SteamOS is still alive with a new Beta, although it's a rather uninteresting one

Even so, the titles Feral have ported this year have been pretty incredible for us.

Yeah, this goes without saying. I'm very grateful that Feral is still on board with Linux, considering how difficult Linux can be as platform and community.

Yeah. It's probably because the gaming industry neglected Linux for so many years that it turned us into insatiable gaming hungry monsters. At the second the feeding slows down it feels like apocalypse...

More! More! More! :)


Last edited by Mohandevir on 10 Nov 2017 at 8:33 pm UTC

MOAAAAAR!!! :D :P

I expect SteamOS gaming to be very much a "Falcon Punch"

As the toolchain gets really polished development will boom. Mesa, Wine, CLANG, Vulkan, AMD DC, etc...

I just want a zero bullshit linux gaming console.

So... Good luck for Windows 10S - Metro only system where Steam cannot be installed. It could be "wake up" signal for Valve...

That's exactly what I wish for - but I guess Microsoft is not that stupid - they learned their lesson and Windows 10S will be only for schools, public services and for poor regions of world. Rest will have normal version of their system, and this will make both Microsoft and Valve happy with situation as it is, and there won't be new push for Steam machines...

Not entirely true. Microsoft Surface Laptop is Microsoft "answer" to Apple MacBook Air - very expensive laptop for "trendy" people. And Surface Laptop is sold with... Windows 10S by default! Yes, update to Pro version is free - but in couple years ahead - version Pro will be set to "obsolete state" or "Professionals/Developer" edition. The same is with Adobe now - they replaced Adobe Lightroom with iOS/Android shit and "real" Lightroom rebranded as "Lightroom Classic" (so it suggests that it is obsolete).

Microsoft is "clever". They will not "kill" win32 immediately. They will wait. More and more Steam AAA games are already in Metro AppStore: Call of Duty, Middle-earth: Shadow of War, Tomb Raider... Every ~6 months Win10 users have forced to update Windows to newer version (with some silly name) - every time there are some "issues" after update like IE12/Edge again as default browser and not working "third party" applications. Of course problems mostly concern win32 apps installed outside Windows AppStore...

Microsoft is "softly" teaching users that their closed and proprietary AppStore is "the best way" to install software. Also Microsoft is preparing Windows MR headsets [cheaper VR]. Probably they will be working with Metro AppStore plus SteamVR, but not in opposite direction. I mean games designed for Windows MR will be Metro exclusives - the same like it is now with Facebook Oculus exclusives.

I do not know why Valve is so "calm" about it. Maybe they have some financial issues? Definitely they invested too much in VR market that still is unprofitable niche (on PC at least). HTC Vive in fact has been mostly developed by Valve - probably it took a lot of cash... So in summary there are two big failures in Valve hardware division: Steam Machines and VR (but the second maybe in couple years will bring some profits).

I had not been paying attention to developments in Windows land. That does not sound that good for Valve; they may want to sit up and take notice.

I had not been paying attention to developments in Windows land. That does not sound that good for Valve; they may want to sit up and take notice.

Yes, Microsoft continue to slowly boil their captive frogs with the 6 monthly updates. They're playing the long game as described by @danniello after their attempt to strong-arm metro and the store/UWP/Windows Phone failed.

With regard to Linux as a whole growing, the OS tracking stats show that it is continually steadily growing. I think Linux gaming is also still growing and improving, I wouldn't say it has stagnated. Feral had an absolutely stellar year last year that set the bar very high and I think they've done an awesome job supporting our community again this year. Companies like Aspyr and Paradox also continued their strong support for Linux, plenty of other developers too, just a few years ago you could pretty much kind of keep a track in general of what was releasing on Linux, now there's far too much to keep a track of - if you look at the "New Releases" in Steam and sort by date there are tons of new games being released for Linux all the time.

I'm very glad Valve still developing steamos tho I use ubuntu myself lol...
Also with the ongoing Aspyr sale on Steam... damn you Kotick for putting COD only on mac and not linux. I don't like shooters but I would have bought COD on linux. Just for laughs...

I had not been paying attention to developments in Windows land. That does not sound that good for Valve; they may want to sit up and take notice.

Yes, Microsoft continue to slowly boil their captive frogs with the 6 monthly updates. They're playing the long game as described by @danniello after their attempt to strong-arm metro and the store/UWP/Windows Phone failed.

With regard to Linux as a whole growing, the OS tracking stats show that it is continually steadily growing.

Well, I guess . . . but it's like, for the last few months a number of sites have shown significant growth. And back I dunno, like 10 years ago for a while there was significant growth, back when we started from zero and edged up to the 1.5 percent-ish range. But in between, well, yeah, probably Linux was growing, sorta, but it's been like up a tick here, down a tick there, and if you graph it . . . OK, maybe this thing has a tiny slope up but if we kept on "growing" at this rate Linux would be a significant desktop platform around the time everyone's moved to doing their computing by telepathy. Linux was certainly improving through that whole time, but desktop growth was pretty flat. So I'm certainly happy that it seems to be speeding up, plus on top of the actual Linux growth, Chromebooks seem to be carving out a little space. Some say Chromebooks are Linux, some say they ain't, but in terms of platforms being supported by hardware vendors and whatnot they sort of stand or fall together whether they're "actually" the same thing or not. So for some purposes I think it's certainly legit to add Chromebook uptake to Linux growth when you're figuring effective Linux size and impact as a platform. What with one thing and another, I think Linux-(ish) desktop growth is looking a lot more growth-y than it has for quite a while, and I really hope it keeps up. Still don't know why, though--maybe it's just that some key improvement levels have been quietly reached, where little pain points (like "no games" ) that kept people from switching just aren't there any more.

(On Chromebooks and Linux gaming--if I were Google, I would definitely make sure Vulkan ran on Chromebooks so in the end I could make the little buggers run Android games. They're not much of a computer for full scale PC games, but should run phone stuff fine, and in general surely the mid-term plan for Google on Chromebooks has to involve letting users run Android stuff so they can buy anything in the app store. I've seen the Android point made a few times. If they do it, then that's one more platform using Vulkan, and probably a growing platform because Chromebooks are doing OK already and Android integration would make them more useful so they'd probably grow faster.)


Last edited by Purple Library Guy on 12 Nov 2017 at 8:39 pm UTC

I had not been paying attention to developments in Windows land. That does not sound that good for Valve; they may want to sit up and take notice.

Yes, Microsoft continue to slowly boil their captive frogs with the 6 monthly updates. They're playing the long game as described by @danniello after their attempt to strong-arm metro and the store/UWP/Windows Phone failed.

With regard to Linux as a whole growing, the OS tracking stats show that it is continually steadily growing.

Well, I guess . . . but it's like, for the last few months a number of sites have shown significant growth. And back I dunno, like 10 years ago for a while there was significant growth, back when we started from zero and edged up to the 1.5 percent-ish range. But in between, well, yeah, probably Linux was growing, sorta, but it's been like up a tick here, down a tick there, and if you graph it . . . OK, maybe this thing has a tiny slope up but if we kept on "growing" at this rate Linux would be a significant desktop platform around the time everyone's moved to doing their computing by telepathy. Linux was certainly improving through that whole time, but desktop growth was pretty flat. So I'm certainly happy that it seems to be speeding up, plus on top of the actual Linux growth, Chromebooks seem to be carving out a little space. Some say Chromebooks are Linux, some say they ain't, but in terms of platforms being supported by hardware vendors and whatnot they sort of stand or fall together whether they're "actually" the same thing or not. So for some purposes I think it's certainly legit to add Chromebook uptake to Linux growth when you're figuring effective Linux size and impact as a platform. What with one thing and another, I think Linux-(ish) desktop growth is looking a lot more growth-y than it has for quite a while, and I really hope it keeps up. Still don't know why, though--maybe it's just that some key improvement levels have been quietly reached, where little pain points (like "no games") that kept people from switching just aren't there any more.

(On Chromebooks and Linux gaming--if I were Google, I would definitely make sure Vulkan ran on Chromebooks so in the end I could make the little buggers run Android games. They're not much of a computer for full scale PC games, but should run phone stuff fine, and in general surely the mid-term plan for Google on Chromebooks has to involve letting users run Android stuff so they can buy anything in the app store. I've seen the Android point made a few times. If they do it, then that's one more platform using Vulkan, and probably a growing platform because Chromebooks are doing OK already and Android integration would make them more useful so they'd probably grow faster.)

That's very true, the growth is very slow compared with the overall desktop marketshare. I can't see how it could significantly change without some serious marketing or another major cock-up from Microsoft (like Vista and Windows 8) or some other big catalyst. Despite how malware-prone Windows is, people still use it en-mass. I think that most people will just use the OS the PC is shipped with, so its a difficult market to break into.

Chromebooks do seem to be quite popular, I'm not sure if the OS supports Vulkan but many of the chipsets in the Chromebooks definitely do, and there are drivers already available, plus Android supports Vulkan so theoretically I imagine it should be straightforward for Google to support Vulkan on ChromeOS if they don't already. I do think that's one of the things that would help gaming on Linux, if the development costs reduce to make it very simple and low cost to support Linux platforms, the larger developers and publishers will have to seriously consider it as another revenue stream at some point. Like you say, I just wonder if/when that tipping point will come.

I just thought about something I don't think anyone thought before. Valve had all the creative freedom over the look and feel of the Steam Machine cases. Why the hell not a single one of them looks like it was steam powered? Literally. No steampunk theme?? No valves and glowing crystals sticking out?? No deluxe version with a mist producing atomizer, cogs and pistons?? WHY...?


Last edited by cprn on 23 Nov 2017 at 7:06 pm UTC

I just thought about something I don't think anyone thought before. Valve had all the creative freedom over the look and feel of the Steam Machine cases. Why the hell not a single one of them looks like it was steam powered? Literally. No steampunk theme?? No valves and glowing crystals sticking out?? No deluxe version with a mist producing atomizer, cogs and pistons?? WHY...?

It would certainly be a selling point, though it really depends on the content if people would buy a steam machine or not. Valve needs the big publishers to support steam os/linux, the big publisher would need a bigger market to do so, the bigger market will start to happen once there are more big titles. Chicken and egg issue ;). Only time and slow grow side by side on all sides will help imho.


Last edited by jens on 24 Nov 2017 at 7:53 am UTC

I just thought about something I don't think anyone thought before. Valve had all the creative freedom over the look and feel of the Steam Machine cases. Why the hell not a single one of them looks like it was steam powered? Literally. No steampunk theme?? No valves and glowing crystals sticking out?? No deluxe version with a mist producing atomizer, cogs and pistons?? WHY...?

It would certainly be a selling point, though it really depends on the content if people would buy a steam machine or not. Valve needs the big publishers to support steam os/linux, the big publisher would need a bigger market to do so, the bigger market will start to happen once there are more big titles. Chicken and egg issue ;). Only time and slow grow side by side on all sides will help imho.

Well, that or a huge marketing push by a very big corporation with enough muscle to line up the big publishers and content providers behind what they can convince same is a not-to-be-missed opportunity for big profit. Valve doesn't seem to want to do that, but even if they did there are questions whether they are in fact big enough and whether their organizational style is capable of that kind of fast push requiring forceful action on a group of fronts at once.

Well, that or a huge marketing push by a very big corporation with enough muscle to line up the big publishers and content providers behind what they can convince same is a not-to-be-missed opportunity for big profit. Valve doesn't seem to want to do that, but even if they did there are questions whether they are in fact big enough and whether their organizational style is capable of that kind of fast push requiring forceful action on a group of fronts at once.

Well, yes. But that would involve some serious money ;). I don't know, something like GTA5 exclusively with superior performance for Linux three years in row for a start. I'm doubting too that Valve could pull such a trick. But even if they are capable, why should they take such a risky and expensive step? They spend enough and keep spending to establish Linux as a stable third platform next to Windows to not be completely bound to Microsoft and have something for political pressure at hand. I guess that is mostly what Valve wants to achieve in the short term.


Last edited by jens on 25 Nov 2017 at 9:55 am UTC

Well, yes. But that would involve some serious money ;). I don't know, something like GTA5 exclusively with superior performance for Linux three years in row for a start. I'm doubting too that Valve could pull such a trick. But even if they are capable, why should they take such a risky and expensive step? They spend enough and keep spending to establish Linux as a stable third platform next to Windows to not be completely bound to Microsoft and have something for political pressure at hand. I guess that is mostly what Valve wants to achieve in the short term.[/quote]
There are so many problems in getting developers bring a game to linux part of the problem is perception of how hard it is to port games to. The second problem is us the community collectively we are the least welcoming group on the internet and that is saying something. New users to linux are attacked instead of helped and lastly the community members that buy windows games in the hopes of playing the game in wine.
They are a pretty bad road block to a native port, why would a studio pay for a port or buy in the skills they need if your just going to use wine to play the game knowing you cant get a refund because you are playing on platform they do not support.
If Valve got serious about the threat from Windows, if they ever to decide to actually make games again instead of scrooge mcducking in their money bins. if they made left 4 dead 3 or portal 3 (did not bother with hl3 because its never coming out) exclusive to Linux or exclusive to Linux for 12 months just as an experiment to see if it resulted in the linux community growing.

Well, that or a huge marketing push by a very big corporation with enough muscle to line up the big publishers and content providers behind what they can convince same is a not-to-be-missed opportunity for big profit. Valve doesn't seem to want to do that, but even if they did there are questions whether they are in fact big enough and whether their organizational style is capable of that kind of fast push requiring forceful action on a group of fronts at once.

Well, yes. But that would involve some serious money ;). I don't know, something like GTA5 exclusively with superior performance for Linux three years in row for a start. I'm doubting too that Valve could pull such a trick. But even if they are capable, why should they take such a risky and expensive step? They spend enough and keep spending to establish Linux as a stable third platform next to Windows to not be completely bound to Microsoft and have something for political pressure at hand. I guess that is mostly what Valve wants to achieve in the short term.

Sorry, misread your comment slightly. You were talking mostly about Valve or somebody else trying to align the targets of the big houses to support Linux together at at certain point. Here you would need to make several very big egos (may be not as big as the egos in the Linux community, but still .. ;) ) to partly skip their own agenda and work together. I would say this is very very difficult, usually nobody would want to take the risk and everyone wants to take the biggest share of the win, if there is any.


Last edited by jens on 25 Nov 2017 at 12:22 pm UTC

Well, that or a huge marketing push by a very big corporation with enough muscle to line up the big publishers and content providers behind what they can convince same is a not-to-be-missed opportunity for big profit. Valve doesn't seem to want to do that, but even if they did there are questions whether they are in fact big enough and whether their organizational style is capable of that kind of fast push requiring forceful action on a group of fronts at once.

Well, yes. But that would involve some serious money ;). I don't know, something like GTA5 exclusively with superior performance for Linux three years in row for a start. I'm doubting too that Valve could pull such a trick. But even if they are capable, why should they take such a risky and expensive step? They spend enough and keep spending to establish Linux as a stable third platform next to Windows to not be completely bound to Microsoft and have something for political pressure at hand. I guess that is mostly what Valve wants to achieve in the short term.

Sorry, misread your comment slightly. You were talking mostly about Valve or somebody else trying to align the targets of the big houses to support Linux together at at certain point. Here you would need to make several very big egos (may be not as big as the egos in the Linux community, but still .. ;) ) to partly skip their own agenda and work together. I would say this is very very difficult, usually nobody would want to take the risk and everyone wants to take the biggest share of the win, if there is any.

Yeah which is why i kind of think we have come as far as we are going to in terms of the Big triple A games. Not sure why Aspyr appear to completely abandoned linux save for their own IP that they act as publisher on. For now it seems we have Feral and vp when it comes to triple A ports. Growing linux gamer share is going to take a further push from someone with money be it Valve or another Linux friendly development company but it seems unlikely as you said large risk for a potential return.

There are so many problems in getting developers bring a game to linux part of the problem is perception of how hard it is to port games to. The second problem is us the community collectively we are the least welcoming group on the internet and that is saying something. New users to linux are attacked instead of helped and lastly the community members that buy windows games in the hopes of playing the game in wine.
They are a pretty bad road block to a native port, why would a studio pay for a port or buy in the skills they need if your just going to use wine to play the game knowing you cant get a refund because you are playing on platform they do not support.

Yes, I guess this is indeed one of the reason why e.g. Feral is very selective with the games the port to Linux. They have much more Mac ports in their portfolio. Wine is really a double-edged sword. One the one side it is a blessing for people that want to still play some of their older games and thus is for a lot of people the reason to abandon Windows. On the other side wine is taking market share from studio's like Feral that want to bring some big titles afterwards to Linux. I avoid wine completely for gaming. Day one releases would solve this issue, but no sane publisher would risk their release day for the really big titles with customized engines etc. for the 1% Linux users.

Yeah which is why i kind of think we have come as far as we are going to in terms of the Big triple A games. Not sure why Aspyr appear to completely abandoned linux save for their own IP that they act as publisher on. For now it seems we have Feral and vp when it comes to triple A ports. Growing linux gamer share is going to take a further push from someone with money be it Valve or another Linux friendly development company but it seems unlikely as you said large risk for a potential return.

I don't think that there will be another big push. From now on I guess it is constant slow grow for the Linux user base. Lets hope that at least at some point we will grow a little bit faster than Windows or Mac users.


Last edited by jens on 26 Nov 2017 at 6:28 pm UTC

Yes, I guess this is indeed one of the reason why e.g. Feral is very selective with the games the port to Linux. They have much more Mac ports in their portfolio. Wine is really a double-edged sword. One the one side it is a blessing for people that want to still play some of their older games and thus is for a lot of people the reason to abandon Windows. On the other side wine is taking market share from studio's like Feral that want to bring some big titles afterwards to Linux. I avoid wine completely for gaming. Day one releases would solve this issue, but no sane publisher would risk their release day for the really big titles with customized engines etc. for the 1% Linux users.

Yeah which is why i kind of think we have come as far as we are going to in terms of the Big triple A games. Not sure why Aspyr appear to completely abandoned linux save for their own IP that they act as publisher on. For now it seems we have Feral and vp when it comes to triple A ports. Growing linux gamer share is going to take a further push from someone with money be it Valve or another Linux friendly development company but it seems unlikely as you said large risk for a potential return.

I don't think that their will be another big push. From now on I guess it is constant slow grow for the Linux user base. Lets hope that at least at some point we will grow a little bit faster than Windows or Mac users.[/quote]
No I agree i think we have gone as far as we are going to go at least in terms of big pushes. I do not think we are going to get one of those valve conferences where they make the mistake of promising big triple a titles coming to linux Witcher 3 SF 5 etc. I think 2k Sega etc will continue to port some games over to linux anything xcom related seems a given or total war.