DXVK for Direct3D 11 over Vulkan in Wine has a new 0.60 release

Quoting: nox

Quoting: MohandevirNot much. But believe me, my experience with multiple newcomers to Linux showed me that it doesn't take much to make them drop. From the start, the UI needs adaptation and then apps that are replaced by new ones (even if they are more performant)... Then you add a tool that doesn't work the same way as on "the other OS"... You get a: "I quit" pretty fast.

Edit: In fact my most successfull conversion experience was with my 74 years old father... He had no Windows background. Lol!

Don't think many can argue against this, but this goes no matter what. Even Linux people giving a different DE a go can end up with the same reaction. People for the most part don't like change, and that's something that will always be an issue no matter how well wine, and even native games, works.

That is why the transition has to be as smooth as possible if the goal is to bring new users to Linux. We have to keep in mind that Windows users are used to being taken charge of by their usual OS, telling them what to do and what they have to like. :)


Last edited by Mohandevir on 22 June 2018 at 4:02 pm UTC

Quoting: Shmerl

Quoting: MohandevirAs long as there is an entity in charge of maintaining the build, just like Feral does, personnally, I'm fine with that.

Why do you need some entity to tell you "it's playable" if it's already playable without any entity?-) But in essence what's good is attention of developers to Linux market in general, that's about it. Other than that, you don't need any entities like Feral if you already can play the game. Especially if they would limit you in some way.

Well, to me personally it makes sense to pay only for games that officially support Linux, wine-wrapped, native, black magic or whatever. The entity isn't there to tell you it's playable, it's there to make accountably sure it's playable and stays that way for reasonable amount of time (everything can break after support ends, pure Windows games included, because of drivers, new OS version, etc).

I follow motto that you vote with your money. Buying Windows games, even if they work well in Wine, seems strange to me... you are not their demographics, not a customer either, why would you buy it? That way nothing will ever change. Only thing that counts is the money, and giving them away for free does not seem particularly smart.

Quoting: SolitaryThe entity isn't there to tell you it's playable

Well, Feral for example are there to tell you you can't buy the game in other stores, even though Windows versions can be available there. That's telling you where to buy it and is a limitation set by the middleman. I.e. their porting work is attached to that limitation. In contrast Wine limits nothing, you can apply it to any game without someone telling you, that you shouldn't do it because you bought it in the "wrong" store. That was the main point I was making. For the very same reason, I'm playing Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II in Wine, and not using Aspyr's Linux port, since it's Steam only. And I'm glad Wine enables that option.

I agree with your idea in general though, that it's preferable to support developers who are making Linux games.


Last edited by Shmerl on 22 June 2018 at 5:50 pm UTC

Quoting: Patola

Quoting: Mohandevir

Quoting: Shmerl

Quoting: MohandevirMore than that, an update on an unsuported game may totally break wine support at any moment. Want non-techy users to deal with that?

Sure, but so can the game break, after porters aren't supporting it anymore. So what has higher chances to last longer? I'd bet on the FOSS option in such case. It doens't mean I propose to always use Wine instead of native rewrites, but simply point out that Wine makes it very viable without porters involved already.

You are right. Wine makes it viable. This is where it ends. It will never show up on GoG store, Steam and the likes, in this state. Like it or not, in 2018, this is the name of the game, unless your goal is to keep Linux an elitists platform that only tech-savy people use. If that is your point of view, fine, but this discussion is pointless; we have diverging goals, from the start.

What are you talking about? There are already a lot of games which are wine-wrapped. From the top of my head I can recall at least three that I own -- Two Worlds (GOG), Enclave and Limbo (Steam). I only found out about Limbo after having finished it. In fact, I think the majority of old windows games in GOG that run on Linux are not ports but wine-wrapped versions.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. GoG is taking the responsability of the wine wrapped game and I'm totally fine with that. Where did I mentionned it didn't already exist? Your quotes are in the wrong context.

My original post:

Quoting: MohandevirLooking at it the other way... If (and there is a lot of them), as an example, GoG decides to use DXVK + Wine, wraps The Witcher 3 with home made hacks, get good performances out of it and put it's official support stamp on it... Is it that bad? As long as there is an entity in charge of maintaining the build, just like Feral does, personnally, I'm fine with that.

Edit: Your quotes are referring to the part when I'm talking about games where the user has to manage wine.


Last edited by Mohandevir on 22 June 2018 at 7:28 pm UTC

Quoting: Solitary

Quoting: Shmerl

Quoting: MohandevirAs long as there is an entity in charge of maintaining the build, just like Feral does, personnally, I'm fine with that.

Why do you need some entity to tell you "it's playable" if it's already playable without any entity?-) But in essence what's good is attention of developers to Linux market in general, that's about it. Other than that, you don't need any entities like Feral if you already can play the game. Especially if they would limit you in some way.

Well, to me personally it makes sense to pay only for games that officially support Linux, wine-wrapped, native, black magic or whatever. The entity isn't there to tell you it's playable, it's there to make accountably sure it's playable and stays that way for reasonable amount of time (everything can break after support ends, pure Windows games included, because of drivers, new OS version, etc).

I follow motto that you vote with your money. Buying Windows games, even if they work well in Wine, seems strange to me... you are not their demographics, not a customer either, why would you buy it? That way nothing will ever change. Only thing that counts is the money, and giving them away for free does not seem particularly smart.

Yep, that's why I want the "man in the middle", to make sure that my purchase counts as a Linux sell. I wouldn't mind the internal implementation at all.


Last edited by jens on 22 June 2018 at 7:48 pm UTC

Quoting: Sputnik_tr_02

Quoting: TheSHEEEP396.24.02 for NVIDIA?
Oof... the one currently in the packages is 390.48.
Trying to install more recent drivers from NVidias website has always resulted in completely messing up the graphics drivers - aka nothing works anymore until you repair the X configuration files, etc. Extremely bothersome, so I've stopped using anything that's not in the official packages.

I am using this ppa, never had issues with it on my system, you may want to try.

Thanks, but that is what I have already, and the latest one available on that (at least for Ubuntu 18.04) is 390.

Edit:
Nevermind that, it's late and I am blind. 396 is indeed there.


Last edited by TheSHEEEP on 22 June 2018 at 7:56 pm UTC

Quoting: TheSHEEEP

Quoting: Sputnik_tr_02

Quoting: TheSHEEEP396.24.02 for NVIDIA?
Oof... the one currently in the packages is 390.48.
Trying to install more recent drivers from NVidias website has always resulted in completely messing up the graphics drivers - aka nothing works anymore until you repair the X configuration files, etc. Extremely bothersome, so I've stopped using anything that's not in the official packages.

I am using this ppa, never had issues with it on my system, you may want to try.

Thanks, but that is what I have already, and the latest one available on that (at least for Ubuntu 18.04) is 390.

Check again. The package is clearly visible in the published packages list on the linked page. Maybe you were tripped up by the fact that they dropped the nvidia-396 naming scheme and you'll want to install nvidia-driver-396 instead?

Quoting: jensYep, that's why I want the "man in the middle", to make sure that my purchase counts as a Linux sell.

Sometimes things are clear in your head, but you fail to make it apparent on the paper... Realized I didn't mentionned that part anywhere. My bad! I was two or three shots further than that, but yeah that's the basic reason. Lol!


Last edited by Mohandevir on 22 June 2018 at 8:44 pm UTC

Quoting: lejimsterI would love to provide apitraces for some non-functioning games I own. But I haven't had any success using that tool so far. :(

Its generally easier to do it under windows, which is why dual-boot can be quite useful. You could also install windows7 on a external SSD or fast USB driver and use that for testing and producing apitraces.

Quoting: Whitewolfe80Damn witcher 3 is almost completely playable now, thats amazing and also a little worrying that devs are seeing this progress and just saying yup we dont even need to port it we can release a wine wrapper or just not bother and the community and the wine & dxvk teams will make it playable for those guys and ms will continue to rake in the licence fees for dx12.

I'd like to remind you that the day porting isn't necessary, is the same day using Windows isn't necessary. It goes both ways.

So how does DXVK currently compare to Wine's own OGL-based DX11 support in terms of features? Is there rough parity or one is ahead?