Valve has removed the Steam Machine section from Steam

Quoting: etonbears

Quoting: NeverthelessLinux wasn't ready at the time Valve announced Steam Machines and SteamOS. It stll isn't quite ready. AMD drivers need time, VR needs time, Vulkan still needs time.
I don't know why Valve came out with it prematurely, but I guess something had to be done at that time, to push Linux development and to slow down Microsoft closing down Windows. Microsoft is doing so now. They are clearly pushing UWP and Windows S-Mode and show the tendency to want to abandon Win32, which Steam needs to exist on Windows. According to his latest statements, at least G. Newell seems to see it that way. So in my opinion abandoning Linux would be an idiotic thing to do by Valve, and the only question is how they plan to push it, and when they think the time is right!

The main driver for Valve has always been the potential for a future Windows to only allow Microsoft signed applications to run, and for Midcosoft to only sign applications that are sold through, and conform to the policies of, the windows store ( copying the Apple iOS model ).

Almost all of the WIN32 API remains in Windows 10, and will continue to exist. WIN32 and COM are the key, lowest level, building blocks for all of Microsoft's other APIs, including UWP. The real issue isn't technical ( Valve could easily produce a UWP Steam Client ), but a matter of commercial control, as they would not get a signed UWP version of the Steam Client without agreeing to give Microsoft a percentage of any revenue gained through it.

As soon as MS restrict Windows 10+ to running only signed applications from the Windows store, Steam for Windows is toast, probably along with GOG, Humble and anyone else that acts as a store-front for Windows applications.

Right! At first it will be "just" S-Mode. Meaning you have to deactivate it to be able to play your Steam, GOG, homebrew games. Windows gamers with game libraries at Steam / GOG / elsewhere will do that. New users will not so easily, because they will be told it's unsafe. That way Microsoft won't have to force people away from Steam. They just cut new user supply to Steam and others.
That's what S-Mode is designed for in my opinion. If Microsoft had only safety in Mind they could have designed a sandbox mode for Win32.

I'm not surprise that Steam Machine may discontinued. Here is very simple question, who is the Valve's target customers for Steam Machine?
- Streamer (legally or not)? Kodi box is cheaper.

- PC gamers? Most of them build their own rig; more powerful and more value for money.

- Console gamers? Exclusive (or timed exclusive) is a key here. I'm remember GoL readers totally disagree with me when I suggest CDPR should sell their game on GOG exclusively.

- "PC as truck" (like late Steve Jobs comment about post-pc era.)? There are more old-school advanced "truck" called laptop.

- People who want try Linux?

- Steam Machine as "benchmark standard device" (like iPhone, one spec hardware) for developers? It requires locking- down/out the device. The problem is Linux is GPL-open. (And that's why Google currently experimenting Fuchsia)

Quoting: tonRI'm not surprise that Steam Machine may discontinued. Here is very simple question, who is the Valve's target customers for Steam Machine?
- Streamer (legally or not)? Kodi box is cheaper.

- PC gamers? Most of them build their own rig; more powerful and more value for money.

- Console gamers? Exclusive (or timed exclusive) is a key here. I'm remember GoL readers totally disagree with me when I suggest CDPR should sell their game on GOG exclusively.

- "PC as truck" (like late Steve Jobs comment about post-pc era.)? There are more old-school advanced "truck" called laptop.

- People who want try Linux?

- Steam Machine as "benchmark standard device" (like iPhone, one spec hardware) for developers? It requires locking- down/out the device. The problem is Linux is GPL-open. (And that's why Google currently experimenting Fuchsia)

I don't think it ever was a device species at all. I don't know what Valve thought of it when they released it, but for me it was a Linux PC with a controller for the living room. That concept is not dead, nor are the Steam Machines sold. Nothing has failed here, because nothing gets abandoned. Owners of a Steam Machine still have got a Linux PC for the living room and 4000+ games to play.

Quoting: NeverthelessI don't think it ever was a device species at all. I don't know what Valve thought of it when they released it, but for me it was a Linux PC with a controller for the living room. That concept is not dead, nor are the Steam Machines sold. Nothing has failed here, because nothing gets abandoned. Owners of a Steam Machine still have got a Linux PC for the living room and 4000+ games to play.

That's my question. What was/is in Valve's people mind when they launched Steam Machine? To promoted Linux? For fun?

I never said failed. Yes, Valve is still making money, Steam Machine or not, but every businesses in this world wanted to maximizing profit to even every single cent. So I'm very curious about the reason of Steam Machine existance.

Quoting: tonR

Quoting: NeverthelessI don't think it ever was a device species at all. I don't know what Valve thought of it when they released it, but for me it was a Linux PC with a controller for the living room. That concept is not dead, nor are the Steam Machines sold. Nothing has failed here, because nothing gets abandoned. Owners of a Steam Machine still have got a Linux PC for the living room and 4000+ games to play.

That's my question. What was/is in Valve's people mind when they launched Steam Machine? To promoted Linux? For fun?

I never said failed. Yes, Valve is still making money, Steam Machine or not, but every businesses in this world wanted to maximizing profit to even every single cent. So I'm very curious about the reason of Steam Machine existance.

No you didn't say that! I was not suggesting you did! And you're right, it's an interesting question. Maybe it was tactics, maybe it was bringing an idea to life, one that wouldn't be harmed even if its (this) implementation was not successful. I don't know..

The idea never took off because the steam machine prices was ridiculous for a decent machine. When the established consoles was cheaper than the steam machines, it was doomed to fail. Still hoping Valve are secretly making there own machine using all AMD components.

Quoting: KimyrielleOn the positive end: While a few years ago it seemed that the PC vs consoles war would eventually be won by consoles, this is no longer the case.

actually that is bad for us, in the past, valve could disguise an pc as an console to put linux in the market.
now the gamers will play on "pc" only and by pc, they mean windows

Quoting: KnucksThe idea never took off because the steam machine prices was ridiculous for a decent machine. When the established consoles was cheaper than the steam machines, it was doomed to fail. Still hoping Valve are secretly making there own machine using all AMD components.

Not the only reason, by far. There was a lack of polish and features (multimedia stuff etc) compared to other consoles. There was not nearly enough marketing push. With the state of drivers and dependence on OpenGL, games tended to be slower.
The price, polish & features, and marketing are under Valve's control if it makes its own. The graphics issues are improving at good speed but are still the big question mark frankly--and it's not just graphics drivers and Vulkan. What's the situation with Wayland?

"I think that Valve and especially GabeN are aware that the PC era is coming to an end in the next two decades. Maybe much sooner. "
nope, that was what the media thought during the tablet era, then people realized that tablets werent as usefull as they thought, so the tablet market is almost dead now, and pcs are growing again.

" PC and console sales are stagnating, "
consoles are, pc get replaced less often because the software arent using all the hardware capabilities as in the past.


" As soon as MS restrict Windows 10+ to running only signed applications"
why would they do that?
security? no one care about that otherwise they would use linux.
the ones who care use anti virus and think they are safe.

to make more profit?
they dont need to shoot then selfes in the foot, even if they are dumb enough to try that, their stake holders arent that dumb.

MS will not shoot then selfes in the foot, if that is our only hope, we should just give up, not gonna happen.


" *Local gaming DRMFREE.
You buy it once, You own it forever.. or until the media used as storage of the install files is lost or is broken."
lol what? gog already distribute games with local gaming drm free.
you can do as many downloads of it as you need, and as many backup copies as well, since it is... DRM FREE.
when you move to a new hardware you just need to grab your copies with you.


"Windows 10 S(tupid) mode is testing the waters for a lock-out; "
nope it was an atempt to compete with the price of chromebooks.


"New users will not so easily, because they will be told it's unsafe."
new users are told how to use their computer by old users, so they arent so stupid.
people pirated a lot of things in the past, they didnt thought "it is unsafe and illegal, i shouldnt do that" they thought "my friends did the same and nothing bad has happened so far".
people will not fall by that MS bait unless they live in an cave.


" Owners of a Steam Machine still have got a Linux PC for the living room and 4000+ games to play. "
except that if you go to steam foruns you will see that many of then instaled windows on it

I mean, you just reread the article I wrote in 2016 - essentially nothing's changed. They keep improving the backend, but SteamOS as a product is stagnant.

Quoting: elmapulyou can do as many downloads of it as you need, and as many backup copies as well, since it is... DRM FREE.
when you move to a new hardware you just need to grab your copies with you.

I know that!!
But You don't get my point... What happen if GOG close like Desura?..
In this scenario, Your games are yours as long as You have backup copies... (I have a DRMFREE version of Dark Messiah of Might & Magic because of this ^_^)

What happen if all your external drives where You have your backup copies are stolen or destroyed by a fire or lost??..

I'm trying to cover all possible bad scenarios.

All of speculations and negative vibes are pointless without any solution/suggestion. So, let me give one suggestion and reasons if Valve want next Steam Machine to be success.

Nintendo Switch/GPD Win - style console.

The reason is while laptop is great portable PC, it must put on flat surface or top of your lap (hence the word laptop :D ). Switch (tablet) and GPD Win (Handheld) on the another hand are truly light; portable; for Switch, ability to switching between console and tablet without much hassle; and for GPD Win, not compromising basic functional of standard PC (except for performance).

If Valve can make best of both Switch and GPD Win as reality with better performance, reasonable price (doesn't mean cheap, just the price appropriate to performance) and removable battery (MUST! I HATE NON-REMOVABLE BATTERIES!!); well, for GoL PC info, I will proudly state my "Main gaming machine" is handheld.

p/s RANT: It is hard to find great performance + USB Type-C smartphones with removable battery. The only options are both LG G5 & V20 (Android) and Microkia/Nokiasoft Lumia 950 series (obviously Windows). And all these smartphones' price, both new and secondhand models, being jacking up this year. Even Lumia. Damn!

EDIT: Arghh.. too much minor spelling/grammar mistakes. I'm leaving it as-is.


Last edited by tonR on 31 March 2018 at 8:56 pm UTC

SteamBOX's incoming.

Game developers supporting linux (although very important especially for people like us) was never the issue for the steam machines failure imo.

The problem was the decentralized movement... there was no definition on what a steam machine was and what it should do and how much it should cost.

Most manufacturers saw it as an exploit to sell their stuff at a more expensive price-tag to the enthusiasts....

There was not a single steam machine (that I remember) that had performance which could not be rivaled by a custom build for much cheaper.

The main success would have been if manufactures/partners really aimed to bring a console priced machine that is not console locked aka a PC at a console price that runs an open versatile OS (or is capable to run more than one OS) and play major games with a decent performance...

And that never happened.... the machines that actually could play AAA games @ 1080p 60fps were ridiculously overprices as if they were some sort of rare gems or something... and then there were some more affordable machines that only were capable to play 2D toilet games that your cellphone manages to play equally well... they totally miss-interpreted the market...

Quoting: gustavoyaraujoI hope the Tux logo will be back, just that.
About the steam machines... Man, you can not get into the console market without big exclusives titles.

You know what the funny thing about that statement is?

The Nintendo Switch at this point probably has about as many big games as Linux does. The only exclusives it has are basically the ones Nintendo has made, with few exceptions. But it seems to be doing quite well.

But on the other hand of that, the only reason I wanted the Switch is because the form factor is AWESOME! Being able to pluck it off the dock and continue playing is such a great feature.

I'd laugh if this was in anticipation of the Atari VCS. Though I think Atari should just partner with Valve...

Quoting: EMO GANGSTERwill valve still support steamos or do you think it will kill support for it in the distant future

I seriously doubt that valve will, since the only reason for creating SteamOS was as an alternative OS for the steam machines but maybe the community will take over I dont know how proprietary steamOS is and if vavle needs/wants to make the proprietary parts of it opensource but it seems like a plausible scenario.

Quoting: papajo

Quoting: EMO GANGSTERwill valve still support steamos or do you think it will kill support for it in the distant future

I seriously doubt that valve will, since the only reason for creating SteamOS was as an alternative OS for the steam machines but maybe the community will take over I dont know how proprietary steamOS is and if vavle needs/wants to make the proprietary parts of it opensource but it seems like a plausible scenario.

SteamOS is Debian stable with proprietary drivers and Steam client. There's a custom compositor I think, but that's it. They left it open for a reason.
It's interesting that Atari also talks about the openness of their Linux OS for the VCS device, which is said to be capable of running Steam and GOG games. I wonder if games from the Atari store will run on any Linux PC with controller.
I also wonder if Atari could include better hardware into the device, maybe with an investment by Valve...
Ah.. speculations...

Quoting: tonRI'm not surprise that Steam Machine may discontinued. Here is very simple question, who is the Valve's target customers for Steam Machine?
- Streamer (legally or not)? Kodi box is cheaper.

- PC gamers? Most of them build their own rig; more powerful and more value for money.

- Console gamers? Exclusive (or timed exclusive) is a key here. I'm remember GoL readers totally disagree with me when I suggest CDPR should sell their game on GOG exclusively.

- "PC as truck" (like late Steve Jobs comment about post-pc era.)? There are more old-school advanced "truck" called laptop.

- People who want try Linux?

- Steam Machine as "benchmark standard device" (like iPhone, one spec hardware) for developers? It requires locking- down/out the device. The problem is Linux is GPL-open. (And that's why Google currently experimenting Fuchsia)

Yes, I am sure you are right about cutting new supply. It will certainly work with many new computer users.

Just to reiterate, UWP does not affect the majority of WIN32 and COM. It's more like the move from X servers to Wayland plus signed binaries, as I understand it.

Sadly this may be the beginning of the end. Valve may have decided to lower the pressure and end support of Linux (starting with hardware) due to low sales before they blow a valve.

After all, the Linux marketshare on Steam has dropped into the 0.3% range.

Think of it this way, if you were a betting women and you were told you had a 0.3% chance of winning the bet, would you put all your money down on that bet? Probably not.

Remember, Valves Linux Steam Marketshare is losing steam these days and is not gaining any pressure which from a business perspective is bad.

This sucks, but could be true.