Valve has removed the Steam Machine section from Steam

Quoting: 1xokBut the page is still there:

http://store.steampowered.com/sale/steam_machines

Liam doing fake news!?? :O :P

I also get the Hardware tab on my end, just the Steam Machines are missing from the menu. Still seeing the Controller, Link and Vive.


Last edited by Salvatos on 30 March 2018 at 5:04 pm UTC

Quoting: scaine

Quotethe whole Steam Machine idea from Valve never really gained any steam

Really, Liam? Really?? :D

Hey. Don't blow a valve!

:)

Quoting: NeverthelessLinux wasn't ready at the time Valve announced Steam Machines and SteamOS. It stll isn't quite ready. AMD drivers need time, VR needs time, Vulkan still needs time.
I don't know why Valve came out with it prematurely, but I guess something had to be done at that time, to push Linux development and to slow down Microsoft closing down Windows.

My opinion:
[TLDR: Officially SteamOS it's about Steam Machines and now about VR, but I don't think that's the real reason.]

I think the people at Valve have to motivate themselves somehow. To say: Okay, let's work on it for 10 years and then see what we do with it is not very motivating. So they came up with Steam Machines and now it's VR. But with VR you can really count the Linux users on one hand. Economically, VR and Linux do not make any sense. Except Valve wants to sell a complete VR console, which I think is even less likely than Steam Machines. This is an absolute niche. At GDC GabeN praised Valve for now being strong in creating hardware and software at the same time. He compared it to Nintendo. But I don't think that's what that's all about in the end. Valve won't become a second Nintendo for VR. The real plan is a completely different one and much less specific.

Valve is currently building large computing clusters to detect cheaters in CSGO and Dota2 using deep learning. At the moment they still use normal CPUs. The whole thing isn't very big yet either. But they also want to offer it to others as a service. So this will grow and maybe they will use graphics units at some point. Of course, this is officially about anti-cheating, but I think Valve has also other reasons to invest in this technology.

I think that Valve and especially GabeN are aware that the PC era is coming to an end in the next two decades. Maybe much sooner. The cloud is becoming increasingly important. PC and console sales are stagnating, while mobile sales have surpassed them already. PubG and Fortnite switch to the mobiles. Steam machines did not fail because they were bad, but simply because the market is completely saturated. This market is no longer growing.

In the cloud, however, things are very different. Apart from Sonys Now, there are currently no major offers for games. The network must continue to grow. But when the train starts rolling it would be too late to develop something like SteamOS. Such a development takes many years. That's why Valve is working on it now.

Anything else makes little sense. Windows is the absolutely dominant OS for desktop computers and gaming. SteamOS or another Linux system will not change this. GabeN must have known that from the beginning. Steam Machines and VR are just nice stories. The truth will happen in large data centers. And Valve has no interest in running it on Windows and having to give Microsoft billions in license payments for it. For a system they don't even control!


Last edited by 1xok on 30 March 2018 at 5:42 pm UTC

Infrastructure weren't ready.

It is a bit more ready now, but still lots to improve.

Quoting: 1xok

Quoting: NeverthelessLinux wasn't ready at the time Valve announced Steam Machines and SteamOS. It stll isn't quite ready. AMD drivers need time, VR needs time, Vulkan still needs time.
I don't know why Valve came out with it prematurely, but I guess something had to be done at that time, to push Linux development and to slow down Microsoft closing down Windows.

My opinion:
[TLDR: Officially SteamOS it's about Steam Machines and now about VR, but I don't think that's the real reason.]

I think the people at Valve have to motivate themselves somehow. To say: Okay, let's work on it for 10 years and then see what we do with it is not very motivating. So they came up with Steam Machines and now it's VR. But with VR you can really count the Linux users on one hand. Economically, VR and Linux do not make any sense. Except Valve wants to sell a complete VR console, which I think is even less likely than Steam Machines. This is an absolute niche. At GDC GabeN praised Valve for now being strong in creating hardware and software at the same time. He compared it to Nintendo. But I don't think that's what that's all about in the end. Valve won't become a second Nintendo for VR. The real plan is a completely different one and much less specific.

Valve is currently building large computing clusters to detect cheaters in CSGO and Dota2 using deep learning. At the moment they still use normal CPUs. The whole thing isn't very big yet either. But they also want to offer it to others as a service. So this will grow and maybe they will use graphics units at some point. Of course, this is officially about anti-cheating, but I think Valve has also other reasons to invest in this technology.

I think that Valve and especially GabeN are aware that the PC era is coming to an end in the next two decades. Maybe much sooner. The cloud is becoming increasingly important. PC and console sales are stagnating, while mobile sales have surpassed them already. PubG and Fortnite switch to the mobiles. Steam machines did not fail because they were bad, but simply because the market is completely saturated. This market is no longer growing.

In the cloud, however, things are very different. Apart from Sonys Now, there are currently no major offers for games. The network must continue to grow. But when the train starts rolling it would be too late to develop something like SteamOS. Such a development takes many years. That's why Valve is working on it now.

Anything else makes little sense. Windows is the absolutely dominant OS for desktop computers and gaming. SteamOS or another Linux system will not change this. GabeN must have known that from the beginning. Steam Machines and VR are just nice stories. The truth will happen in large data centers. And Valve has no interest in running it on Windows and having to give Microsoft billions in license payments for it. For a system they don't even control!

Yes, there are lots of things going on. There is VR, Khronos's attempt to unify development around Vulkan (with api conversion tools between Vulkan and Metal / DX12), there is Wine, game streaming (which will not work well with VR for a foreseeable timeframe I guess), consoles ... Who can say what the outcome will be?
One thing seems clear to me: Valve is better off with Linux, and we're too!

Quoting: Salvatos

Quoting: 1xokBut the page is still there:

http://store.steampowered.com/sale/steam_machines

Liam doing fake news!?? :O :P

I also get the Hardware tab on my end, just the Steam Machines are missing from the menu. Still seeing the Controller, Link and Vive.

I never said the hardware tab was gone, I said the hardware page was gone. The Steam Machine page also might as well not exist, since the links to it were removed.

Quoting: liamdaweI never said the hardware tab was gone, I said the hardware page was gone. The Steam Machine page also might as well not exist, since the links to it were removed.

Ah, I thought you meant the drop-down was gone.

Quoting: liamdawe

Quoting: Salvatos

Quoting: 1xokBut the page is still there:

http://store.steampowered.com/sale/steam_machines

Liam doing fake news!?? :O :P

I also get the Hardware tab on my end, just the Steam Machines are missing from the menu. Still seeing the Controller, Link and Vive.

I never said the hardware tab was gone, I said the hardware page was gone. The Steam Machine page also might as well not exist, since the links to it were removed.

But it gives us another glimmer of hope. ;)

I just wanted to point out.

Thank you for your report. I wouldn't have noticed about the link.


Last edited by 1xok on 30 March 2018 at 7:03 pm UTC

Whole hardware section?

I need a dozen steam controllers and a backup steam link now!

Don't know if someone mentionned it, but in the case of a new Steam Machine launch, the NUC Hades Canyon could be such an answer. In fact the i7-8809G portion could be used in a much cheaper version of the NUC Hades Canyon:

https://www.pcworld.com/article/3267074/computers/intel-hades-canyon-nuc-nuc8i7hvk-review.html

From the benchmarks, the vega portion should give performances similar to a GTX 1060, but who knows what Valve has in mind? A game streaming service in the pipeline, maybe?

Quoting: 1xok

Quoting: NeverthelessLinux wasn't ready at the time Valve announced Steam Machines and SteamOS. It stll isn't quite ready. AMD drivers need time, VR needs time, Vulkan still needs time.
I don't know why Valve came out with it prematurely, but I guess something had to be done at that time, to push Linux development and to slow down Microsoft closing down Windows.

My opinion:
[TLDR: Officially SteamOS it's about Steam Machines and now about VR, but I don't think that's the real reason.]

I think the people at Valve have to motivate themselves somehow. To say: Okay, let's work on it for 10 years and then see what we do with it is not very motivating. So they came up with Steam Machines and now it's VR. But with VR you can really count the Linux users on one hand. Economically, VR and Linux do not make any sense. Except Valve wants to sell a complete VR console, which I think is even less likely than Steam Machines. This is an absolute niche. At GDC GabeN praised Valve for now being strong in creating hardware and software at the same time. He compared it to Nintendo. But I don't think that's what that's all about in the end. Valve won't become a second Nintendo for VR. The real plan is a completely different one and much less specific.

Valve is currently building large computing clusters to detect cheaters in CSGO and Dota2 using deep learning. At the moment they still use normal CPUs. The whole thing isn't very big yet either. But they also want to offer it to others as a service. So this will grow and maybe they will use graphics units at some point. Of course, this is officially about anti-cheating, but I think Valve has also other reasons to invest in this technology.

I think that Valve and especially GabeN are aware that the PC era is coming to an end in the next two decades. Maybe much sooner. The cloud is becoming increasingly important. PC and console sales are stagnating, while mobile sales have surpassed them already. PubG and Fortnite switch to the mobiles. Steam machines did not fail because they were bad, but simply because the market is completely saturated. This market is no longer growing.

In the cloud, however, things are very different. Apart from Sonys Now, there are currently no major offers for games. The network must continue to grow. But when the train starts rolling it would be too late to develop something like SteamOS. Such a development takes many years. That's why Valve is working on it now.

Anything else makes little sense. Windows is the absolutely dominant OS for desktop computers and gaming. SteamOS or another Linux system will not change this. GabeN must have known that from the beginning. Steam Machines and VR are just nice stories. The truth will happen in large data centers. And Valve has no interest in running it on Windows and having to give Microsoft billions in license payments for it. For a system they don't even control!

That theory would only real if every internet connection on the world was good enough and stable.

Even when you have best service in your hands , there is still slowdowns and ping occurs. And with all that net neutrality thing going on ; Steam only escape from Microsoft to Isp's arms.

So ; i think local gaming won't be obsolete at any time.

Quoting: STiATWhole hardware section?

I need a dozen steam controllers and a backup steam link now!

No, they had a specific Hardware page, which showed off everything: https://web.archive.org/web/20180213141059/http://store.steampowered.com/hardware/

Instead, it now seems to redirect to a basic search page. The Steam Machine link was also removed, all others are still there like the Link and Steam Controller.

I will adjust the article text a bit, as it seems a number of people didn't quite get what I was talking about.

[quote=Leopard][quote=1xok]

Quoting: NeverthelessEven when you have best service in your hands , there is still slowdowns and ping occurs. And with all that net neutrality thing going on ; Steam only escape from Microsoft to Isp's arms.

So ; i think local gaming won't be obsolete at any time.

There was a very similar argument 15 years ago when Steam came up. At the time, no one could have imagined that this would replace normal distribution via DVD. When did you buy your last DVD? Such developments take decades. My average ping time to the Sony Now network is 10ms. I can play Metro 2033 over it without noticing a difference. My input lag over the TV is more than 50ms. It's even higher on smartphones and tablets.

Let's talk again in 15 years. :)

[quote=1xok][quote=Leopard]

Quoting: 1xok

Quoting: NeverthelessEven when you have best service in your hands , there is still slowdowns and ping occurs. And with all that net neutrality thing going on ; Steam only escape from Microsoft to Isp's arms.

So ; i think local gaming won't be obsolete at any time.

There was a very similar argument 15 years ago when Steam came up. At the time, no one could have imagined that this would replace normal distribution via DVD. When did you buy your last DVD? Such developments take decades. My average ping time to the Sony Now network is 10ms. I can play Metro 2033 over it without noticing a difference. My input lag over the TV is more than 50ms. It's even higher on smartphones and tablets.

Let's talk again in 15 years. :)

Sure , let's talk again in 15 years.

DVD thing was entirely different. Why?

Because these are physical copies and they need to be shipped to customers. Via resellers at local shops. That was such a burden.

And also not every market had these games available at shops. With internet , it is one click away.

That was a huge difference.

Steam's connnection requirements for downloads are not frustrating. You can do it with ADSL , fiber or cable alternatives like Comcast. Only important thing is downloading it , not ping or connection stability.

With yours offering ; internet speed ( both upload and download ) , ping , connection health must be at a certain level. For PS Now , which bitrate you are playing at or resolution may i ask?

It probably doing automatic rescaling to your game stream for ensuring some kind of consistent playing. Like Youtube doing with videos.

Pc addicts won't fall into these , after all they're on pc for cranking up effects to the limits and resolution.

You can't guarentee perfect streaming at both net speed wise nor servers end.

Edit: Typo


Last edited by Leopard on 30 March 2018 at 10:09 pm UTC

Quoting: LeopardThat theory would only real if every internet connection on the world was good enough and stable.

Even when you have best service in your hands , there is still slowdowns and ping occurs. And with all that net neutrality thing going on ; Steam only escape from Microsoft to Isp's arms.

So ; i think local gaming won't be obsolete at any time.

I think the future of local gaming are two:

*Local gaming with a subscription fee..
The EA Access model is the perfect example of this...
In this gaming business model, the EA Origin DRM is justified because all the games that You download and play are not yours; you are just paying 5U$D per month for to access them.

*Local gaming DRMFREE.
You buy it once, You own it forever.. or until the media used as storage of the install files is lost or is broken.


About cloud gaming..
Even in this country of farmers, corrupt politicians and football players called Argentina, We have a cloud gaming service..
The Linux client is not available yet, by the way.. but it will..

Quoting: NeverthelessLinux wasn't ready at the time Valve announced Steam Machines and SteamOS. It stll isn't quite ready. AMD drivers need time, VR needs time, Vulkan still needs time.
I don't know why Valve came out with it prematurely, but I guess something had to be done at that time, to push Linux development and to slow down Microsoft closing down Windows. Microsoft is doing so now. They are clearly pushing UWP and Windows S-Mode and show the tendency to want to abandon Win32, which Steam needs to exist on Windows. According to his latest statements, at least G. Newell seems to see it that way. So in my opinion abandoning Linux would be an idiotic thing to do by Valve, and the only question is how they plan to push it, and when they think the time is right!

The main driver for Valve has always been the potential for a future Windows to only allow Microsoft signed applications to run, and for Midcosoft to only sign applications that are sold through, and conform to the policies of, the windows store ( copying the Apple iOS model ).

Almost all of the WIN32 API remains in Windows 10, and will continue to exist. WIN32 and COM are the key, lowest level, building blocks for all of Microsoft's other APIs, including UWP. The real issue isn't technical ( Valve could easily produce a UWP Steam Client ), but a matter of commercial control, as they would not get a signed UWP version of the Steam Client without agreeing to give Microsoft a percentage of any revenue gained through it.

As soon as MS restrict Windows 10+ to running only signed applications from the Windows store, Steam for Windows is toast, probably along with GOG, Humble and anyone else that acts as a store-front for Windows applications.

Quoting: Comandante Ñoñardo

Quoting: LeopardThat theory would only real if every internet connection on the world was good enough and stable.

Even when you have best service in your hands , there is still slowdowns and ping occurs. And with all that net neutrality thing going on ; Steam only escape from Microsoft to Isp's arms.

So ; i think local gaming won't be obsolete at any time.

I think the future of local gaming are two:

*Local gaming with a subscription fee..
The EA Access model is the perfect example of this...
In this gaming business model, the EA Origin DRM is justified because all the games that You download and play are not yours; you are just paying 5U$D per month for to access them.

*Local gaming DRMFREE.
You buy it once, You own it forever.. or until the media used as storage of the install files is lost or is broken.


About cloud gaming..
Even in this country of farmers, corrupt politicians and football players called Argentina, We have a cloud gaming service..
The Linux client is not available yet, by the way.. but it will..

Maybe , but actually i won't depend on such a subscription model. Maybe i don't want to play games of month or maybe i'm an hardcore strategy fan so i don't play anything rather strategy?

About Drm free. Well , maybe that can happen.

About your cloud gaming thesis. Owning a cloud gaming service available doesn't mean it performs good or will perform for everyone. That is only there but with many variables. From available games to payment models or connection problems.

Quoting: etonbears

Quoting: NeverthelessLinux wasn't ready at the time Valve announced Steam Machines and SteamOS. It stll isn't quite ready. AMD drivers need time, VR needs time, Vulkan still needs time.
I don't know why Valve came out with it prematurely, but I guess something had to be done at that time, to push Linux development and to slow down Microsoft closing down Windows. Microsoft is doing so now. They are clearly pushing UWP and Windows S-Mode and show the tendency to want to abandon Win32, which Steam needs to exist on Windows. According to his latest statements, at least G. Newell seems to see it that way. So in my opinion abandoning Linux would be an idiotic thing to do by Valve, and the only question is how they plan to push it, and when they think the time is right!

The main driver for Valve has always been the potential for a future Windows to only allow Microsoft signed applications to run, and for Midcosoft to only sign applications that are sold through, and conform to the policies of, the windows store ( copying the Apple iOS model ).

Almost all of the WIN32 API remains in Windows 10, and will continue to exist. WIN32 and COM are the key, lowest level, building blocks for all of Microsoft's other APIs, including UWP. The real issue isn't technical ( Valve could easily produce a UWP Steam Client ), but a matter of commercial control, as they would not get a signed UWP version of the Steam Client without agreeing to give Microsoft a percentage of any revenue gained through it.

As soon as MS restrict Windows 10+ to running only signed applications from the Windows store, Steam for Windows is toast, probably along with GOG, Humble and anyone else that acts as a store-front for Windows applications.

And that is the critical point. Microsoft won't do that until they have a better store and near title equality in it.

I hope the Tux logo will be back, just that.
About the steam machines... Man, you can not get into the console market without big exclusives titles.

Quoting: Leopard

Quoting: etonbears

Quoting: NeverthelessLinux wasn't ready at the time Valve announced Steam Machines and SteamOS. It stll isn't quite ready. AMD drivers need time, VR needs time, Vulkan still needs time.
I don't know why Valve came out with it prematurely, but I guess something had to be done at that time, to push Linux development and to slow down Microsoft closing down Windows. Microsoft is doing so now. They are clearly pushing UWP and Windows S-Mode and show the tendency to want to abandon Win32, which Steam needs to exist on Windows. According to his latest statements, at least G. Newell seems to see it that way. So in my opinion abandoning Linux would be an idiotic thing to do by Valve, and the only question is how they plan to push it, and when they think the time is right!

The main driver for Valve has always been the potential for a future Windows to only allow Microsoft signed applications to run, and for Midcosoft to only sign applications that are sold through, and conform to the policies of, the windows store ( copying the Apple iOS model ).

Almost all of the WIN32 API remains in Windows 10, and will continue to exist. WIN32 and COM are the key, lowest level, building blocks for all of Microsoft's other APIs, including UWP. The real issue isn't technical ( Valve could easily produce a UWP Steam Client ), but a matter of commercial control, as they would not get a signed UWP version of the Steam Client without agreeing to give Microsoft a percentage of any revenue gained through it.

As soon as MS restrict Windows 10+ to running only signed applications from the Windows store, Steam for Windows is toast, probably along with GOG, Humble and anyone else that acts as a store-front for Windows applications.

And that is the critical point. Microsoft won't do that until they have a better store and near title equality in it.

They have most games already, since their strategy seems to be to blur the distinction between developing for PC or XBox through common APIs ( develop for XBox, and recompile to run under UWP ). They are very good at providing the tools developers need to support their platforms, and always have been.

Windows 10 S(tupid) mode is testing the waters for a lock-out; it will come when MS feel it will be largely accepted, I guess. I'm sure there will be legal challenges, but that will be too slow for companies put out of business.