Bum Simulator will simulate life as a homeless person

Quoting: Doc Angelo

Quoting: EikeLanguage is not something happening to us, it's something made by us. I feel (strongly), we shouldn't perpetuate the connotation of "doing good" and something bad. (There's something similar in German with "Gutmensch" (eng: "good human".))

I hate the term "Gutmensch". It just feels wrong to paint this rather straightforward term in a bad light. "Scheingutmensch" would be more fitting.

I can understand the definition of TheSHEEEP regarding "do-gooder" and where this is coming from. I know way too many people who tell about doing good all the time, but rarely put action behind their words. I also know people who are phrasing their views in over the top language, something like "all foreigners are nice and lovely!". Some people just love to appear as (purportedly) political correct as possible. That's a problem. But it's also a problem that many people who actually do something good - because they thought about it and came to the conclusion that they want to do this - sound just the same at first glance.

I really think "Scheingutmensch" in German and something like "pseu-do-gooder" would be more fitting and not as misleading.

I would go for "hypocrite", or in German "scheinheilig".

Just to be sure: From what I read here I'm pretty certain that Eike does not fall into the category of being hypocrite/"scheinheilig" ;)


Last edited by jens on 12 May 2018 at 5:08 pm UTC

Quoting: jens

Quoting: Doc AngeloI really think "Scheingutmensch" in German and something like "pseu-do-gooder" would be more fitting and not as misleading.

I would go for "hypocrite", or in German "scheinheilig".

That is a hypocrite, yes.
But: What I say is that there is a difference between hypocrites (people who say A and do B) and do-gooders (people who say A, do A, claim that A is good, but A is actually a bad thing once you think about it more deeply).
I can only point at my own example a page ago.

For example, if I started proclaiming that everyone should start defending the poor and downtrodden Panterra people (imaginary name), I would be a hypocrite.
Because I do not truly believe in that, but know that people like it when someone proclaims that.

If I actually did go out of my way to defend the poor and downtrodden Panterra people, and believe I am doing good, I would be a do-gooder.
Because that would only lead to the Panterra people never learning to defend themselves and always require someone to do it for them, it would actually be a bad result.


Last edited by TheSHEEEP on 12 May 2018 at 5:26 pm UTC

Quoting: TheSHEEEPBut: What I say is that there is a difference between hypocrites (people who say A and do B) and do-gooders (people who say A, do A, claim that A is good, but A is actually a bad thing once you think about it more deeply).

So, a try-do-gooder?

Quoting: Eike

Quoting: TheSHEEEPBut: What I say is that there is a difference between hypocrites (people who say A and do B) and do-gooders (people who say A, do A, claim that A is good, but A is actually a bad thing once you think about it more deeply).

So, a try-do-gooder?

Kinda, if you want. It's kind of a mouthful, though...
Edited my post with an example.


Last edited by TheSHEEEP on 12 May 2018 at 5:27 pm UTC

Quoting: Eike

Quoting: TheSHEEEPBut: What I say is that there is a difference between hypocrites (people who say A and do B) and do-gooders (people who say A, do A, claim that A is good, but A is actually a bad thing once you think about it more deeply).

So, a try-do-gooder?

A naive hypocrite then? :)


Last edited by jens on 12 May 2018 at 6:02 pm UTC

Quoting: TheSHEEEPIf I actually did go out of my way to defend the poor and downtrodden Panterra people, and believe I am doing good, I would be a do-gooder.
Because that would only lead to the Panterra people never learning to defend themselves and always require someone to do it for them, it would actually be a bad result.

And what if those poor and downtrodden Panterra people actually need help to achieve basic necessities that would allow them to "learn"? I know the oft-repeated adage that "what does not kill you makes you stronger", but sometimes what doesn't kill you very effectively keeps you from getting up and helping yourself. Or ends up killing off most of your community, delaying recovery and learning by generations.

Someone struggling to scrounge up basic sustenance or to protect their children from preventable diseases isn't in a position to "defend themselves". This is another example of black-and-white thinking from people with a superiority complex. We are talking about human beings here.

Call me whatever you want, but I firmly believe that if most of us were just a tiny bit less selfish, many of the world's problems would be trivial to solve. And this goes for every nation and every creed of people equally. It's perfectly natural to concentrate on your own needs and those of your own community, but the world has changed too fast for us to rely on instinct alone.

Quoting: tuubi

Quoting: TheSHEEEPIf I actually did go out of my way to defend the poor and downtrodden Panterra people, and believe I am doing good, I would be a do-gooder.
Because that would only lead to the Panterra people never learning to defend themselves and always require someone to do it for them, it would actually be a bad result.

And what if those poor and downtrodden Panterra people actually need help to achieve basic necessities that would allow them to "learn"? I know the oft-repeated adage that "what does not kill you makes you stronger", but sometimes what doesn't kill you very effectively keeps you from getting up and helping yourself. Or ends up killing off most of your community, delaying recovery and learning by generations.

Obviously (or not...) helping them to learn includes protecting them for the time being.
But only for so long.

If the Panterra people after long years of trying to teach them turn out simply incapable of self-defence, there is no reason to further waste your resources on them.

I'm not per se against defending the weak, but it must come with the goal of making them strong, too, so that you gain an ally in the end instead of just another bottomless hole to take care of.


Last edited by TheSHEEEP on 12 May 2018 at 6:53 pm UTC

Quoting: TheSHEEEPIf the Panterra people after long years of trying to teach them turn out simply incapable of self-defence, there is no reason to further waste your resources on them.

Oh, if this was about literal defence (the military kind) and not something you'd associate with the kinds of people you call do-gooders, we actually agree. Sending soldiers and weapons into a conflict zone has rarely had a lasting positive effect.

Quoting: TheSHEEEPFor example, if I started proclaiming that everyone should start defending the poor and downtrodden Panterra people (imaginary name), I would be a hypocrite.
Because I do not truly believe in that, but know that people like it when someone proclaims that.

If I actually did go out of my way to defend the poor and downtrodden Panterra people, and believe I am doing good, I would be a do-gooder.
Because that would only lead to the Panterra people never learning to defend themselves and always require someone to do it for them, it would actually be a bad result.

That means that only those people are do-gooders that are doing things that you wouldn't do. Or people who have views you don't share. You label them do-gooders as soon as you disagree with their views or the reasoning behind their actions. If I would do the same, you would be a do-gooder from my perspective.

It really just boils down to your disagreement with their views and actions. You don't like what they say and do, and you show your dislike by calling those people names. In my opinion, that's neither useful nor helpful for you or for them.


Last edited by Doc Angelo on 12 May 2018 at 7:58 pm UTC

Yawn, looks so stupid. The real Urban Survival Sim is Urban Pirate [itch] [steam] folks, go get it. Much nicer graphix and music too!