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PayPalI'll be honest, I'm not too bothered about Project Contingency [Official Site] deciding not to support Linux because I've only just heard of it, it's still in the early stages and Installation 01 [Official Site] will support Linux.
I'm highlighting this, due to what the developers of Project Contingency said in a recent news post about why they aren't going to support Linux.
There are a few issues with Linux. For one, there are an absurdly small amount of people that actually game on Linux. Because of this, the amount of work that we would need to put into developing for Linux would not be worth it.
The amount of people actually using Linux for gaming is always a difficult topic to address. If you're comparing it with Windows, sure, Linux gaming is a lot smaller. I don't think there's a real reliable way to actually check how many people are gaming on Linux. I just don't think it's worth arguing over and considering this is a fan-made project done in their spare time—fair enough.
But there are other issues as well. Writing a reliable anti-cheat for Linux is not easy and cannot be enforced. What with Linux being open sourced, it's extremely difficult to write an anti-cheat for that platform because anybody can make any changes they want to the OS. That means easily tricking an anti-cheat into thinking it's working when it's actually just counting time and taking up memory.
This is one I'm personally not too sure about. I've read a lot of mixed feelings about anti-cheat on Linux, I'm sure plenty of you will be able to clear that up in the comments with your thoughts. It might be harder, it might not be, I think it all comes down to how well you know the system, like everything else doesn't it? BattlEye came out with Linux support, so it can't be impossible to do.
Aside from anti-cheat, there aren't any clear options for a graphics API. Windows has support for both DX12 and Vulkan. To my knowledge, at this time, neither of the developers for those API's have released official implementations for either and using unofficial wrappers, emulators, etc.. could end up leading to weird and unfortunate bugs that we wouldn't have any control over.
This is the bit that really got me. To me, this shows their inexperience with graphical APIs and it really sounds like they don't quite understand what they're talking about. Not that I claim to understand all that goes into making games, however I feel like I have a reasonable grasp on things now to at least say this: Unreal Engine 4 supports OpenGL and Vulkan on Linux (they didn't even mention OpenGL at all), it has issues for sure that we've seen, but it is getting better and there's a few good games out there using UE4 on Linux that work reasonably well like: Everspace, Helium Rain, Astrokill, All Walls Must Fall, >observer_ and more. The way they've written that is very strange indeed.
As far as I'm concerned, nothing to see here, moving along!
Thanks for the tip Sasa.
Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
ElectricPrism Feb 4, 2018
A community project that doesn't support a community OS is absurd -- assuming it doesn't become vaporware in the near future.
When they grow up they will become enlightened and change their minds as both the graphics API and Engine are Linux First Class.
Until then I'm sure someone will get Installation 01 running native or Halo Online running in wine which is basically just Halo 3 for PC.
Last edited by ElectricPrism on 4 February 2018 at 9:02 pm UTC
heidi.wenger Feb 4, 2018
QuoteProject Contingency was created under Microsoft's "Game Content Usage Rules" using assets from Halo. It's not endorsed by Microsoft and does not reflect the views or opinions of Microsoft or anyone officially involved in producing or managing Halo.
Yes, yes..
Quoting: heidi.wengerQuoteProject Contingency was created under Microsoft's "Game Content Usage Rules" using assets from Halo. It's not endorsed by Microsoft and does not reflect the views or opinions of Microsoft or anyone officially involved in producing or managing Halo.
Yes, yes..
The game content usage rules state that fan-projects may not use ripped assets. The assets themselves can be as close as the artist wants, so long as they did it themselves.
qptain Nemo Feb 4, 2018
Quoting: heidi.wengerWell well well, apparently it does reflect after all. :DQuoteProject Contingency was created under Microsoft's "Game Content Usage Rules" using assets from Halo. It's not endorsed by Microsoft and does not reflect the views or opinions of Microsoft or anyone officially involved in producing or managing Halo.
Yes, yes..
GustyGhost Feb 4, 2018
QuoteWindows has support for both DX12 and Vulkan.
While Vulkan has support for both Windows and Linux. Develop for one API, runs multiple platforms > Develop for multiple APIs, runs only one platform.
These devs have played perfectly into the worm-on-a-hook tactic employed by DirectX *hand rubbing intensifies*
PublicNuisance Feb 4, 2018
It is same old "F-antastic" stories people, don't y'all smells it?
Would have been curios of a fan re-write.
Oh well , like Liam pointed out there is Installation 01.
And yeah these devs seem kinda inept going by that statement , or they have a VERY flimsy excuse.
Quoting: GuestWow, they basically just put out a post saying that they don't know what they're doing.Yeah, I think we're better off without this one, to be honest. I'm not saying I wouldn't like a fan-made Halo remake, but it's hardly GTA or Skyrim, and you can see where this would lead. Their Linux support would be terrible, the community would get angry, the developers would become disillusioned, and ultimately the bad publicity would stick to the Linux community, not them, simply because there are more people not using Linux - who'll be receptive to their side of the story - than are.
Quoting: DuncQuoting: GuestWow, they basically just put out a post saying that they don't know what they're doing.Yeah, I think we're better off without this one, to be honest. I'm not saying I wouldn't like a fan-made Halo remake, but it's hardly GTA or Skyrim, and you can see where this would lead. Their Linux support would be terrible, the community would get angry, the developers would become disillusioned, and ultimately the bad publicity would stick to the Linux community, not them, simply because there are more people not using Linux - who'll be receptive to their side of the story - than are.
What bothers me the most about it isn't that we're missing out on a game, but that these uneducated and simply false statements could be easily read by those who have also convinced themselves that Linux support isn't worthwile; and used to spread more fud about our platform. Most of the things I hear gamers say about Linux is the same parroted crap I've heard before, I don't want this to add to the pile. My only hope is that these developers can prove their statements false with their own incompetence, and that people notice.
As people have already done in these comments, most of their statements can be picked apart. The particular one that stands out to me is that they still have their sights set on mac support. Mac support seems like an oddball to me for a couple reasons. Mac suffers from a low gaming userbase (which they state as a reason to not develop for Linux). The Apple platform is hardware restricted, meaning most mac users don't have hardware capable of playing games or playing games well (further exacerbating the problem with userbase size). Of the two graphics APIs they list ( DX12 and Vulkan ) MacOS supports neither; meaning that they would have to either develop in openGL ( which they neglected to mention as an option, and would support Linux as well as windows ), or Apple's Metal ( which still means they have to develop with 2 different APIs for 2 different platforms.) In my opinion, as an outsider to game development, MacOS seems more difficult than linux to support.
Lets just hope the devs for installation 01 don't back out too, fingers crossed.
Last edited by SpaceAce on 5 February 2018 at 1:18 am UTC
Quoting: razing32Never been a Halo fan.
Would have been curios of a fan re-write.
Oh well , like Liam pointed out there is Installation 01.
And yeah these devs seem kinda inept going by that statement , or they have a VERY flimsy excuse.
I actually am attempting to coordinate a project to rewrite Halo's underlying BLAM! engine for native cross-platform play of Halo PC and Custom Edition maps. Here's the project's GitHub organization page.
unfortunately, the project is still in its infancy and we are in need of team members who can understand assembly and debugging. Work is being done behind the scenes, but it's very slow going at the time of writing.
Last edited by D34VA_ on 5 February 2018 at 1:50 am UTC
I think that one of the biggest problem of all gaming/applications projects is that they always start with the multiplatform idea (you know, it sells!), but they just start programming using Windows development tools not even thinking nor testing if what you're doing can crosscompile. So, in essence, I'm convinced that all this guys/enterprise that starts a project and promise multiplatfom support simply think that they can pospone other platform support to a final stage of development, when it MUST be parallel work.
QuoteThank you to @Raven67854 for pointing out that Vulkan is actually supported on Linux. My apologies, I'll try not to make mistakes like this in the future. However, this unfortunately does not change our decision regarding Linux. It's not 100% (out) of the question but definitely out of the scope for what we're trying to do right now. - Joshe343
So it may come to Linux at some point, but likely some time after the initial release, if at all. It would be nice, but with the general sentiment towards Linux and Linux gamers, I'm not holding my breath.
If not, there's always Installation 01, and if it ever gets finished, TiaraCE.
Last edited by D34VA_ on 5 February 2018 at 7:31 am UTC
lucifertdark Feb 5, 2018
QuoteWindows has support for both DX12 and Vulkan.LOL! With their level of expertise I doubt they can handle even DirectX 9, let alone Vulkan or other low-level "close to hardware" API. :D
wvstolzing Feb 5, 2018
I've been seeing variants of this notion elsewhere --- that being open source is a security liability, because 'the bad guys can also see how everything works, etc. etc.' ---- in the news, non-technical opinion articles, etc. It's worrying to see BS of this sort gaining traction.
Quoting: aFoxNamedMorrisQuoting: razing32Never been a Halo fan.
Would have been curios of a fan re-write.
Oh well , like Liam pointed out there is Installation 01.
And yeah these devs seem kinda inept going by that statement , or they have a VERY flimsy excuse.
I actually am attempting to coordinate a project to rewrite Halo's underlying BLAM! engine for native cross-platform play of Halo PC and Custom Edition maps. Here's the project's GitHub organization page.
unfortunately, the project is still in its infancy and we are in need of team members who can understand assembly and debugging. Work is being done behind the scenes, but it's very slow going at the time of writing.
I'm not a coder by trade and can't really contribute like that.
But I might make a donation if you guys need it :)
Quoting: razing32I'm not a coder by trade and can't really contribute like that.
But I might make a donation if you guys need it :)
I appreciate the sentiment, but unfortunately, we cannot accept monetary donations of any kind. If you would like to help, please consider spreading word. Some programmer or software engineer out there will eventually notice.
Last edited by D34VA_ on 5 February 2018 at 12:55 pm UTC
Quoting: SpaceAceWhat bothers me the most about it isn't that we're missing out on a game, but that these uneducated and simply false statements could be easily read by those who have also convinced themselves that Linux support isn't worthwile; and used to spread more fud about our platform.Excellent point. Frankly, I don't think such a tiny developer's statements will have much of an impact but, as you say, it all adds to the pile.
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