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PayPalIt seems Valve are quite serious about getting back into making games, as Campo Santo the developer of Firewatch has joined them.
Writing on their official website in a post, the team from Campo Santo confirmed that the news is true. They said they found that people at Valve share the same values that they do, so it became an "obvious match". Expanding on that, they said this:
We had a series of long conversations with the people at Valve and everyone shared the satisfaction we take in working with people whose talents dwarf our own to make things we never thought possible. Both sides spoke about our values and how, when you get right down to it, we, as human beings, are hard-limited by the time we have left when it comes to making the things we care about and believe in. They asked us if we’d all be interested in coming up to Bellevue and doing that there and we said yes.
They confirmed that their next game, In the Valley of Gods, is still being made and so it's now a Valve game.
Personally, I think it's great that Valve are bringing in some obviously talented folk to make games. Valve have a lot of resources and contacts that can help for sure. It should also mean they have good Linux support, since Valve are still committed to Linux gaming.
Since it will now be a Valve game, it will be interesting to see if In the Valley of Gods will make it to GOG. I wouldn't expect it to now, but maybe Valve will surprise us there.
Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
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Doc Angelo Apr 24, 2018
Quoting: tuubiI'm not very familiar with Firewatch (it's still on my wishlist and I'm good at avoiding spoilers), but to me it seems Valve is gathering narrative design talent for their upcoming games.
I didn't like Firewatch very much for the story and that one character, but the game was made really well. Very good execution of new ideas. The gameplay was really hitting my sweet spot. I can't wait what games Valve will do in the future.
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Quoting: Doc AngeloQuoting: tuubiI'm not very familiar with Firewatch (it's still on my wishlist and I'm good at avoiding spoilers), but to me it seems Valve is gathering narrative design talent for their upcoming games.
I didn't like Firewatch very much for the story and that one character, but the game was made really well. Very good execution of new ideas. The gameplay was really hitting my sweet spot. I can't wait what games Valve will do in the future.
I'd be very disappointed if a Valve game, especially if it's a Portal game, didn't have a healthy dose of their signature humour.
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Quoting: ShmerlNo, it leaves lots of clear options for DRM-free backup. Just no options which don't arguably violate Steam's TOS. But there is no technical, digital, measure blocking one from doing backups in unapproved ways. Thus, doing such backups does not circumvent any digital scheme. Thus, it is not factually DRM and doing the backups does not trigger legal penalties for circumventing DRM so it is not legalistically DRM either. This is practically syllogistic logic here.Quoting: MblackwellThe GOG ToS specifies that they have a right to revoke your access to their services for any large number of reasons. How will you download your games then?
The idea is that you download something after you buy it, and you legally can back it up (as long as you legally purchased it). As far as I understand Steam TOS, it doesn't say you can legally back up anything in DRM-free fashion even if you legally purchased it. They explicitly say, that the automatic installation is needed (I understand it as referring to their client). And their official back up tool in their client is DRMed as we established above. This leaves no clear option for DRM-free backup.
I am getting to the point where I think you just want to keep calling it "DRM" because "Valve have some bad or at least ambiguous stuff in their TOS which they could theoretically 'get' you with if they turned out to want to" just doesn't sound nearly as dramatic.
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Quoting: Purple Library GuyNo, it leaves lots of clear options for DRM-free backup. Just no options which don't arguably violate Steam's TOS.
That's out of scope. You can also go ahead and break various DRM, producing DRM-free backup. Personally I don't have a problem with people breaking DRM for their personal use (DRM in fact is aimed to forbid otherwise completely legal fair use), but we aren't talking about that.
Quoting: Purple Library GuyThus, it is not factually DRM and doing the backups does not trigger legal penalties for circumventing DRM so it is not legalistically DRM either.
I wouldn't be so sure. The client itself can be viewed as an installation "measure", and skirting its use can be viewed as "circumventing" it. DMCA-1201 abusers come up with even weirder ways to mess things up for those unfortunate who happen to be subjects to some DRM schemes.
I call it DRM, because they don't provide legal ways to make DRM-free backups. That's about it.
Last edited by Shmerl on 24 April 2018 at 6:07 pm UTC
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Quoting: ShmerlIndeed it is, but not in the context of this argument. Your original comment claimed that the Steam client is DRM, not that Steam's Terms of Service are harsh. I actually agree that they are, and that making copies of DRM-free Steam games is a legal grey area compared to games bought from the likes of GoG. But we're not arguing about rights; we're arguing about the management of rights. If a developer decides not to include Steamworks DRM, the client doesn't enforce the TOS - i.e., manage rights - in any way.Quoting: DuncOkay, but as others have pointed out above, all vendors have Terms of Service.Yes, and it's important what those terms are.
It's similar to downloading old '80s games from the internet. Few (if any) jurisdictions recognise the concept of “abandonware” in law; every game ever sold is still, legally, under copyright. You have no right to download them. But it's practically possible, since they aren't encumbered by DRM. You're (arguably) breaking the law, but you can do it. Same with Steam. Copying Steam games that don't use Steamworks DRM may or may not break the TOS, but it's possible. If the client itself was DRM, it simply wouldn't be.
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Quoting: ShmerlThe client itself can be viewed as an installation "measure", and skirting its use can be viewed as "circumventing" it.Okay, let's say you're in court on a DMCA charge. The prosecution alleges that you circumvented measures intended to prevent copying and redistribution. What, exactly, did you have to do that you wouldn't have done with any other file anywhere else on your computer? Nothing. You copied some files. There are no “measures”.
Which is why the actual Steamworks DRM exists. If Valve thought that argument would hold any water at all, why did they go to the bother and expense of creating a cryptographic DRM system for Steam?
Edit: I actually managed to spell DMCA wrong. :S:
Last edited by Dunc on 24 April 2018 at 9:45 pm UTC
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Quoting: DuncBut we're not arguing about rights; we're arguing about the management of rights.
Those are tied together. Same as anti-circumvention garbage is tied to it. If that wasn't clear enough, DRM-free above obviously meant legal DRM-free when referring to stores, not simply ability to remove DRM and get DRM-free result, or get it through violating the TOS.
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Quoting: DuncNothing. You copied some files. There are no “measures”.
Accessing the files outside the client can be viewed as circumventing in this case. You don't buy files through Steam, so it can be viewed that you aren't supposed to access them. But again, I'm not really interested in debating this topic since it changes nothing. You still can't legally back things up in DRM-free fashion. Ergo, Steam is not DRM-free.
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Quoting: Guestwhat was the story about again?I don't remember much, but must have been something about "DRM". Valve acquiring Digital Rights to Manage Campo Santo?
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Mblackwell Apr 26, 2018
Search for the words "backup" and "copy" in the Steam TOS and be amazed.
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