SteamOS has a fresh beta update with some major package updates

The steam machine reminds me the Apple Pippin:

• Hardware same as PC (Macintosh)


• Running a PC OS (MacOS)


• Produced by third parties (Bandai)

The Pippin was a huge failure.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Pippin

Quoting: dubigrasuthere's not much you can ask from it. It already does its job.

Just take a look at other gaming devices for the living room like PS or Xbox. These are multimedia machines with a bunch of video streaming clients. That is state of the art and something you can ask for.

Quoting: opera

Quoting: dubigrasuthere's not much you can ask from it. It already does its job.

Just take a look at other gaming devices for the living room like PS or Xbox. These are multimedia machines with a bunch of video streaming clients. That is state of the art and something you can ask for.

I'm not talking about the Steam Machines, but about the SteamOS as a distro.
Whatever PS/Xbox comparable feature you want from the Steam Machines, they'll have to be integrated available first in the Steam Client, and then SteamOS will have them as well.
Like I said, SteamOS is only designed to run the Steam Client.

Edit: OK, "integrated" was a bad choice of words. This is likely to be interpreted as "part of" the Steam Client, like Broadcasting and Streaming are right now. Definitely not that, but just available for installation.


Last edited by dubigrasu on 6 January 2018 at 5:10 pm UTC

Quoting: liamdaweWhat are your hopes for SteamOS/Steam Machines in 2018?

My hope is that Valve demonstrate a bit more commitment to SteamOS. I would like one beta update per month to be the unremarkable norm and not cause for excitement. I would like to see an ability to at last BROADCAST! I would like to learn that Valve were helping devs port games to Linux, maybe offering a monetary incentive to do so.

My hope for SteamOS in 2018 is that I'll feel more hopeful about SteamOS in 2018.

Quoting: Code ArtisanThe steam machine reminds me the Apple Pippin:

• Hardware same as PC (Macintosh)


• Running a PC OS (MacOS)


• Produced by third parties (Bandai)

The Pippin was a huge failure.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Pippin

That Wikipedia article is gold:

QuoteMarketing failure
Once Bandai licensed Pippin from Apple, Apple made no effort to market the Pippin platform. All the marketing was to be done by the licensees.

Sound familiar??

Quoting: dubigrasuI think many of you are disappointed in SteamOS status because you are actually disappointed by the Steam Machines.
But remember that the purpose of the SteamOS in itself (as a distro) is only to run the Steam Client, which it does fine. Other than a newer Mesa for AMD users (and maybe more frequent updates) there's not much you can ask from it. It already does its job.

If so, then I guess I am either disappointed with the idea of Steam OS, or with the functionality of Steam Client.
For me Steam OS has to offer native Netflix client and native Spotify client. HBO Go would be nice as well. I believe a lot of users want to have native support for stream services like Twitch. All this should be available from OS UI, without a need to use desktop mode (spotify) or browser (Netflix, Twitch).

For now Steam OS is not a console like OS. It is just an OS with Steam preinstalled and launched OOTB. Users other than Linux lovers shouldn't use desktop mode of Steam OS at all. Everything should be available from Big Picture mode.

P.S. Native support for streaming services and Netflix / HBO Go is something that in my opinion killed Ataribox. During advertising guys from Atari said they will provide support for native apps, and then they realized, that there are no such apps and probably those companies are not eager to create native Linux apps for Atari.

Steam Machines represesnt a target for game developers who want to target Linux but don't want to support 1,500 variations.

User: Yo, your game has this weird Issue on DistrobuntuArchCinaMintBang!!!!

Developer: Ahhh, too many targets!!!

With SteamOS -- 1 Target.

And as many have stated years ago we think Valve is counting on long term organic growth -- The game count is at 4,000+, open source drivers are in a much better state and hardware costs for AMD Vega APU will sink the manufacturing costs of Steam Machines thus we could see one that isn't a fireplace melting all the parts in the box.

I hope Valve has some stuff rolled up for E3.


Last edited by ElectricPrism on 5 January 2018 at 8:55 pm UTC

Quoting: wojtek88

Quoting: dubigrasuI think many of you are disappointed in SteamOS status because you are actually disappointed by the Steam Machines.
But remember that the purpose of the SteamOS in itself (as a distro) is only to run the Steam Client, which it does fine. Other than a newer Mesa for AMD users (and maybe more frequent updates) there's not much you can ask from it. It already does its job.

If so, then I guess I am either disappointed with the idea of Steam OS, or with the functionality of Steam Client.
For me Steam OS has to offer native Netflix client and native Spotify client. HBO Go would be nice as well. I believe a lot of users want to have native support for stream services like Twitch. All this should be available from OS UI, without a need to use desktop mode (spotify) or browser (Netflix, Twitch).
For now Steam OS is not a console like OS. It is just an OS with Steam preinstalled and launched OOTB. Users other than Linux lovers shouldn't use desktop mode of Steam OS at all. Everything should be available from Big Picture mode.

P.S. Native support for streaming services and Netflix / HBO Go is something that in my opinion killed Ataribox. During advertising guys from Atari said they will provide support for native apps, and then they realized, that there are no such apps and probably those companies are not eager to create native Linux apps for Atari.

Not many reasons to be disappointed in SteamOS itself. The SteamOS experience (features wise) is as good as the Steam Client allows it to be.
Is a convenient little and basic distro meant to run the Steam Client out of the box and nothing more, (BTW, you don't really need its "Linux desktop" feature to actually run it. That's only a bonus). I think there's nothing wrong with this idea/concept of a distro.
All these feature you want (and we want) belong to the Steam Client, not to SteamOS. (as available apps, but not integrated in the Steam Client.)
The Steam machines didn't failed because SteamOS wasn't doing its job, they failed because (among other strong reasons) the Big Picture experience as is provided by the Steam Client wasn't up to par with what you find on existing consoles. The disappointment is mostly wrongly directed at SteamOS, which just a vehicle for the Steam Client.

Also, ElectricPrism above is right: one other use for SteamOS is to act as a target for gaming developers, which is also a good idea.

Edited for clarity


Last edited by dubigrasu on 6 January 2018 at 5:02 pm UTC

I haven't been prompted for the update on my Dell steam machine. Better check that beta button again but I think it's been checked the entire time.

Quoting: TheRiddickThe drivers are almost at green flag state for AMD, Kernel 4.15 release will be great if they introduce DC. But I hear 4.16 will also be quite good.

Once that happens then Valve shouldn't have too many more hurdles for Linux gaming in 2018, it was a pipe dream when they first launched the idea because only NVIDIA had drivers capable of actually doing good.

Now all we need is Microsoft to force steam games to sign in through their store system, now that would be funny as all hell! (that originally got valve pushing for SteamOS Linux in the first place)

PS.
I think steam machines should have used those laptop slot in PCIe cards to reduce price (they are cheaper I would assume). However I think only NVIDIA produced them.

I've been buying more and more games in the Windows store already, because of PlayAnywhere. I have an Xbox One X so for some (but not all games... yet) like Mordor Shadow of War or Cuphead buying them through the Microsoft store allows me to play them on both PC and Xbox. It's starting and Valve needs to get their heads out of the sand.

Quoting: GrazenI've been buying more and more games in the Windows store already, because of PlayAnywhere. I have an Xbox One X so for some (but not all games... yet) like Mordor Shadow of War or Cuphead buying them through the Microsoft store allows me to play them on both PC and Xbox. It's starting and Valve needs to get their heads out of the sand.

I understand your attitude. It sounds nice. But I will add something to this discussion:
I buy games on Steam (or digital versions in local shops if they have better price, never through resellers) using my personal Linux machine. I play them on my personal machine. At work I used to have Windows machine. I was able to play games on that machine. Now at work I have Mac. I am still able to play those games. You need console like experience? You buy small case PC and install SteamOS (or buy Steam Machine) and you don't have to buy those games again. They just work.

What I'm saying is Valve targets more platforms than Microsoft. Microsoft started to promote their console + PC approach some time ago, and that's cool for MS users.

The other topic is number of AAA titles, quality of the ports on Linux and the quality of "console like experience" - they are not yet there, that's why 2,5 years ago I bought PS4...

Quoting: dubigrasuNot many reasons to be disappointed in SteamOS itself. The SteamOS experience (features wise) is as good as the Steam Client allows it to be.

Quoting: dubigrasuAll these feature you want (and we want) belong to the Steam Client, not to SteamOS.
The Steam machines didn't failed because SteamOS wasn't doing its job, they failed because (among other strong reasons) the Big Picture experience as is provided by the Steam Client wasn't up to par with what you find on existing consoles. The disappointment is mostly wrongly directed at SteamOS, which just a vehicle for the Steam Client.

I don't agree here. I don't want Netflix/Spotify/Amazon Prime/whatever support in Steam. But if I buy a Steam Machine, running SteamOS, I want an easy way to access those third party tools, just like my PS4 does.

Sure, SteamOS is linked to Steam, and I get that. But they shouldn't be if they truly want to offer SteamOS as a viable "console" experience. People keep saying "...but SteamOS isn't competing with consoles!!", but if the public see it as a console alternative, then it really, really is competing with consoles. And it fails, badly - more expensive, less AAA games, no third party support. Literally, not a single reason to buy a Steam Machine (except Linux gamers wanting a couch experience) and nothing exciting about running Steam OS otherwise.

I think ElectricPrism nailed it - it's a development target now and nothing more.

Quoting: scaine

Quoting: dubigrasuNot many reasons to be disappointed in SteamOS itself. The SteamOS experience (features wise) is as good as the Steam Client allows it to be.

Quoting: dubigrasuAll these feature you want (and we want) belong to the Steam Client, not to SteamOS.
The Steam machines didn't failed because SteamOS wasn't doing its job, they failed because (among other strong reasons) the Big Picture experience as is provided by the Steam Client wasn't up to par with what you find on existing consoles. The disappointment is mostly wrongly directed at SteamOS, which just a vehicle for the Steam Client.

I don't agree here. I don't want Netflix/Spotify/Amazon Prime/whatever support in Steam. But if I buy a Steam Machine, running SteamOS, I want an easy way to access those third party tools, just like my PS4 does.

Well, I would prefer to have the possibility to access them on any Linux distro I may choose, (and while browsing the Big Picture is a straightforward way to do it, at least for the moment), not to be something tied to SteamOS and Steam Machines only.
But to each his own.

Edit: To clarify one thing, when I say support for Netflix/etc in Steam, by that I mean these features/apps should be available and install-able (or uninstallable if you chose so) from the Steam Client's Big Picture mode.
I most definitely don't want them integrated in the Steam Client, the way Broadcasting or Streaming are right now.
I have the feeling that this is what you understood from my previous posts, hope this clarify things a bit.


Last edited by dubigrasu on 6 January 2018 at 4:58 pm UTC

QuoteI understand your attitude. It sounds nice. But I will add something to this discussion:
I buy games on Steam (or digital versions in local shops if they have better price, never through resellers) using my personal Linux machine. I play them on my personal machine. At work I used to have Windows machine. I was able to play games on that machine. Now at work I have Mac. I am still able to play those games. You need console like experience? You buy small case PC and install SteamOS (or buy Steam Machine) and you don't have to buy those games again. They just work.

What I'm saying is Valve targets more platforms than Microsoft. Microsoft started to promote their console + PC approach some time ago, and that's cool for MS users.

The other topic is number of AAA titles, quality of the ports on Linux and the quality of "console like experience" - they are not yet there, that's why 2,5 years ago I bought PS4...

Not sure I understand? I have every system (yes, every). If the game is available on Linux, I buy it on Steam so that I can play it across PC platforms. If the game is PS4 or Switch exclusive, I'll buy it for that platform. If the game is Xbox / Windows I'll buy it on the Microsoft store and play it across PC and console. I don't think any Xbox One PlayAnywhere games are even out for Mac / Linux - so I don't get your point. As for PS4, that's probably the worst and most proprietary platform (well that and Switch) - forcing you to repurchase games games via a streaming service is anti-consumer.

Quoting: GrazenI've been buying more and more games in the Windows store already, because of PlayAnywhere. I have an Xbox One X so for some (but not all games... yet) like Mordor Shadow of War or Cuphead buying them through the Microsoft store allows me to play them on both PC and Xbox. It's starting and Valve needs to get their heads out of the sand.

Quoting: GrazenNot sure I understand? I have every system (yes, every). If the game is available on Linux, I buy it on Steam so that I can play it across PC platforms. If the game is PS4 or Switch exclusive, I'll buy it for that platform. If the game is Xbox / Windows I'll buy it on the Microsoft store and play it across PC and console. I don't think any Xbox One PlayAnywhere games are even out for Mac / Linux - so I don't get your point. As for PS4, that's probably the worst and most proprietary platform (well that and Switch) - forcing you to repurchase games games via a streaming service is anti-consumer.

My point was:
You're claiming that "Valve has to get their heads out of the sand" because of Microsoft PlayAnywhere, that allows you to pay once and play games on both - PC and Xbox One X.
My reaction to this sentence is - Steam offers more - you pay once and you can play your games on multiple OS - Linux, Mac, Windows. If most important thing for you is that you can play your games on PC and on console - Steam allows it as well - you can play on your PC and on your console (Where a console is a PC/Steam Machine with SteamOS installed on it).

Honestly I don't know which point you didn't get - I don't want to be offensive, I just wonder what part is unclear.

Maybe what you want to highlight is that Microsoft has exclusives (with PlayAnywhere you mention), Sony has exclusives (on PS4), Nintendo has exclusives (on Switch/WiiU) but Valve doesn't have any exclusives, while they should have.
If so I misunderstood your sentence.

Quoting: dubigrasuI think many of you are disappointed in SteamOS status because you are actually disappointed by the Steam Machines.
But remember that the purpose of the SteamOS in itself (as a distro) is only to run the Steam Client, which it does fine. Other than a newer Mesa for AMD users (and maybe more frequent updates) there's not much you can ask from it. It already does its job.

Actually, I think most of the discussion has been about Steam Machines, not about SteamOS. Your point about the purpose of SteamOS, as in just the OS itself, is quite accurate . . . but that's why there isn't all that much point talking about SteamOS and I don't think anyone much has been doing so. Basically SteamOS itself, not including user experience issues involved in the Steam client/Big Picture, is pretty boring.
To the extent they have been talking about SteamOS, they've actually been discussing a broader definition of "OS" to include the user experience it gives out of the box (and so things like integration of multimedia sources, in the way that consoles today tend to provide). This broadening is not unreasonable IMO. It's true that in SteamOS technically the OS is separate from the main user interface, the Steam Client, which can be used outside of the OS. But SteamOS is envisioned as a competitor to console OSes for which this is generally not true. So if you're going to talk about the things that PS4 does in its OS versus the things that a machine running SteamOS does not do, it's going to get pretty persnickety to note that the things SteamOS doesn't do wouldn't technically be part of the "OS" in the case of SteamOS. So for a lot of purposes I don't think it's a really useful distinction to insist on, in that it would lead to more confusion rather than less (and I think is actually doing so in this discussion thread).

All that said, I think there is actually room to criticize SteamOS at the OS level. There have been some decent updates just lately, but overall Steam OS has been lagging behind in its use of relevant drivers and other infrastructure relevant to graphics and gaming. This is a bad thing in something whose main purpose (absent actual Steam Machines) is to act as a reference OS for game developers. I suppose there might be arguments that SteamOS should stay fairly conservative to increase the chances that, if something works on SteamOS, it will work on many distros. But the improvements in Linux graphics-related abilities has been fast, making it worth taking advantage of them, while adding newer versions is fairly easy in most Linux distros. So I think it would be useful for SteamOS to be more up to date.


Last edited by Purple Library Guy on 7 January 2018 at 2:07 am UTC

Quoting: Purple Library Guy

Quoting: dubigrasuI think many of you are disappointed in SteamOS status because you are actually disappointed by the Steam Machines.
But remember that the purpose of the SteamOS in itself (as a distro) is only to run the Steam Client, which it does fine. Other than a newer Mesa for AMD users (and maybe more frequent updates) there's not much you can ask from it. It already does its job.

Actually, I think most of the discussion has been about Steam Machines, not about SteamOS. Your point about the purpose of SteamOS, as in just the OS itself, is quite accurate . . . but that's why there isn't all that much point talking about SteamOS and I don't think anyone much has been doing so. Basically SteamOS itself, not including user experience issues involved in the Steam client/Big Picture, is pretty boring.
To the extent they have been talking about SteamOS, they've actually been discussing a broader definition of "OS" to include the user experience it gives out of the box (and so things like integration of multimedia sources, in the way that consoles today tend to provide). This broadening is not unreasonable IMO. It's true that in SteamOS technically the OS is separate from the main user interface, the Steam Client, which can be used outside of the OS. But SteamOS is envisioned as a competitor to console OSes for which this is generally not true. So if you're going to talk about the things that PS4 does in its OS versus the things that a machine running SteamOS does not do, it's going to get pretty persnickety to note that the things SteamOS doesn't do wouldn't technically be part of the "OS" in the case of SteamOS. So for a lot of purposes I don't think it's a really useful distinction to insist on, in that it would lead to more confusion rather than less (and I think is actually doing so in this discussion thread).

All that said, I think there is actually room to criticize SteamOS at the OS level. There have been some decent updates just lately, but overall Steam OS has been lagging behind in its use of relevant drivers and other infrastructure relevant to graphics and gaming. This is a bad thing in something whose main purpose (absent actual Steam Machines) is to act as a reference OS for game developers. I suppose there might be arguments that SteamOS should stay fairly conservative to increase the chances that, if something works on SteamOS, it will work on many distros. But the improvements in Linux graphics-related abilities has been fast, making it worth taking advantage of them, while adding newer versions is fairly easy in most Linux distros. So I think it would be useful for SteamOS to be more up to date.

That's surely one way to see things, and at this point I'm not sure what I can say without repeating myself too and beating the poor old dead horse. My point is simply that SteamOS gets blamed too much for sins that is not actually guilty of. Sort of like kicking the delivery guy for the pizza having not enough pepperoni in it.

Regarding for SteamOS room for improvement, yes there is plenty of it. As an actual SteamOS user I have a long list of things I'd like to see done, but then again, most of the list content can be applied to Linux gaming/distros in general.
The part with the latest drivers is indeed more obvious on the AMD side, where advances happened very fast lately, but is something that is unlikely to change according to Valve's developers. At least one time they've stated that they will go for stability rather than bleeding-edge drivers/features. I do think though that they can pick up the pace a little bit, you definitely get the feeling that they've been dragging their feet.

With all its shortcoming SteamOS is still a very good distro and is definitely not boring if used within its intended purpose. Sure, if someone want to have fun with its system he can go Gentoo or Arch, and definitely not SteamOS. Is not the distro you would recommend to the Linux tinkerer kind of guy, and not even for basic desktop usage, it wasn't meant to do that and is not aiming at pleasing everyone.
I've been a Linux user for 18 years or so, and I do have another bleeding edge system (actually I have several across various PC hardware configurations) where I can go wild and test the latest and the greatest and break stuff as I want, and yes, is a fun system to have.
But when I feel like gaming, then I just fire in a couple of seconds my SteamOS, get the SteamController in hands and here I go. This is where SteamOS perfectly fits.

Quoting: dubigrasuBut when I feel like gaming, then I just fire in a couple of seconds my SteamOS, get the SteamController in hands and here I go. This is where SteamOS perfectly fits.

I already forgot, but this sentence is one of the reasons I didn't decide to buy Alienware Steam Machine.

Currently with PS4, I sit on the couch, take Dualshock that was laying on the couch, press button on the gamepad and console is waking up.

With Steam Machine / PC with SteamOS on it the order is different: You need to go to the machine, press power button and then go to the couch and wake up the controller.

For me kind of bummer.

Quoting: wojtek88

Quoting: dubigrasuBut when I feel like gaming, then I just fire in a couple of seconds my SteamOS, get the SteamController in hands and here I go. This is where SteamOS perfectly fits.

I already forgot, but this sentence is one of the reasons I didn't decide to buy Alienware Steam Machine.

Currently with PS4, I sit on the couch, take Dualshock that was laying on the couch, press button on the gamepad and console is waking up.

With Steam Machine / PC with SteamOS on it the order is different: You need to go to the machine, press power button and then go to the couch and wake up the controller.

For me kind of bummer.

Are you sure, though? I think that the dongles are capable of USB wake-up, whatever that means, if enabled in the BIOS. A quick search leads me to think that it is possible at least on the Zotac NEN, but the feature might only work from S3/S1 resume (more research/testing needed)

Quoting: wojtek88

Quoting: dubigrasuBut when I feel like gaming, then I just fire in a couple of seconds my SteamOS, get the SteamController in hands and here I go. This is where SteamOS perfectly fits.

I already forgot, but this sentence is one of the reasons I didn't decide to buy Alienware Steam Machine.

Currently with PS4, I sit on the couch, take Dualshock that was laying on the couch, press button on the gamepad and console is waking up.

With Steam Machine / PC with SteamOS on it the order is different: You need to go to the machine, press power button and then go to the couch and wake up the controller.

For me kind of bummer.

This feature does work on SteamOS but the access to it was eventually disabled by Valve's developers, which found at the time that it wasn't 100% reliable on Linux.

The Steam Client runs on SteamOS through a special "-steamos" flag that alters slightly the client behaviour and features to fit some SteamOS characteristics (for example its custom compositor), and disabling/hiding the USB wake-up is one these alteration.
You can remove the flag and get the classic client and the USB wake-up back, but this is not the intended behaviour.

However, you can still enable it back from the desktop mode and use the Steam Controller (wired or wireless) to start your SteamOS/Steam Machine without moving from your couch.

This is one of the point from my list I mentioned earlier btw, where SteamOS can and needs to be improved.