Windows 10 S might alarm Valve into boosting SteamOS again

Quoting: rustybroomhandleIf you told people that in order to continue running Windows they have to allow a Microsoft goon to bash their finger in with a hammer once a month, I suspect most people would still continue to run Windows. Except now they'd be typing slower with their bashed in finger.

While I agree completely with this degree of Stockholm syndrome being prevalent, I do think that if anything is going to dethrone Windows and shake people up it's Windows stopping being an open platform. Not everyone cares for sure, but I reckon a lot of people do, people who do any development, any serious gaming, just about anything past most casual usage. So I consider them pushing this lockdown not a potential disaster but a very very fortunate possibility. Nothing will show the naked emperor that is Windows for what it is like losing its vast library of "legacy" software and games. I really wish they do this.

Quoting: liamdawe

Quoting: manus76People already accusing and condemning Microsoft for it might or might not (want to) do in the future. Bravo. Also liamdawe, julespetrikov has been nothing but polite in his comments so far, we don't have to agree with him but how does 'his attitude stink'? Simply because he doesn't agree with our worldview?

I was quoting Jaycee talking about his attitude, not julespetrikov. Replies come after the quote, not before ;)

For a little history Jaycee has had a lot of outburst in our IRC channel (to the point of being banned more than once) for saying some really idiotic anti-Linux stuff.

Sorry Liam, misunderstanding.
Please, others join the discussion, I get my popcorn ready ;-)

Quoting: barottoMicrosoft is trying to lock down Windows since Vista. They'll succeed sooner or later. Thankfully we have alternatives.

You can do a lot with your users today before they start to leave your platform, but MS is so clumsy, they might end up locking people out, instead of in.

Quoting: chancho_zombieI think there's also a quote out there about trading liberty for security...

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin

This one?

Quoting: julespetrikovI don't use Windows for production at all but I'm going to be that guy.

I can hardly think of any cases where SteamOS and Windows 10S could be competitors in any way. SteamOS is not designed to be an everyday-usage Operating System while Windows 10S was and still is nothing more than an embedded and/or mobile Operating System that is a direct competitor to ChromeOS. SteamOS on the other hand is designed to be a multimedia system for living rooms. This comparison is like putting Android in the same basket as BSD-like PS4. They are different.

Microsoft's next step is clearly the Polaris project and it won't be locked to only UWP applications and/or only Microsoft Store applications. That would be quite absurd in any situation. That is going to be the competitor to Desktop Linux, not SteamOS. SteamOS has no competitor, it runs PC games.

Look, I don't like Windows at all. It's a fine OS but less configurable, update system is a mess and is not something I would use for my everyday tasks. But let's not compare apples and oranges here. Windows 10S highly unlikely to affect Valve's vision of Steam Machines. If they have a slightest plan in their minds about SteamOS, it would be about home entertainment of all sorts, not exclusively gaming.

S modes purpose is (at least in part) to shrink future market for third party stores like Steam and GOG. New users, who just purchased a machine with a preinstalled Windows S mode, won't change that default, because the system will tell them it's dangerous. Most of them will never even try Steam or GOG.

Quoting: qptain NemoNothing will show the naked emperor that is Windows for what it is like losing its vast library of "legacy" software and games. I really wish they do this.

Currently, there is a lot of effectively Windows-only software. E.g. GIMP and LibreOffice are great for private and light-weight use, and have use-cases where they are superior, but for professional use compatibility with the customers, colleagues and business partners, and all the other proprietary software is far too important to drop the likes of Photoshop and Powerpoint.

It really comes down to support from the makers of defacto-standard commercial software. As long as those will rather port to UWP than to Linux, Microsoft will only lose niche customers.

I'm pretty sure they are not going to make moves, that remove software developers from the equation, though it is entirely possible for the features needed by these niche audiences to require an upgrade to a "professional" version, were previously "home" would have been fine.

It's just a matter of time. Microsoft will GRADUALLY push Windows 10S wherever they can and when developpers will jump on board, users will get numbed enough to the UWP when they realize that they can do everything they want with the Windows 10S edition. We might even see users requiring Steam to be integrated to the UWP and/or Steam will see a gradual decline at the same time that the UWP will be accepted. Habit is strong in Windows users... At this point, it will become the defacto standard for all sold devices (desktop included). Once this is done, there will be no more upgrade paths. The argument will be something like: "Nobody uses the home edition of Windows anymore so we drop support."

Not saying it is going to happen, but I'm quite sure Microsft's strategy is not far from that. This plan started the day Microsoft released Windows 10S.


Last edited by Mohandevir on 5 February 2018 at 2:28 pm UTC

Windows 10S is actually going away (it's just a hobbled version of Windows 10 Pro) and will be replaced by Windows 10 Core OS which is based on a unified Windows Core across platforms and systems. This should be a much improved version of Windows and it appears positioned to only allow protected apps (ie Windows Store) to run. This will likely happen over time (as did the transition from Windows to Windows NT) but as I said, it will bring benefits to users in terms of resource allocation and protection from viruses and malware. Electron apps will also be relied on to bring some back compatibility though over time developers are expected to move to UWP apps.

For Valve, this will be an even bigger issue for a few reasons, the biggest of which is that this transition makes sense for Microsoft. It's not just a hobbled version of 10 - it's a new Windows Core that provides actual benefits that users will want. Gamers might scream, but the plan will proceed. It seems to me that many of the benefits of Core OS are already available on many Linux flavors, and the push by Microsoft into electron apps (apparently there's an electron version of Microsoft Office coming) may improve Linux compatibility.

Valve *is* threatened, but I think that ultimately Microsoft will make a deal to allow third party stores like Steam as long as they follow certain Windows protocols. While I hope to see a bigger push on SteamOS, the path of least resistance likely lies through Microsoft.

Quoting: webcreatureS modes purpose is (at least in part) to shrink future market for third party stores like Steam and GOG. New users, who just purchased a machine with a preinstalled Windows S mode, won't change that default, because the system will tell them it's dangerous. Most of them will never even try Steam or GOG.

That intention itself is highly fantastic as you can't push a market to shrink by selling incompatible operating systems. Microsoft's intention and the purpose of S Mode is clearly rigging prices and forcing the consumer to pay an additional fee to both vendors and Microsoft so that they could have their favourite platforms and software installed on those machines. Which will eventually force consumer not to consume such devices and Microsoft will only be selling portable and/or specialist devices which is what Windows 10 S was intended for and is widely being used for as of today. Their Surface book whatever editions are competitors to Chromebooks (and Macbooks as they're too closed environments). Microsoft is making money from cloud-based services and hardware around those services.

There's no way in coming years that Microsoft can, in anyway, compete with Steam or GOG on PC. That's out of question. There's no such future unless Microsoft buys Valve. That's also a laughably distant possibility.


Last edited by julespetrikov on 5 February 2018 at 2:54 pm UTC

Quoting: julespetrikov

Quoting: webcreatureS modes purpose is (at least in part) to shrink future market for third party stores like Steam and GOG. New users, who just purchased a machine with a preinstalled Windows S mode, won't change that default, because the system will tell them it's dangerous. Most of them will never even try Steam or GOG.

That intention itself is highly fantastic as you can't push a market to shrink by selling incompatible operating systems. Microsoft's intention and the purpose of S Mode is clearly rigging prices and forcing the consumer to pay an additional fee to both vendors and Microsoft so that they could have their favourite platforms and software installed on those machines. Which will eventually force consumer not to consume such devices and Microsoft will only be selling portable and/or specialist devices which is what Windows 10 S was intended for and is widely being used for as of today. Their Surface book whatever editions are competitors to Chromebooks (and Macbooks as they're too closed environments). Microsoft is making money from cloud-based services and hardware around those services.

There's no way in coming years that Microsoft can, in anyway, compete with Steam or GOG on PC. That's out of question. There's no such future unless Microsoft buys Valve. That's also a laughably distant possibility.

I disagree! When the propriator of the one OS that is pre-installed on almost every sold gaming ready PC, decides to pre configure this OS to a default that makes Steam incompatible, and when the user has to change that configuration against warnings that tell him this step might be dangerous, then a big percentage of mostly new users will not do that. And that will shrink the user-base potential for Steam, not actual numbers of course.
OR.. people decide to use an alternate OS instead, which I'd like very much of course.. Do you believe in it?