It was awful at first, very instable, crashy and even brickable. The public launch of these Steam Machines was a mistake, because it was simply way too early. Now I'm happy to admit that the OS is very stable and useful. These bugs that broke the OS have been solved and the OS can easily recover from a crashed client or OS, which is good. There still are bugs but the only bugs that I am experiencing are in the Steam client, not the OS. The OS has been performing very well since the last updates, so although I can agree that this changelog does not seem very exciting, I do think that the OS already performs very well for its purpose, so the only thing that needs maintaining is hardware support/kernel/security patches and that won't be exciting for a long time. And that's fine. I'd rather like to see Valve fix those silly stupid client bugs first.
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Kimyrielle 10 Nov 2017
Linux needs three things to succeed as a competitive gaming platform.
It needs -something- over Windows, not necessarily any of the features you mentioned. But something. A unique selling point. And unfortunately, "freedom" won't cut it. People at large don't mind the NSA reading their email and them getting filmed by 1,000 different CCTV cameras a day. They don't care about Windows 10 being unfree and spyware, either. Sad, but true.
A better performance than Windows across the board would definitely help getting us some attention. But as long as most games are designed to run on Windows and ported to Linux as an afterthought, this will be not too easy to achieve.
Btw. Installing Windows is just as painful or easy as Linux. The point is that it doesn't matter, as nobody has to install Windows. It comes pre-installed on close to 100% of all PCs sold on Earth, after all. This is the exact reason why we need to achieve a -better-, not equal experience for gaming on Linux. Why else would a Windows user switch from something that they already have and works for them?
It's really the same with SteamOS vs Ubuntu. SteamOS doesn't offer anything tangible over Ubuntu (or any other major distro) at this point, so why would anyone switch? It's not a better gaming platform than Ubuntu by any stretch of imagination.
I don't think we necessarily need EA or Ubisoft on board, though. My personal indifference about them and their games aside, but for console users it is totally normal NOT to have access to games that are exclusives for other consoles. They accept that. We don't need to have 100% of all publishers on Linux, either. We DO need a reasonable amount of AAA games though, and we still have painfully little (although there has been some slow progress in the past two years).
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Mohandevir 10 Nov 2017
I would like to have a report form Feral about the number of games they ported in 2016 and in 2017.
My feeling is (I may be wrong) that 2017 was a lot less productive than 2016, on the AAA front. Is it because of lower opportunity for Linux ports or is it because they had to put a lot of manpower to develop their Vulkan conversion layer?
No matter the reason, it gives us, Linux gamers, the feeling that Linux gaming is loosing momentum. If it's because of Vulkan development, there may be hope for 2018-2019.
I might just be too optimist...
"Time flies when you’re having fun. Excluding expansions, F1 2017 is our 20th Linux game in less than four years!
Penguins, thank you for all your support. There are still plenty more treats to come…"
-Feral post on Facebook
Last edited by Mohandevir on 10 Nov 2017 at 5:35 pm UTC
My feeling is (I may be wrong) that 2017 was a lot less productive than 2016, on the AAA front. Is it because of lower opportunity for Linux ports or is it because they had to put a lot of manpower to develop their Vulkan conversion layer?
No matter the reason, it gives us, Linux gamers, the feeling that Linux gaming is loosing momentum. If it's because of Vulkan development, there may be hope for 2018-2019.
I might just be too optimist...
"Time flies when you’re having fun. Excluding expansions, F1 2017 is our 20th Linux game in less than four years!
Penguins, thank you for all your support. There are still plenty more treats to come…"
-Feral post on Facebook
Last edited by Mohandevir on 10 Nov 2017 at 5:35 pm UTC
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I would like to have a report form Feral about the number of games they ported in 2016 and in 2017.Yeah, would love to know that too, plus some info about which titles where (financially) successful for Feral or not.
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I don't know. I feel like trying to compete with console world isn't a good idea. Letting them use the software for free or for being mention on Valve's website is one thing but trying to directly compete by releasing a "better console"...? Not really. I'm still with: focus on standards, APIs, compatibility, Vulcan, and don't bother trying to sell the overpriced hardware - let others take care of that.
Last edited by cprn on 10 Nov 2017 at 7:17 pm UTC
Last edited by cprn on 10 Nov 2017 at 7:17 pm UTC
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I would like to have a report form Feral about the number of games they ported in 2016 and in 2017.Yeah, would love to know that too, plus some info about which titles where (financially) successful for Feral or not.
Ask and you shall get stuff...this took me a while to compile...
About Feral...
2016
Total War WARHAMMER
Total War: WARHAMMER - Realm of the Wood Elves DLC
Deus Ex: Mankind Divided
Mad Max
Warhammer 40,000®: Dawn of War II®, Chaos Rising and Retribution
Life Is Strange
XCOM 2 - Shen’s Last Gift DLC
XCOM 2 - Alien Hunters DLC
XCOM 2 - Anarchy’s Children DLC
F1 2015
Tomb Raider
Company of Heroes 2: The British Forces DLC & Ardennes Assault DLC
Company of Heroes 2 - the Mac vs Linux multiplayer update
Medieval II: Total War Collection
2017
HITMAN GOTY Update
HITMAN
F1 2017
XCOM 2: War of the Chosen DLC
Dawn of War III
Total War: SHOGUN 2 and Fall of the Samurai
DiRT Rally
Total War WARHAMMER - Norsca DLC
Deus Ex: Mankind Divided - A Criminal Past DLC
Mad Max - Vulkan
+ One still on their radar for Linux
I think that's about right.
So yeah, they had more overall last year, even when removing DLC. However, for this year I imagine moving their pipeline to Vulkan took quite a bit of time, but we have to remember that is laying the groundwork for future ports as well. It went from a Mad Max beta, to Dawn of War III (both OpenGL & Vulkan) to F1 2017 (just Vulkan) and maybe their current teaser will be Vulkan only too.
On top of that, I have no doubts that Feral have Linux ports lined up for 2018. I don't have any confirmation from them (speculating here), but considering how things are going something incredibly drastic would have to happen for 2018 not to be another good year for Feral's Linux port.
Last edited by Liam Dawe on 10 Nov 2017 at 7:29 pm UTC
3 Likes, Who?
Mohandevir 10 Nov 2017
I would like to have a report form Feral about the number of games they ported in 2016 and in 2017.Yeah, would love to know that too, plus some info about which titles where (financially) successful for Feral or not.
Ask and you shall get stuff...this took me a while to compile...
About Feral...
2016
Total War WARHAMMER
Total War: WARHAMMER - Realm of the Wood Elves DLC
Deus Ex: Mankind Divided
Mad Max
Warhammer 40,000®: Dawn of War II®, Chaos Rising and Retribution
Life Is Strange
XCOM 2 - Shen’s Last Gift DLC
XCOM 2 - Alien Hunters DLC
XCOM 2 - Anarchy’s Children DLC
F1 2015
Tomb Raider
Company of Heroes 2: The British Forces DLC & Ardennes Assault DLC
Company of Heroes 2 - the Mac vs Linux multiplayer update
Medieval II: Total War Collection
2017
HITMAN GOTY Update
HITMAN
F1 2017
XCOM 2: War of the Chosen DLC
Dawn of War III
Total War: SHOGUN 2 and Fall of the Samurai
DiRT Rally
Total War WARHAMMER - Norsca DLC
Deus Ex: Mankind Divided - A Criminal Past DLC
Mad Max - Vulkan
+ One still on their radar for Linux
I think that's about right.
So yeah, they had more overall last year, even when removing DLC. However, for this year I imagine moving their pipeline to Vulkan took quite a bit of time, but we have to remember that is laying the groundwork for future ports as well. It went from a Mad Max beta, to Dawn of War III (both OpenGL & Vulkan) to F1 2017 (just Vulkan) and maybe their current teaser will be Vulkan only too.
On top of that, I have no doubts that Feral have Linux ports lined up for 2018. I don't have any confirmation from them (speculating here), but considering how things are going something incredibly drastic would have to happen for 2018 not to be another good year for Feral's Linux port.
Thanks Liam,
Awesome as always!
This is what I was meaning. 2017 might just be a transition year where less ports have been done. To us it feels like a slowdown but it might just be a temporary setback. If Feral is in this situation what about other porting houses? I'm not asking you, Liam, to dig for the info, I suppose it's the same for others.
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Well I think it's also that each game will take a different amount of time to port. Anyone remember the delays with Mordor? That's on top of the extra time to get their Vulkan support ready. Even so, the titles Feral have ported this year have been pretty incredible for us.
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Even so, the titles Feral have ported this year have been pretty incredible for us.Yeah, this goes without saying. I'm very grateful that Feral is still on board with Linux, considering how difficult Linux can be as platform and community.
Though I'm curious what their current mission statement is. I guess Mac, their roots, got some momentum this year due to Metal, next to that they are experimenting with iOS and Android. I hope they succeed everywhere. Having them strong as a company is good for us ;)
Last edited by jens on 10 Nov 2017 at 8:01 pm UTC
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johndoe86x 10 Nov 2017
Linux needs three things to succeed as a competitive gaming platform.
It needs -something- over Windows
The main point I was trying to make is that the switch from Windows to Linux can't be a side-grade. It has to be a significant upgrade. I don't think Linux needs a killer "feature" to differentiate it (although installing a console-like OS on any hardware is actually a really cool feature), I just think that it needs to do everything that Windows does... except better.
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