This is sad, very sad. A developer from The Libretro Team has written up a blog post on the libretro site asking for us and others to highlight an ongoing problem of code getting ripped off and licenses completely ignored. To be clear, it's not just them, there's other examples in that post of other projects also getting the same crappy treatment.
For those who have no idea what The Libretro Team do, they work on Libretro: a simple API that allows for the creation of games and emulators, RetroArch: a frontend for emulators, game engines and media players and Lakka: a light Linux distribution that can turn a computer into a retro-gaming console.
The blog post starts with a rather sad introduction:
Dear game journalists and other members of the press,
We are beyond the point of desperation at this point, and we ask you dearly for your help in this ongoing problem. Independent entrepreneurs are playing loose and fast with the laws and licenses surrounding open source code, and we have found ourselves the victim of multiple copyright and license violations ever since Hyperkin started selling its Retron5 product back in 2014.
It doesn't get any prettier the further you read it either. It's rather a lot to take in, but the jist of it is that multiple people and companies keep ripping off the emulation scene. They take the emulators, bundle it with some cheap hardware and sell it hoping to make a quick buck. The problem stretches over a few years, but it seems to have increased since Nintendo released things like the NES and SNES mini. Naturally, others see such things being popular and think "We can do it too!" and they see money signs in their eyes and think of the massive yacht they can buy with the quick cash.
They've had some success in fighting these, with Amazon taking down the Sen Pi device made by TekSyndicate that used the Lakka distribution, but more problems remain and they have been rather demoralised by the mess of it all. Especially as this year Retro-Bit have now made the "Super Retro Cade" which uses RetroArch. The company has admitted to using it, but the company doesn't even seem sure what emulators it's using.
Side note: I hadn't actually heard of Lakka until today, sounds like an awesome project!
I really feel for them, I can't imagine how crap it feels to have people rip off your code and sell it on without giving back in some way. Of course, not everyone wants something in return for people using their code, but if the license forbids it or instructs you to provide the code with the hardware (or whatever else the license says you need to do), then you should play ball.
Hopefully with us and others highlighting it, some people might think twice before ripping off open source/non-commercial projects. If you do, you will be found out and you will have to pay for it in the end. The problem on top of all this, is that it will put off the very people working on such projects from continuing and if your business relies on their work—good luck doing it yourself.
If, like me, this kind of stuff annoys you, please do spread the word.
All the best to The Libretro Team and anyone else being affected by stuff like this.
Thanks for the tip Brandon.
Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
They were not even aware of that, nor did they bother initially. In the end they gave way, and rewrote the whole product from scratch themselves without the license violations.
Doc Angelo Dec 21, 2017
Quoting: GuestI've been working on Stella (an Atari 2600 emulator) for almost 18 years at the point.
I used Stella a few times. I have to say it is a nice experience, as it is refreshingly different, has a nice GUI, is easy to set up and just works. Thanks for the work, man!
It is the natural and logical result of open source licenses and nobody enforcing them around the globe.
There is a point to be made about closed source software.
If there is no repercussion to doing illegal things, there is no reason not to do them.
Ah, now, I can hear you say:
Because it would be "wrong"!
And to that I say:
Did you ever meet a human being? Morals are a ground so thin it is impossible to base anything on them.
Last edited by TheSHEEEP on 21 December 2017 at 11:38 am UTC
Quoting: TheSHEEEPIt is the natural and logical result of open source licenses and nobody enforcing them around the globe.
That's not true, open source licences are enforced.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IfrOSS
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_Freedom_Law_Center
Maybe one of these can help the emulator teams as well?
Quoting: ShmerlYeah, it's quite nasty when commercial projects just use FOSS as their base, and never contribute anything back or support original developers.
But it is legal as long as they comply with the licence and credit the code used and its respective developers (like zlib , ogg, vorbis etc. licenses). One is not obliged to bundle the code print with the device, only to provide the code on demand.
Quoting: pbJust today I was pondering on whether GOG, Nightdive and others keen on packaging old games with ScummVM and selling them for a fine buck actually contribute to the project themselves. With lots of new games added to ScummVM recently, I certainly hope so, but somehow I doubt it at the same time...
Fully agree.
It makes them so easy to monetize old products again,
so they should at least contribute a fractional amount
of revenues back to the projects they use.
Otherwise, it might be legal but unethical.
It's not just the great ScummVM.
Also DOSBox.
What else projects, btw?
Last edited by sub on 21 December 2017 at 12:16 pm UTC
Doc Angelo Dec 21, 2017
Quoting: TheSHEEEPIf there is no repercussion to doing illegal things, there is no reason not to do them.
Ah, now, I can hear you say:
Because it would be "wrong"!
And to that I say:
Did you ever meet a human being? Morals are a ground so thin it is impossible to base anything on them.
Of course it's possible to base things on morals. It's just not for everyone. Not everyone is the same, and there are people who don't have conscience - literally. For those, there literally is no reason to not do something like this.
Quoting: GuestThere's another side to this mess too. Although people are taking RetroArch and not properly acknowledging its contributions, even fewer people are acknowledging the emulators themselves. That is, even when someone knows and respects what RetroArch is doing, they don't know (or often care) about the emulators behind the scenes.
I've been working on Stella (an Atari 2600 emulator) for almost 18 years at the point. Stella is considered the 'gold standard' for 2600 emulation, but I would bet that most people using RetroArch aren't even aware that the work done for this isn't being done by Lakka, or RetroArch, but by the Stella developers. There are only a few of us, and only one (myself) that has stayed with it so long over the years. And aside from a few small contributions here and there, we receive nothing.
I've even been contacted by companies asking me to port the latest version of Stella to RetroArch so they can use it in their product!
Not to disrespect the work that RetroArch does, but even if they do get the recognition they deserve, I'll bet that it won't filter down to the emulator authors, who are IMO the ones doing the real work.
I never play an Atari 2600 game but I use some PSX/N64 emulators.
I understand how it's bad to sell your open-source work without pay attention about licencies. It's bad when you not acknowledging in contributions.
I juste want to say : Thank your for all your work.
Quoting: EikePlease, don't be naive.Quoting: TheSHEEEPIt is the natural and logical result of open source licenses and nobody enforcing them around the globe.
That's not true, open source licences are enforced.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IfrOSS
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_Freedom_Law_Center
Maybe one of these can help the emulator teams as well?
These may have a certain reach in the Americas and Europe, but besides that?
Some minor (or even major) business in Asia can do mostly whatever they want. Nothing there to keep them in check - or those who could do not really care.
Quoting: Doc AngeloOf course it's possible to base things on morals. It's just not for everyone. Not everyone is the same, and there are people who don't have conscienceAnd those who have conscience can very easily put them aside if enough $$$ is in it.
This is nothing new.
No, morals are a terrible base for any kind dealing between people. Everyone has their own morals and acts according to them, of course. But they have no place in law or its enforcement.
If your whole argument is "don't do something because I think it is wrong", you have already lost your cause.
As long as their is no tangible downside to people using code without adhering to licenses, people will just continue to do so. And to be honest, I don't really see a way to create something tangible.
Quoting: subIt's not just the great ScummVM.
Also DOSBox.
What else projects, btw?
I didn't mention dosbox, because it ceased development years ago. But ScummVM is flourishing so it would be nice if the companies benefiting from it would at least contribute some coding time, if not money...
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