Windows 10 S might alarm Valve into boosting SteamOS again

So if my gaming rig came with Win10Pro, next build will lock me out of win32 api, unless i pay 49$ ? Or i'll try to use Home edition or maybe turn off Windows Update service or... uhmm i will move full time to linux with my PS4 as gaming backup..

https://www.theverge.com/2018/2/3/16968024/microsoft-windows-10-s-mode-editions-features

I was wondering if SteamOS will jump someday in Wayland, as nothing is flawless some is more than others, X is insecure and someday not so far from today will not be the standard anymore, so, if some company use that as anti SteamOS, devs will just stay on easiest path that desktop gamers are already used to be and Valve will bleed out customers or am I too speculative about that?

Note: I've updated the intro of the article to better reflect my own point vs what the source link contains, hope that clears any miscommunication on my part there.

Quoting: GuestYawn. Propaganda.

See above, hopefully my miss-wording there makes it clearer that's my thought on it, not what is actually said. Also, your attitude continually stinks, please stop.

Quoting: julespetrikov

Quoting: liamdaweWell, the source link also links to this post. In there, it specifically states all versions of Windows will have the S mode. There would be no reason to add the S mode to every single version, if they weren't going to use it to start everyone off in future. It makes perfect sense that Microsoft will have S as the initial thing you see in future. If you think Microsoft wouldn't move like that, you've clearly not seen all the things they've tried in the past.

The entire point is that if Microsoft do move towards this in the desktop space, then it could be a disaster.

Edit: Spelling.

Sure, but "all versions having an S mode" (amazingly stupid naming policy by the way. go microsoft!) doesn't necessarily mean that S mode will be defaulted on all rig or mobile device purchases or will default itself on current rigs; what it really means and the later article you base your own indicates that every Windows version (as in Home and Pro) will have an S mode available.

See above note as well :)

I still think they will eventually attempt a lock-in to their store on desktops, it's the ultimate goal in my opinion. Why wouldn't it be? They want people to use their store, so they get more income. Apple is doing very similar moves.

Edit: Spelling.


Last edited by Liam Dawe on 5 February 2018 at 12:32 pm UTC

Windows 10 S mode seems like a small issue... when compared with the upcoming Windows Polaris. (edit: Which *cannot* be upgraded at all)

https://www.windowscentral.com/understanding-windows-core-os-and-polaris

But yep, I hope this lights a fire under Valve to make a huge push for Linux :) Maybe it's just me, but it does seem like they've been making more updates to Steam OS lately than usual.


Last edited by natewardawg on 5 February 2018 at 12:54 pm UTC

I don't bother with Windows, personally (outside of needing to use it at work), but, I don't think Window's S Mode is of any real issue. The problem is MS has been slowly (and clumsily, most of the time) sliding Windows, and its user base towards a locked in OS. Microsoft is using general user psychology to keep them in MS's own ecosystem (read, store) for as long as possible. They'll let everyone know there's a "free" way out of this lock in, but they know the vast majority won't bother, giving them a numbers win as "evidence" the lock in is what people want.

On the gaming side... MS is tying Windows and XBox together as much as they can. Their new XBox Game Pass (Netflix for XBox games, essentially) is, admittedly, attractive and most definitely another method to lock Gamers into Windows even more.

The truth is... Steam freakin' dropped the ball HARD with Steam OS. They released something only arguably functional that, at this point, only Linux gamers even know still exists as a thing. It definitely doesn't feel like Value has gone out of their way to push "Steam OS" game development. On top of that, as a user mentioned in a post above, Steam OS is NOT an OS as Windows is. Steam OS is for competing with the likes of PS4, XBOne, and Switch, not Windows itself.

The worst part... if it happens... will be Microsoft buying Valve. It seems this is currently under consideration by MS, and IF it happens, that will be the biggest blow to gaming on Linux. Steam will get integrated into the Windows store (and, eventually abandoned on Linux). Steam OS will most definitely be shelved. There will no longer be ANY promotion of Linux as a gaming platform from Value-MS. Sure, there will be some Linux-positive outliers for a time, but, without any BIG name promoting the platform in ANY way... poof.

That's my opinion.

Quoting: GuestYawn. Propaganda. Windows 10 S is to compete against Chromebook. Simple as that. As the article notes, 10 S can be easily unlocked for free to 10 Home which functions as normal.

If MS (or Apple with it's Mac App Store for that matter) tried to lock down Windows to their store only, across the entire range, they'd be sued before they could say "antitrust".

The real interest with SteamOS from publishers, was Steam Machines. They were interested in a console market without the interference and high cost that you get on MS/Sony/Nintendo's console systems, and they initially thought porting the Windows version of titles would be "easy". They were put off by the nonavailability of the hardware, and relatively poor 3D performance.

Windows 10 S is almost outdated, MS is already planning the "Windows Core OS" that is supposed to replace x32_64 with UWP architecture and their Store would be the only place to get sofrware from.


Last edited by MaCroX95 on 5 February 2018 at 1:00 pm UTC

People already accusing and condemning Microsoft for it might or might not (want to) do in the future. Bravo. Also liamdawe, julespetrikov has been nothing but polite in his comments so far, we don't have to agree with him but how does 'his attitude stink'? Simply because he doesn't agree with our worldview?

Quoting: chancho_zombieI'am glad they are doing this! Most Windows users have zero knowledge of security and will run things as administrator, or don't install an antivirus and that sort of things. Since the wannacry and recent botnets spreading all over the world Microsoft needs to take security more seriously. How is it possible that Android or IOS are not infected at same level as windows by botnets?? because you don't run things as root and you can only install things from trusted sources (on Android u can turn that off but that's not default). I know this might be a conservative point of view. But why does stupidity of windows users has to f*ck everyone else?? I know what most of u think, - I don't care I run Linux -. But stupid windows users might as well shutdown half the internet with botnets and DDoS. If you are so stupid of running things as an administrator, and not having a firewall and antivirus you really deserve it.(I mean windows users on linux u can get along without firewall and antivirus).

In an era of exploits where a piece of rogue Javascript can snoop any data in your RAM, limiting what you can install on your operating system hardly seems like the ultimate security solution. And that thing about Android? Yeah, Android malware is a thing and the Play Market is the way it gets on Android devices.

I think there's also a quote out there about trading liberty for security...

Quoting: manus76People already accusing and condemning Microsoft for it might or might not (want to) do in the future. Bravo. Also liamdawe, julespetrikov has been nothing but polite in his comments so far, we don't have to agree with him but how does 'his attitude stink'? Simply because he doesn't agree with our worldview?

I was quoting Jaycee talking about his attitude, not julespetrikov. Replies come after the quote, not before ;)

For a little history Jaycee has had a lot of outburst in our IRC channel (to the point of being banned more than once) for saying some really idiotic anti-Linux stuff.

Quoting: MaCroX95Windows 10 S is almost outdated, MS is already planning the "Windows Core OS" that is supposed to replace x32_64 with UWP architecture and their Store would be the only place to get sofrware from.

Given Microsofts history of being unable to sell backward-incompatible changes well, part of the modular approach will likely be a compatibility layer (though I can imagine it becoming restricted to Pro or Enterprise versions). I guess that's essentially what the optional Win32 module will be.

Generally I'd say that they have little choice about this move. They NEED a version of Windows suitable for mobile devices.

Quoting: rustybroomhandleIf you told people that in order to continue running Windows they have to allow a Microsoft goon to bash their finger in with a hammer once a month, I suspect most people would still continue to run Windows. Except now they'd be typing slower with their bashed in finger.

While I agree completely with this degree of Stockholm syndrome being prevalent, I do think that if anything is going to dethrone Windows and shake people up it's Windows stopping being an open platform. Not everyone cares for sure, but I reckon a lot of people do, people who do any development, any serious gaming, just about anything past most casual usage. So I consider them pushing this lockdown not a potential disaster but a very very fortunate possibility. Nothing will show the naked emperor that is Windows for what it is like losing its vast library of "legacy" software and games. I really wish they do this.

Quoting: liamdawe

Quoting: manus76People already accusing and condemning Microsoft for it might or might not (want to) do in the future. Bravo. Also liamdawe, julespetrikov has been nothing but polite in his comments so far, we don't have to agree with him but how does 'his attitude stink'? Simply because he doesn't agree with our worldview?

I was quoting Jaycee talking about his attitude, not julespetrikov. Replies come after the quote, not before ;)

For a little history Jaycee has had a lot of outburst in our IRC channel (to the point of being banned more than once) for saying some really idiotic anti-Linux stuff.

Sorry Liam, misunderstanding.
Please, others join the discussion, I get my popcorn ready ;-)

Quoting: barottoMicrosoft is trying to lock down Windows since Vista. They'll succeed sooner or later. Thankfully we have alternatives.

You can do a lot with your users today before they start to leave your platform, but MS is so clumsy, they might end up locking people out, instead of in.

Quoting: chancho_zombieI think there's also a quote out there about trading liberty for security...

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin

This one?

Quoting: julespetrikovI don't use Windows for production at all but I'm going to be that guy.

I can hardly think of any cases where SteamOS and Windows 10S could be competitors in any way. SteamOS is not designed to be an everyday-usage Operating System while Windows 10S was and still is nothing more than an embedded and/or mobile Operating System that is a direct competitor to ChromeOS. SteamOS on the other hand is designed to be a multimedia system for living rooms. This comparison is like putting Android in the same basket as BSD-like PS4. They are different.

Microsoft's next step is clearly the Polaris project and it won't be locked to only UWP applications and/or only Microsoft Store applications. That would be quite absurd in any situation. That is going to be the competitor to Desktop Linux, not SteamOS. SteamOS has no competitor, it runs PC games.

Look, I don't like Windows at all. It's a fine OS but less configurable, update system is a mess and is not something I would use for my everyday tasks. But let's not compare apples and oranges here. Windows 10S highly unlikely to affect Valve's vision of Steam Machines. If they have a slightest plan in their minds about SteamOS, it would be about home entertainment of all sorts, not exclusively gaming.

S modes purpose is (at least in part) to shrink future market for third party stores like Steam and GOG. New users, who just purchased a machine with a preinstalled Windows S mode, won't change that default, because the system will tell them it's dangerous. Most of them will never even try Steam or GOG.

Quoting: qptain NemoNothing will show the naked emperor that is Windows for what it is like losing its vast library of "legacy" software and games. I really wish they do this.

Currently, there is a lot of effectively Windows-only software. E.g. GIMP and LibreOffice are great for private and light-weight use, and have use-cases where they are superior, but for professional use compatibility with the customers, colleagues and business partners, and all the other proprietary software is far too important to drop the likes of Photoshop and Powerpoint.

It really comes down to support from the makers of defacto-standard commercial software. As long as those will rather port to UWP than to Linux, Microsoft will only lose niche customers.

I'm pretty sure they are not going to make moves, that remove software developers from the equation, though it is entirely possible for the features needed by these niche audiences to require an upgrade to a "professional" version, were previously "home" would have been fine.

It's just a matter of time. Microsoft will GRADUALLY push Windows 10S wherever they can and when developpers will jump on board, users will get numbed enough to the UWP when they realize that they can do everything they want with the Windows 10S edition. We might even see users requiring Steam to be integrated to the UWP and/or Steam will see a gradual decline at the same time that the UWP will be accepted. Habit is strong in Windows users... At this point, it will become the defacto standard for all sold devices (desktop included). Once this is done, there will be no more upgrade paths. The argument will be something like: "Nobody uses the home edition of Windows anymore so we drop support."

Not saying it is going to happen, but I'm quite sure Microsft's strategy is not far from that. This plan started the day Microsoft released Windows 10S.


Last edited by Mohandevir on 5 February 2018 at 2:28 pm UTC

Windows 10S is actually going away (it's just a hobbled version of Windows 10 Pro) and will be replaced by Windows 10 Core OS which is based on a unified Windows Core across platforms and systems. This should be a much improved version of Windows and it appears positioned to only allow protected apps (ie Windows Store) to run. This will likely happen over time (as did the transition from Windows to Windows NT) but as I said, it will bring benefits to users in terms of resource allocation and protection from viruses and malware. Electron apps will also be relied on to bring some back compatibility though over time developers are expected to move to UWP apps.

For Valve, this will be an even bigger issue for a few reasons, the biggest of which is that this transition makes sense for Microsoft. It's not just a hobbled version of 10 - it's a new Windows Core that provides actual benefits that users will want. Gamers might scream, but the plan will proceed. It seems to me that many of the benefits of Core OS are already available on many Linux flavors, and the push by Microsoft into electron apps (apparently there's an electron version of Microsoft Office coming) may improve Linux compatibility.

Valve *is* threatened, but I think that ultimately Microsoft will make a deal to allow third party stores like Steam as long as they follow certain Windows protocols. While I hope to see a bigger push on SteamOS, the path of least resistance likely lies through Microsoft.

Quoting: webcreatureS modes purpose is (at least in part) to shrink future market for third party stores like Steam and GOG. New users, who just purchased a machine with a preinstalled Windows S mode, won't change that default, because the system will tell them it's dangerous. Most of them will never even try Steam or GOG.

That intention itself is highly fantastic as you can't push a market to shrink by selling incompatible operating systems. Microsoft's intention and the purpose of S Mode is clearly rigging prices and forcing the consumer to pay an additional fee to both vendors and Microsoft so that they could have their favourite platforms and software installed on those machines. Which will eventually force consumer not to consume such devices and Microsoft will only be selling portable and/or specialist devices which is what Windows 10 S was intended for and is widely being used for as of today. Their Surface book whatever editions are competitors to Chromebooks (and Macbooks as they're too closed environments). Microsoft is making money from cloud-based services and hardware around those services.

There's no way in coming years that Microsoft can, in anyway, compete with Steam or GOG on PC. That's out of question. There's no such future unless Microsoft buys Valve. That's also a laughably distant possibility.


Last edited by julespetrikov on 5 February 2018 at 2:54 pm UTC

Quoting: julespetrikov

Quoting: webcreatureS modes purpose is (at least in part) to shrink future market for third party stores like Steam and GOG. New users, who just purchased a machine with a preinstalled Windows S mode, won't change that default, because the system will tell them it's dangerous. Most of them will never even try Steam or GOG.

That intention itself is highly fantastic as you can't push a market to shrink by selling incompatible operating systems. Microsoft's intention and the purpose of S Mode is clearly rigging prices and forcing the consumer to pay an additional fee to both vendors and Microsoft so that they could have their favourite platforms and software installed on those machines. Which will eventually force consumer not to consume such devices and Microsoft will only be selling portable and/or specialist devices which is what Windows 10 S was intended for and is widely being used for as of today. Their Surface book whatever editions are competitors to Chromebooks (and Macbooks as they're too closed environments). Microsoft is making money from cloud-based services and hardware around those services.

There's no way in coming years that Microsoft can, in anyway, compete with Steam or GOG on PC. That's out of question. There's no such future unless Microsoft buys Valve. That's also a laughably distant possibility.

I disagree! When the propriator of the one OS that is pre-installed on almost every sold gaming ready PC, decides to pre configure this OS to a default that makes Steam incompatible, and when the user has to change that configuration against warnings that tell him this step might be dangerous, then a big percentage of mostly new users will not do that. And that will shrink the user-base potential for Steam, not actual numbers of course.
OR.. people decide to use an alternate OS instead, which I'd like very much of course.. Do you believe in it?