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I wouldn't even say ppa is acceptable. The problem is the mentality between the other operating systems and most Linux distributions.

For example, I install Windows 10, it (mostly) detects the hardware quite well now and it is usable as a basic OS out of the box, then you have to either hunt online for the applications you want, or start buying them from the Windows store or digital or physical stores.

Macs are similar. Linux, depending on your hardware is either an out of box experience with everything working, or a pain in the butt if you have one of those wifi cards that are problematic. And of course due to thw licensing of nvidia drivers, they are pretty much never just installed when the hardware is detected. Granted, it is usually just a command or two away, but ususually you have to look something up. Most average people are too lazy. Only real way for it to take off as a proper competition is to get more manufacturers to pre-install it and some quick documentation on how to get software.

Quoting: Leopard

Quoting: tmtvlUgh, still so many people using the crappy NVidia garbage. I suppose that'll change as Wayland becomes more prominent.

Wonder how many people are gonna switch from Intel to AMD after the IME stuff...

Because it works most of the time and performs better than AMD.

This.

Every computer I've had with AMD over the years (including fairly recent models) has caused my nothing but grief... When I bought a new laptop a few months back, I went out of my way to buy a laptop with NVIDIA graphics this time around (my partner's laptop had NVIDIA, and everything always "just worked" ) - the difference has been like night and day.

Don't get me wrong, I'm the sort of guy that often barracks/roots for the underdog and I'd love for AMD to be successful... But I have a literally a dozen laptops surrounding me at the moment, and the only ones that have not had never-ending graphics problems or poor game performance is the two NVIDIA laptops we have.

AMD say they're working on all these problems - but they've been saying this for years and the progress is so ridiculously slow that in my opinion, it's just not worth "waiting another year" for them to sort their s#*t out... NVIDIA might be the "big evil empire", but their stuff "just works" and for now, that's fine by me.

Maybe somewhere down the track I'll give AMD another shot... But it probably won't be for a while.


Last edited by Cyba.Cowboy on 30 December 2017 at 9:18 am UTC

Quoting: GuestA lot of the comments though, it really doesn't seem like open software ideals matter, and they want things like on windows. So when I read about how things that should attract more users, I have to wonder at the cost. Surely open drivers that are installed out of the box will do far more to keep the OS open and free, and GNU/Linux, than reliance on blobs? Which means Intel and AMD (firmware notwithstanding), and encouraging users to look at nouveau.

Most of what I use is Open Source and I will usually choose Open Source software over proprietary software... But I also don't want to spend all day fixing my computers or in the case of gaming, spend hours on end trying to maximize the performance, only to end up with a sub-par experience.

It's not ideal that NVIDIA users need to proprietary drivers for the best performance... But sometimes compromises need to be made.

Quoting: GuestAll of which just makes me ask: why do you use GNU/Linux?

Linux has more to offer than just the ideals of Open Source. Speaking for myself, I prefer Open Source, but don't mind using the NVidia propriety driver (from the negativo17 repositories for Fedora, works really well), Steam, JetBrains Rider or other closed source applications either. What is important for me is that I have an OS that works and that fits into my workflow. I love how Gnome Shell works, prefer how Linux performs, how it is structured and built as OS (e.g. no file locking compared to Windows) and how package management works. Simply stated: Linux is just the better OS, being Open Source is a nice welcome.

PS: That said, I'm not blind. Linux has its shortcomings and Windows or MacOS have their strengths, but overall Linux is the winner for me.


Last edited by jens on 30 December 2017 at 12:08 pm UTC

Quoting: GuestI know this is probably going to heat things up a little, as people tend to be passionate on the subject, but if all anyone carrs for is some proprietary driver being installed as easily as possible for them....why use GNU/Linux in the first place?

I still don't see how finding and searching a website for the right driver package to download and install is somehow easier than using the driver manager applications offered by distros such as Ubuntu and Mint. That's a couple of clicks and a reboot as opposed to something much more complicated, but maybe more familiar to most people. Thankfully I've rarely had to touch Windows computers in the last decade or two, but when I have, even an OEM install on a laptop has often forced me to hunt for driver updates to get things working properly.

Quoting: GuestA lot of the comments though, it really doesn't seem like open software ideals matter, and they want things like on windows.

I think this is at least partly because that's what they're used to. Not because it's actually better or even easier. And true, we can't expect Linux to grow to compete with Windows and Apple and still expect every new user to put ideals before more practical matters.

I'd use an open driver over the nvidia blob if it was better. But I don't see why I have to use exclusively open source stuff. One of the reasons I use Linux over windows is because I simply prefer it. I suppose I don't have as high open source ideals as some. But that isn't my prime reason for using the os.

Quoting: musojon74I'd use an open driver over the nvidia blob if it was better. But I don't see why I have to use exclusively open source stuff.

I don't buy into the whole "you must use Open Source stuff exclusively" mentality that a lot of Linux users seem to have.

Yes Open Source software has a lot of advantages over proprietary software and partially because of this, I'll use Open Source software where I can... But there's just as many scenarios out there where it is not feasible to offer Open Source software, and/or proprietary software simply outperforms the Open Source equivalents.

You can still be a pretty strong Open Source advocate without restricting yourself Richard Stallman-style...


Last edited by Cyba.Cowboy on 30 December 2017 at 12:20 pm UTC

Quoting: GuestIt restricts the use of my hardware in a technical capacity.

Would you really be able to fully use your hardware if there hadn't been any company with some real resources/money behind it? Hardware was difficult 20 years ago and since then it certainly hasn't been getting easier. Some companies do actively support Linux the way the Linux community prefers it (Intel, recently AMD), others support Linux in a less FOSS compatible way (NVidia). Though it is Nvidia's freedom to do it their way. Being not your best friend doesn't automatically makes you an enemy. (Note: you didn't imply that, that's just a general statement)

Quoting: GuestSo yeah, that's why I want FOSS. Want though, not enforce.

Thanks a lot for coming up for your principles, but not trying to force others do to so.


Last edited by jens on 30 December 2017 at 12:48 pm UTC

*Sigh*

Here it goes. Another "Team Red"/"Team Green" crusade.

Quoting: GuestAnd forcing open source I disagree with. I try to use words like encourage, or want, instead of force/must, because ultimately the choice should always be up to the user, and things aren't black & white.

Sorry, this is what I wanted to say. My impression is that you do not force your opinion on others. Thanks for that.


Last edited by jens on 30 December 2017 at 1:30 pm UTC